Hope Valley Services In The 1970's

[RichmondCommu]

G'day everyone,

I've recently seen a picture of Edale station taken in 1973 which show's a local service from Sheffield having terminated at Edale. The DMU is in the siding next to the signal box waiting to return to Sheffield.

I'm curious to know why the service only ran as far as Edale and whether other stopping services ran the whole length of the line. I'm also interested to know whether a similar service ran from Manchester, perhaps terminating at Chinley.

Any information would be gratefully received!

Thanks in advance,

Richmond Commuter!

 

[40012Railrover]

Probably due to the stoppers being funded by South Yorkshire PTE in the East, and Greater Manchester PTE in the West.

ISTR GMPTE stoppers turned back at New Mills (although most stations could be served by trains to Rose Hill.

Cheers

Mike

 

[Welshman]

I can't remember Edale being a regular terminus for the local stoppers, so could it have been an extra service to cater for walkers, hikers, etc? Out from Sheffield in the morning, and returning later in the day?

 

[David Barrett]

Probably due to the stoppers being funded by South Yorkshire PTE in the East, and Greater Manchester PTE in the West.

ISTR GMPTE stoppers turned back at New Mills (although most stations could be served by trains to Rose Hill.

Cheers

Mike

More likely the New Mills turn back was related to the regional split of services from around 1968 onwards rather than PTE funding as, in 1973, the PTEs were only just beginning to sign up rail services for subsidy. Prior to 1968 it appears that Buxton crews and units were also involved in this service with an ECS shown in the 1967/8 Working Timetable from Buxton at 06.10 to Chinley to work the 06.45 from there to Sheffield Midland returning from Chinley at 13.55 on Saturdays after working the 12.45 from Sheffield Midland and Mondays-Fridays at 20.05 after leaving Sheffield at 18.10. There were a fair number of through Manchester and Sheffield stoppers until this time with those not running through to Manchester terminating at Chinley rather than New Mills.
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I can't remember Edale being a regular terminus for the local stoppers, so could it have been an extra service to cater for walkers, hikers, etc? Out from Sheffield in the morning, and returning later in the day?

Agreed, having checked both the 1972/3 and 1973/4 timetables there were no workings shown terminating at Edale so, as you say, an extra or perhaps shortened working because of PW works somewhere.

 

[Bevan Price]

More likely the New Mills turn back was related to the regional split of services from around 1968 onwards rather than PTE funding as, in 1973, the PTEs were only just beginning to sign up rail services for subsidy. Prior to 1968 it appears that Buxton crews and units were also involved in this service with an ECS shown in the 1967/8 Working Timetable from Buxton at 06.10 to Chinley to work the 06.45 from there to Sheffield Midland returning from Chinley at 13.55 on Saturdays after working the 12.45 from Sheffield Midland and Mondays-Fridays at 20.05 after leaving Sheffield at 18.10. There were a fair number of through Manchester and Sheffield stoppers until this time with those not running through to Manchester terminating at Chinley rather than New Mills.
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Agreed, having checked both the 1972/3 and 1973/4 timetables there were no workings shown terminating at Edale so, as you say, an extra or perhaps shortened working because of PW works somewhere.

Or perhaps it had failed...........

 

[edwin_m]

Definitely had to change at New Mills on a journey from Manchester to Hope in around 1975. I wonder if this was because the timetable hadn't been reorganised after closure of the Hayfield branch.

 

[eastwestdivide]

From the 1978 timetable:
All Hope Valley stopping services ran between Sheffield and New Mills. There were some big gaps in the service too: e.g. the M-F service from Sheffield was 0545, 0630, 0933, 1220, 1450, 1633, 1730, 1930, 2138.
Again, no Edale terminators.
The fast services mostly called at New Mills too (this is before the Hazel Grove chord route via Stockport. Most of the fasts were Hull-Manchester services. One was the Harwich/Manchester boat train, which didn't call at New Mills.
One fast service called at Chinley and not New Mills, providing a commuter service into Manchester.

 

[David Barrett]

Definitely had to change at New Mills on a journey from Manchester to Hope in around 1975. I wonder if this was because the timetable hadn't been reorganised after closure of the Hayfield branch.

Strange one this because for some time after closure in 1970 those trains which would have gone forward to Hayfield from New Mills simply terminated and then spent their layover in the branch tunnel before returning to Manchester at, more or less, the time that they would have done should they have continued to Hayfield in the first place. The practice of using the tunnel as a turn round carried on for a good number of years after the closure of the branch even though the cost of repair of this structure was given as one of the reasons for the closure by British Railways and, whilst no longer used, is still intact to this day.

The fifteen or so years since the withdrawal of passenger train services over Peak Forest has thrown up a series of complex changes to the Hope Valley line timetables and a rise in status following the 1970 diversion of through Sheffield to Manchester services away from Woodhead, prior to which it was very much a branch line with a limited stopping service and built late in the day too; a colleague once said of the Hope Valley line, and I quote without saying whether I agree or not but at the time it made a point,

"That bugger being there brought about the closure of two other lines both of which were more useful than the Hope Valley ever was".

