Hope Valley line services in the 1970s and 80s

[AY1975]

I am fairly au fait with the service pattern on the Hope Valley route between Sheffield and Manchester from May 1979 onwards: from that date, most Manchester-Sheffield expresses continued to either Hull or Cleethorpes, and were worked by Class 123/124 "Trans-Pennine" DMUs until May 1984, then Class 31s.

That service pattern continued until May 1986, when the Hazel Grove Chord opened and most expresses on the route were Sheffield-Liverpools (which could serve Stockport for the first time), with the odd through train such as Cambridge-Blackpool or Great Yarmouth-Liverpool. These were still loco (mostly Class 31) hauled until May 1988, when the Class 156 Super Sprinters entered service and the new Liverpool-Norwich service started (which has operated ever since, albeit mostly Class 158s since about 1991/92).

But what of the service pattern between 1970 (when the Woodhead route closed to passengers) and 1979? I had always thought that in those days most Sheffield-Manchester expresses ran only between Sheffield and Manchester, and were worked by conventional DMUs such as Class 101s and 104s (although I believe the 123s started to be used on the route from about 1977 onwards). However, I have a 1972 Sheffield bus timetable book which also contains rail services, and that seems to show most Sheffield-Manchester expresses as continuing to Liverpool.

 

[Ash Bridge]

Just from memory, my recollections during the period of roughly 1972-75 are of Sheffield Midland- Manchester Piccadilly fast services being in the hands of mainly Class 110 DMUs, regarding the stopping services I remember that Eastern Region units such as Derby Class 114s operated Sheffield-New Mills/Chinley whilst LM units Worked the Manchester end to Marple/New Mills etc. The only exceptions to that would be the Harwich Boat Train (booked for a Class 37) & a summer Sat. dated Great Yarmouth which most often produced a Class 31. I do have some timetables from that era if you require some more detailed information.

 

[30907]

Neither the 71-72 nor 74-75 timetable shows any through services neyond Piccadilly and the former has an irregular pattern through the Hope Valley which would not have fitted with the hourly CLC service.
I wonder if the timetable you have was intended to show connecting services?
In fact, I don't think services across the throat at Piccadilly came in until Sprinterisation - the loco-hauleds via Preston used Victoria.

OT, I hadn't realised that the Dore South curve had a relatively good service in 71 - four daytime London semi-fasts and a similar number to Nottingham (via Derby).

 

[Bevan Price]

Summer Saturdays.
From the end of steam until 1978, the Manchester - Yarmouth service was normally a pair of Class 25s as far as Lincoln, changing there to a Class 31 or 37. From 1979 onwards, the loco change was moved to Sheffield, and the 25s had been replaced by 40s (or sometimes 45s then 47s.)

Until 1983, there was also a Manchester - Skegness usually worked by Class 40, although 37s or 47s started to appear when a lot of 40s had been withdrawn. .

Until the early 1970s, there had also been a Manchester - Cleethorpes via Gainsborough Central, also normally a Class 40.

Until about 1975, there had also been a Sheffield - Llandudno which used the Hope Valley (non-stop), usually worked by a Tinsley Class 47.

 

[daodao]

I travelled on the Hope Valley line on a number of occasions on journeys from M/c to East Anglia and back in the 1970s. I recall using the Harwich boat train as far as Ely and still have a BR publicity leaflet from this era showing a picture of a Peak class 45 hauling a rake of 10 Mark 1 coaches through the Hope Valley and giving connecting train times to principal cities in Holland and West Germany. I also used the Yarmouth-M/c train on 1 occasion, joining it at March - it was class 31 hauled and formed of compartment Mark 1 coaches. Other fast trains were generally dmus, latterly ex-Trans Pennine class 124 dmus. Using them, I had to change at Sheffield and Lincoln Central to get to East Anglia via the old GN/GE joint line.

I recall that there were a couple of through Liverpool-Sheffield trains on Sundays, but not on weekdays. The Sheffield trains generally used the ex-GC platforms (mostly 1-3) at Piccadilly and were routed via Bredbury to the Hope Valley line.

 

[Dr Hoo]

With the 1971-72 London Midland and Eastern Region timetables in front of me it is hard to summarise the timetables in those days as they were very irregular.

Without getting bogged down in details of DMU classes or locomotive types (which are not evident from the timetable anyway) I offer the following headlines:

LM local services during the day were relatively infrequent but rather better in the peaks. These ran only as far as New Mills Central, largely via the Hyde line with several two-hour gaps. There were roughly hourly services to each of Marple and Rose Hill Marple via Bredbury. So in some off-peak hours Romily only had two local trains. On the other hand there were as many as seven local trains from Manchester Piccadilly between 1700 and 1800 of which three ran to New Mills. Rolling stock utilisation must have been awful.

From the Sheffield side local services ran via the Hope Valley to Chinley (and sometimes New Mills) with two and three-hour gaps outside the peaks. Somewhat hit-and-miss connections existed at Chinley into trains via Dore South Curve but some local journeys - such as Hope to Marple - were practically impossible for much of the day.

There were around a dozen fast Sheffield-Manchester trains, almost always non-stop but on non-standard intervals, of which one was the Manchester-Harwich boat train with refreshments.

There were four St Pancras and four more Nottingham/Derby workings each way, all calling at Chesterfield and Chinley. For the fastest journeys to/from St Pancras it was usually necessary to change at Leicester or elsewhere.

There were a few extra workings on Summer Saturdays.

A couple of Sunday trains did run through between Liverpool and Sheffield.

