How broken does a bus need to be before it can't go out?

[Geordie driver]

We don't have a big book, we have defect cards we fill in

My mistake, I should have said every depot I have worked in.

 

[PG]

bus to be reported as defective during the day for minor stuff like the bell not working

As far as I'm aware that is not classified as a minor defect and is an immediate prohibition.

 

[Eyersey468]

My mistake, I should have said every depot I have worked in.

No problem

 

[Leyland Bus]

overkill, bus windows are laminated, two sheets of glass sandwiching a plastic sheet so not risk. It is, or was legal to run providing the crack does not run from edge to edge of the screen or does not affect the drivers vision.

Not technically correct.
Windscreens are laminated. Side windows can be single glazed (especially if of gasket fitment) but must be safety glass... So it is not overkill for the vehicle to be brought off the road.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 21 Feb 2022 ==

Theres company / legal standards and then there's the standards of the person in the garage who decides if the bus is fit for service, and the pressure on the engineering department at 'run out'.

Cold buses usually put on school runs

Electric faults as described by OP probably put on schools

Buses with engines knackered leaking oil (but legal) probably put on peak only boards until labour available for engine overhaul

One garage I worked at in Manchester, we used to keep the cold bus as a spare to ward off drivers trying to pull a fast one, trying to miss a trip! (Surprising how effective this can be) Said bus was also slow and rattled ridiculously!

We also used to occasionally "test" drivers on how serious their defect actually was... When far away from the depot, certain drivers would magically breakdown, hoping to miss a trip (usually their last run) and run back private. Cue "the breakdown van is on the other side of town and a recovery lorry will be about 3 hours getting to you"... You'd be surprised how many buses were suddenly fixed by themselves and they carried on..! You'll have also guessed that I work in engineering! Lol!

 

[py_megapixel]

We also used to occasionally "test" drivers on how serious their defect actually was... When far away from the depot, certain drivers would magically breakdown, hoping to miss a trip (usually their last run) and run back private. Cue "the breakdown van is on the other side of town and a recovery lorry will be about 3 hours getting to you"... You'd be surprised how many buses were suddenly fixed by themselves and they carried on..! You'll have also guessed that I work in engineering! Lol!

If that's true, it's honestly disgraceful that bus drivers are happy to simply not bother provide the service if it means they get home a bit earlier. The phrasing "certain drivers" suggests they did this habitually, or at least several times - how on earth were they not sacked?

 

[Bletchleyite]

overkill, bus windows are laminated, two sheets of glass sandwiching a plastic sheet so not risk. It is, or was legal to run providing the crack does not run from edge to edge of the screen or does not affect the drivers vision.

All of them? On a car the windscreen (and possibly rear windscreen) are laminated, whereas side windows are toughened so they are easy to break (and break into small, non-sharp "beads") in an emergency.

 

[py_megapixel]

All of them? On a car the windscreen (and possibly rear windscreen) are laminated, whereas side windows are toughened so they are easy to break (and break into small, non-sharp "beads") in an emergency.

Aren't buses are generally provided with steel hammers with which to break the windows? This might mean you can have a stronger window and still have it safe in an evacuation

 

[Whistler40145]

Much depends on the state of the economy. In a desperate enough environment you always can ignore windows without glass, doors that won't close.
View attachment 110302

I wonder how far this quality vehicle would get!

 

[Leyland Bus]

If that's true, it's honestly disgraceful that bus drivers are happy to simply not bother provide the service if it means they get home a bit earlier. The phrasing "certain drivers" suggests they did this habitually, or at least several times - how on earth were they not sacked?

Oh it's absolutely true! Most large garages have a reasonable turn over of drivers so you'll always get some that don't really like working!

I remember going out to a driver miles away from depot because the bus wouldn’t start. Upon arriving, the mostly plastic bonnet switch was in several pieces on the floor and the wires pulled out! Hardly happened by itself!

One day I'll write a book about it all!

 

[175mph]

Early this evening at Hull Interchange, I saw a Stagecoach double decker get taken out of service because the CCTV was only working on the lower deck and not the upper deck.