As to the Hayfield branch, I feel certain that its closure did more harm than good as much of the traffic carried was to or from stations beyond New mills towards Manchester and, with two manned signal boxes, staffed stations and possibly crossing keepers on the branch there was still much that could have been done to make its operation more economical.
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Or perhaps it had failed...........

Indeed, the possibilities are many and varied and, given the slim nature of 1970s special traffic notices, highly likely.

 

[nw1]

Strange one this because for some time after closure in 1970 those trains which would have gone forward to Hayfield from New Mills simply terminated and then spent their layover in the branch tunnel before returning to Manchester at, more or less, the time that they would have done should they have continued to Hayfield in the first place. The practice of using the tunnel as a turn round carried on for a good number of years after the closure of the branch even though the cost of repair of this structure was given as one of the reasons for the closure by British Railways and, whilst no longer used, is still intact to this day.

The fifteen or so years since the withdrawal of passenger train services over Peak Forest has thrown up a series of complex changes to the Hope Valley line timetables and a rise in status following the 1970 diversion of through Sheffield to Manchester services away from Woodhead, prior to which it was very much a branch line with a limited stopping service and built late in the day too; a colleague once said of the Hope Valley line, and I quote without saying whether I agree or not but at the time it made a point,

"That bugger being there brought about the closure of two other lines both of which were more useful than the Hope Valley ever was".

As to the Hayfield branch, I feel certain that its closure did more harm than good as much of the traffic carried was to or from stations beyond New mills towards Manchester and, with two manned signal boxes, staffed stations and possibly crossing keepers on the branch there was still much that could have been done to make its operation more economical.
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Indeed, the possibilities are many and varied and, given the slim nature of 1970s special traffic notices, highly likely.

Re. the Hope Valley, it's certainly useful from the POV of visits to the Peak District. It sounds like in the 1970s if you wanted to get from say Manchester to Edale you had to change at New Mills? Woodhead was basically before my time but I'd agree it was silly to close - the more capacity between the North West and Yorkshire the better.

Hayfield is another of those examples which was silly to close. It appears that it didn't require any extra units (just an extension of the New Mills stopper), it is (IIRC - last visited in the late 90s) a fairly decent-sized place, close to a centre of work, hence commuter traffic (Manchester) and with tourist interest (one of the routes up Kinder Scout leaves from there). The 1970s Beeching closures seemed to be the silliest of the lot, why they didn't kill the whole harebrained plan with the turn of the decade I don't know!

 

[David Barrett]

Re. the Hope Valley, it's certainly useful from the POV of visits to the Peak District. It sounds like in the 1970s if you wanted to get from say Manchester to Edale you had to change at New Mills? Woodhead was basically before my time but I'd agree it was silly to close - the more capacity between the North West and Yorkshire the better.

Hayfield is another of those examples which was silly to close. It appears that it didn't require any extra units (just an extension of the New Mills stopper), it is (IIRC - last visited in the late 90s) a fairly decent-sized place, close to a centre of work, hence commuter traffic (Manchester) and with tourist interest (one of the routes up Kinder Scout leaves from there). The 1970s Beeching closures seemed to be the silliest of the lot, why they didn't kill the whole harebrained plan with the turn of the decade I don't know!

Indeed, the Hope Valley Line is very useful for leisure travel to the Peak District but then, with stations at Rowsley, Bakewell, Monsal Dale and Millers Dale so was the Peak Forest Route. The withdrawal of passenger services from Matlock Northwards rendered a significant patch of the area out of bounds by rail from large centres of population in the North West and Midlands.

Perhaps the Woodhead Route was doomed with the decision to concentrate all traffic in Sheffield at Midland. After the withdrawal of through daytime services to Marylebone around 1959/60 and the opening of Aldwarke and Nunnery Junctions in the mid 1960s leaving all but the Woodhead services, a few overnight trains and the odd Lincolnshire trip Victoria had little left to justify itself and the Manchester service was effectively an isolated operation in the city.

Oddly enough the total withdrawal of passenger services over Woodhead was not envisaged according to some accounts. It has been said that there was some thought given to running a Piccadilly to Penistone EMU service to connect with the Huddersfield to Sheffield DMUs and trials were conducted, but with long periods of non-stop running there were problems with overheating of equipment so the idea was not taken any further.

 

[Bevan Price]

From 1965/1966 timetable, Sheffield departures on Hope Valley line (M-F) were:
06:06 (C), 07:03 (MC), 07:50 (MC*), 09:39 (C), 12:45 (C), 16:34 (C), 17:30 (MC), 18:10 (C), 19:02 (MC), 21:22 (C), where
C = Chinley;
MC = Manchester Central via New Mills Central & Stockport Tiviot Dale
MC* = Manchester Central (fast from Chinley)


From the 1972/1973 timetable, the local service was fairly similar to that for 1978 quoted above by eastwestdivide. About half the fast trains called at New Mills Central, and most were just dmu shuttles between Sheffield & Manchester, with just 2 originating at Cleethorpes. There were 2 through services between St. Pancras & Manchester, also calling at New Mills Central. Other loco hauled trains were the Harwich - Manchester boat train, and some summer saturday services from Skegness & Yarmouth to Manchester.