Overall it does not give a very impressive picture of a worthy successor to regular electric services via the Woodhead route; a carefully designed package to optimise network connections and be easily comprehensible to potential passengers; an efficient resource-led timetable to minimise costs or a determined attempt to stimulate modal switch to rail in an environmentally sensitive area.

Accepting the the Midland Railway built the Hope Valley line primarily for freight (only providing relatively thin passenger services somewhat later) it is sobering to realise that today's often 'cosy' Class 185s and 158s on regional services running beyond the core route at both ends, together with Pacers and Class 150s on local services are probably by far the best timetable that the route has ever had.

 

[Bevan Price]

With the 1971-72 London Midland and Eastern Region timetables in front of me it is hard to summarise the timetables in those days as they were very irregular.

Without getting bogged down in details of DMU classes or locomotive types (which are not evident from the timetable anyway) I offer the following headlines:


There were around a dozen fast Sheffield-Manchester trains, almost always non-stop but on non-standard intervals, of which one was the Manchester-Harwich boat train with refreshments.

There were a few extra workings on Summer Saturdays.

A couple of Sunday trains did run through between Liverpool and Sheffield.

Overall it does not give a very impressive picture of a worthy successor to regular electric services via the Woodhead route; a carefully designed package to optimise network connections and be easily comprehensible to potential passengers; an efficient resource-led timetable to minimise costs or a determined attempt to stimulate modal switch to rail in an environmentally sensitive area.

Agree - using 3 car dmus on the expresses was very much a downgrade step, compared with loco-hauled stock on the Woodhead route - and I suspect probably led to loss of passengers. On jointed track, the riding qualities of Metro Cammel sets (Classes 101/111) could be almost as bad as a Pacer. Things only started to improve after the arrival of Classes 123/124 dmus and then the Mark 2 stock hauled by Class 31s.

.

 

[BucksBones]

Agree - using 3 car dmus on the expresses was very much a downgrade step, compared with loco-hauled stock on the Woodhead route - and I suspect probably led to loss of passengers. On jointed track, the riding qualities of Metro Cammel sets (Classes 101/111) could be almost as bad as a Pacer. Things only started to improve after the arrival of Classes 123/124 dmus and then the Mark 2 stock hauled by Class 31s.

.

Only a short term period of respite though! I used to travel Manchester - Sheffield in the evening peak and Sprinterisation was a disaster with 2 car 156s taking over from the 31s & mk2s. I remember the station staff used to stand on the platform yelling "THIS TRAIN DOES NOT STOP AT STOCKPORT!!" (even though it invariably did!) in an attempt to allow some more Sheffield passengers to board. Crowds of people would routinely be left behind.

 

[nw1]

I do remember seeing a 1989 timetable which had the Sheffield stoppers routed via Hyde but being more limited-stop within Greater Manchester than they have been since (I think Hyde, Romiley and then all stops) some only went as far as New Mills (I think) and others continued to Sheffield. By 1993 (not in the 70s or 80s, admittedly, but perhaps historically interesting) it had become something similar to what I believe still operates (though there seems to be an extra train each hour now):
- a New Mills or Sheffield (Sheffield every 2 hours but hourly near the peaks), not via Hyde, making most stops but missing a few in Greater Manchester (Ardwick, Ashburys, Belle Vue, Ryder Brow missed)
- an all-stations stopper to Marple, not via Hyde
- an all-stations stopper to Rose Hilll, via Hyde
This pattern remained the case through the 90s. 101s lasted a long time on this line; by 1997 it still seemed to be about 67% 101 and 33% 150 or Pacer.

 

[AY1975]

I seem to recall that for at least one timetable period in about the mid-1980s, in the Class 31 era, there was one Manchester-Sheffield express per day that continued to York (about 16.55 from Manchester Piccadilly IIRC). I remember catching that one from Manchester to Sheffield in about 1985.

I presume this was for operational convenience rather than because there was a demand for such a service - Manchester to York via Sheffield, rather than via Leeds, is a rather circuitous route, and I doubt if many passengers (apart from haulage bashers) would have travelled on this one throughout.

Does anyone know if the Manchester-Sheffield-York train ran in the Class 123/124 DMU era, or only in the Class 31 era? Which route did it take between Sheffield and York? Was there a corresponding York-Sheffield-Manchester working?

 

[Darren R]

The earliest timetable that I can find without turning the house upside down is from May 1986, which does indeed include a 1638 Manchester Piccadilly to York (Sundays excepted.) Seats could be reserved, which suggests loco-hauled stock. It called at Sheffield, Rotherham, Bolton-on-Dearne, Moorthorpe, Pontefract Baghill, Sherburn-in-Elmet, Church Fenton, Ulleskelf and arrived in York at 1857. There was also a 2045 Sundays Only Manchester Piccadilly to York that called at Sheffield, Rotherham, Pontefract Baghill, Sherburn-in-Elmet, Church Fenton and arrived in York at 2315.

I can' find anything in the opposite direction, and the service had disappeared by the following year.

 

[D5645]

There was a 31 hauled 1638 Manchester - York service on Mondays to Saturdays as you describe and it ran from May 1984 to May 1986.

The loco and stock then formed the 1935 York - Hull.

There was no reverse York to Manchester service.

The working ended with the 1986 timetable change when the Hazel Grove chord opened and services were extended to and from Liverpool Lime Street.

More information on these workings is available on the excellent www.table29.co.uk website.

 

[daikilo]

For the record, only the class 124s were actually refered to as 'Trans-Penine' units as that is what they were built for. They did not have end corridors. Although structurally very similar, the class 123s started on the Western on semi-fasts from Paddington to Oxford and Bedwyn amongst others and were later transfered to the Penine routes; they had end corridors.