 

[PG]

Early this evening at Hull Interchange, I saw a Stagecoach double decker get taken out of service because the CCTV was only working on the lower deck and not the upper deck.

Quite correctly as otherwise the driver has no means of supervising passengers on the upper deck, assuming the bus in question wasn't fitted with a periscope.

 

[Gostav]

I wonder how far this quality vehicle would get!

It was a short trolley bus line between town and colliery, a few kilometers long l think. The strange roof behind the trolleybus was the ticket office but it's completely closed.

 

[philthetube]

Certainly the big OPs are quite (overly) cautious with this. Your mileage may vary with smaller ops. I was once (about 7 years ago) on a First X78 bus Doncaster-Sheffield when a chip & small crack appeared in one of the windows presumably downstairs from roadside debris. I was on the top deck at the time. We had to alight at a roadside junction and wait to be squeezed onto the next one.

Not technically correct.
Windscreens are laminated. Side windows can be single glazed (especially if of gasket fitment) but must be safety glass... So it is not overkill for the vehicle to be brought off the road.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 21 Feb 2022 ==

Side windows are genrally toughened, as anyone who has seen a stone thrown through one can testify. They must not be able to crack as if they could it would be possible to end up with people being cut should it break, they are normally toughened but can be laminated.

The initial post about windows did sat that it was caused by road debris which would be very unlikely to damage bus sides.

 

[Geordie driver]

Not technically correct.
Windscreens are laminated. Side windows can be single glazed (especially if of gasket fitment) but must be safety glass... So it is not overkill for the vehicle to be brought off the road.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 21 Feb 2022 ==


One garage I worked at in Manchester, we used to keep the cold bus as a spare to ward off drivers trying to pull a fast one, trying to miss a trip! (Surprising how effective this can be) Said bus was also slow and rattled ridiculously!

We also used to occasionally "test" drivers on how serious their defect actually was... When far away from the depot, certain drivers would magically breakdown, hoping to miss a trip (usually their last run) and run back private. Cue "the breakdown van is on the other side of town and a recovery lorry will be about 3 hours getting to you"... You'd be surprised how many buses were suddenly fixed by themselves and they carried on..! You'll have also guessed that I work in engineering! Lol!

In my experience, the last run is the most important one for getting back on time, if their bus was suitable for running back light then why would they need to wait for the fitters to come out?

Buses that are cold, slow and rattle should be fixed, surely, not kept in that condition to punish drivers and, by extension, passengers?

Only kidding, I know how the industry works and sending out a vehicle in that condition is seen as perfectly reasonable. No wonder it is in trouble.

Our company would routinely send out buses with orders not to switch it off as it probably wouldn't start. Not suitable for service as a driver has to be able to !eave his vehicle and he can't leave it running.

Some drivers would wait until they were as far away as possible from the depot then, by some quirk of fate, the engine would cut out. They wouldn't do this on their last run, far more likely on their first run.

 

[Leyland Bus]

In my experience, the last run is the most important one for getting back on time, if their bus was suitable for running back light then why would they need to wait for the fitters to come out?

Buses that are cold, slow and rattle should be fixed, surely, not kept in that condition to punish drivers and, by extension, passengers?

Only kidding, I know how the industry works and sending out a vehicle in that condition is seen as perfectly reasonable. No wonder it is in trouble.

Our company would routinely send out buses with orders not to switch it off as it probably wouldn't start. Not suitable for service as a driver has to be able to !eave his vehicle and he can't leave it running.

Some drivers would wait until they were as far away as possible from the depot then, by some quirk of fate, the engine would cut out. They wouldn't do this on their last run, far more likely on their first run.

It'll probably be the same for a lot of places.

We once had a bus that wouldn't select reverse, so eventually traffic kept routing it to a bus station that was saw-toothed knowing it would get stuck, to try and coerce engineering into fixing it...

