Hope Valley Capacity Scheme updates

[Killingworth]

...and appropriate train length!




MARK

.. and the fastest when many leisure users are happy to take a little longer than commuters and business travellers.

 

[Chester1]

...and appropriate train length!




MARK

This has happened around Manchester since the pandemic but not quite enough yet. Most services through Castlefield are now either 6 x 23m or 5 x 26m. The upgrade seems to have noticable increased reliability to Hope Valley services but some people seem to have been expecting miracles. Routes involving entry into Lime Street, Castlefield, significant use of the MML and the case of some EMR services Ely, are never going to have very high reliability.

 

[Killingworth]

This has happened around Manchester since the pandemic but not quite enough yet. Most services through Castlefield are now either 6 x 23m or 5 x 26m. The upgrade seems to have noticable increased reliability to Hope Valley services but some people seem to have been expecting miracles. Routes involving entry into Lime Street, Castlefield, significant use of the MML and the case of some EMR services Ely, are never going to have very high reliability.

I'd contend that the jury should stil be out on increased reliability. Using On Time Trains data my station Dore, is showing a very small improvement. Judged over the last 6 months it came in at 2407th best out of 2634 stations for punctuality of trains. Over the last 4 weeks that had improved to 2321st, see; https://www.ontimetrains.co.uk/stations/DOR

Most of those trains are operated by Northern and are currently diverted via Stockport giving extra recovery time in both directions. That should be ensuring more eastbound on time arrivals in turn leading to fewer delayed westbound return services into Manchester.

However congestion around the single track Hazel Grove chord area may currently be adversely impacting the fast services and freight? Points failures ariud there and at Dore haven't helped in the latest 4 weeks.

We tend to concentrate on passenger trains but before the scheme was completed those with an interest in freight expressed a view that neither loop would materially help and possibly hinder their reliabilty. Freight trains do run through the Dore South chord but I've yet to see or hear of one standing on it. The Bamford loop is largely out of sight and I've not heard of any freight use although a Northern stopping srrvice has been overtaken by a fast. Do those with knowledge of freight services or signalling know how well the loops are working?

 

[GardenRail]

Do those with knowledge of freight services or signalling know how well the loops are working?

From a signalling point of view, excellent. Trains do regularly stand on the chord at Dore, usually going South waiting a path onto the MML. Its a lot easier too, now that everything fits.
Bamford, does indeed get used, but as to how much, depends on how daring Chinley is at turning late freight out, whether in front off an express, or behind. In my personal experience, I've used it more fore the late Hope Valley Stoppers, if they're 7-8 mins late at Edale in front of the Cleethorpes, I have found it worthwhile putting the stopper in the loop. If not the Cleethorpes follows it signal to signal all the way to Sheffield.

 

[Killingworth]

In my personal experience, I've used it more fore the late Hope Valley Stoppers, if they're 7-8 mins late at Edale in front of the Cleethorpes, I have found it worthwhile putting the stopper in the loop. If not the Cleethorpes follows it signal to signal all the way to Sheffield.

That may partially help explain why Northern punctuality at Dore hasn't noticeably improved. TPE late departures from Sheffield continue to blight the westbound stoppers, something the scheme can't improve.

 

[LowLevel]

That may partially help explain why Northern punctuality at Dore hasn't noticeably improved. TPE late departures from Sheffield continue to blight the westbound stoppers, something the scheme can't improve.

What isn't immediately obvious is that that particularly combination - late running TPE going west knocking Northern - then hits the whole hour's services following. There's a standard freight path behind the Northern train - if that ends up late it loses more time section to section and it is only 9 minutes ahead of the EMR service as booked by the time you get to Edale. Hit the EMR train and it loses it's path at Hazel Grove and ends up 20 late into Lime St.

 

[3RDGEN]

In the May Modern Railways summer timetable review it mentioned the handful of Reading - Newcastle (York) services will be retimed from Derby removing the current waits and that this is due to the work at Dore. For example 1E79 currently sits at Derby for 10 minutes but that is removed in the new summer timetable and hence is 20 mins earlier into Sheff and 30 minutes earlier at Newcastle.

1E79 winter timetable - "https://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/service/gb-nr:G24661/2024-05-24/detailed".

1E79 summer timetable - "https://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/service/gb-nr:C48325/2024-06-07/detailed".

Similar applies to the other few Reading services, does anyone know if this is actually a result of the Dore changes? Birmingham - Sheffield stopping Derby only in 61 mins is good going.

 

[Killingworth]

Punctuality statistics are totally ruined this morning by a tree obstructing lines somewhere near Chinley - Hazel Grove. As far as users are concerned it's all the same useless railway! They aren't much bothered about details. Some will have been stranded in limbo when trying to catch a plane from Manchester Airport. Available Uber drivers will have done well.

 

[bigbigcheese]

Nice piece in Rail Engineer detailing the whole build and bring this to something of a conclusion

 

[Mugby]

Did I imagine it or was there some talk a while ago of the Up Millhouses Loop being lengthened? It could actually be extended almost as far as Sainsburys.

Was it ever seriously considered or was it just wishful thinking? Would it offer any benefit?

 

[Dr Hoo]

Did I imagine it or was there some talk a while ago of the Up Millhouses Loop being lengthened? It could actually be extended almost as far as Sainsburys.

Was it ever seriously considered or was it just wishful thinking? Would it offer any benefit?

The loop commonly described as the Up Heeley Loop had it’s usable length increased by repositioning the exit signal (no track alterations).

 

[td97]

(no track alterations)

Actually there was an area of sleeper replacement

 

[Trainman40083]

This has happened around Manchester since the pandemic but not quite enough yet. Most services through Castlefield are now either 6 x 23m or 5 x 26m. The upgrade seems to have noticable increased reliability to Hope Valley services but some people seem to have been expecting miracles. Routes involving entry into Lime Street, Castlefield, significant use of the MML and the case of some EMR services Ely, are never going to have very high reliability.

Exactly.... indeed in the case of Liverpool to Norwich services, 90mph units might not be welcomed on the ECML as the demand for paths hots up. At Manchester Oxford Road, even 5 car trains can limit services if trains cannot use adjacent platforms

 

[GardenRail]

The loop commonly described as the Up Heeley Loop had it’s usable length increased by repositioning the exit signal (no track alterations).

And trains now going into Heeley Loop can now get flashing aspects entering the loop, making a lot quicker to enter. It used to be approach control.