I've loads of examples hence I'm considering writing a book. There are quite a few from drivers about life on the road but few, if any in fact, from "the other side"

 

[PG]

I've loads of examples hence I'am considering writing a book. There are quite afew from drivers about life on the road but few, if any infact, from "the otherside"

It'd certainly be an interesting read to hear tales from the fitters / mechanics side of bus operation. Let us know when you get round to it

 

[Leyland Bus]

It'd certainly be an interesting read to hear tales from the fitters / mechanics side of bus operation. Let us know when you get round to it

Thanks, I shall

 

[richw]

The 'switch it off and on again' philosophy often gets laughed at (I used to have to deal with peoples' mobile phone issues), but much of the time it does work!

Think of when your phone freezes, a full shut down or restart normally unfreezes the issue, or going back 10 years we’d just pop the battery out and back in.
Likewise with a vehicle, a full shut down and restart with battery isolation can cure an electronic or sensor freeze. I would say as a driver it’s successful probably 75% of the time.
Most buses have a master power switch on the dash which isolates the battery.

 

[dan5324]

If that's true, it's honestly disgraceful that bus drivers are happy to simply not bother provide the service if it means they get home a bit earlier. The phrasing "certain drivers" suggests they did this habitually, or at least several times - how on earth were they not sacked?

Oh come on! Don’t be so naive. I’d say a significant proportion of drivers turn up simply to get paid. They don’t care about running the Service. And why should they? They aren’t paid greatly and are trodden on at virtually every opportunity, from the public, bus station staff, revenue protection and management. Not saying it’s right. But acting like you’re surprised is quite amusing.

 

[py_megapixel]

Oh come on! Don’t be so naive. I’d say a significant proportion of drivers turn up simply to get paid. They don’t care about running the Service. And why should they? They aren’t paid greatly and are trodden on at virtually every opportunity, from the public, bus station, staff, revenue protection and management. Not saying it’s right. But acting like you’re surprised is quite amusing.

I'm not really that surprised that they would be doing this - I just think it's disgraceful, whatever the cause.
I should clarify that I don't want to place all the blame on the drivers here, given they are often not treated well.

What I am surprised about on the other hand that this sort of behaviour is expected and sometimes seemingly just accepted.

 

[dan5324]

I'm not really that surprised that they would be doing this - I just think it's disgraceful, whatever the cause.
I should clarify that I don't want to place all the blame on the drivers here, given they are often not treated well.

What I am surprised about on the other hand that this sort of behaviour is expected and sometimes seemingly just accepted.

It’s where the industry is in general. Where it’s been for a while. And I can’t ever see it improving.

 

[GusB]

Could we stick to the topic, please? How well or badly drivers are treated is not relevant to this thread. Thanks

 

[Tempest3K]

I wonder how far this quality vehicle would get!

Doesn't look much worse than some First buses I've seen out in service.......

 

[Islineclear3_1]

I’ve even seen Stagecoach take a bus out of service simply because the ticket machine wasn’t working.

Suppose this depends on location. I have often been on buses running out of Catford Garage (London), operated by Stagecoach where the ticket machines/oyster card readers has failed and got a free ride.

 

[Geordie driver]

Regarding ticket machines being out of order, this was a big no no. Revenue is everything and even if it is out of order drivers have, or at least had, emergency tickets they could issue. A little book they wrote tickets in. Even if they didn't send the service out, chances are the passengers missed will be getting the same company's bus, so no loss of revenue in the short term. Emergency tickets meant you would be very late as it takes forever.

Modern electronic machines are very prone to jamming, not that I would know anything about that.

Regarding drivers deliberately damaging their own bus to get it off the road, I have never heard or seen any evidence of that and I passed my PSV test in 1985. You would be looking at instant dismissal. I have seen some drivers pull some pretty stupid stunts, but never this.

In any case, as said up thread, a bus deliberately left in a poor condition is often kept as the reserve bus to persuade drivers not to ask for a change over. I would rather have a warm smooth fast bus with an interior light out than a cold, rattly slow bus.

Strange way to run a service industry.

 

[richw]

As far as I'm aware that is not classified as a minor defect and is an immediate prohibition.

As far as a stop bell not working, it has two classifications.
If the driver is in a separate compartment (eg a old half cab type bus) it’s an immediate prohibition.
If the driver is in the same compartment (most modern buses) it’s not even a delayed prohibition.

 

[py_megapixel]

As far as a stop bell not working, it has two classifications.
If the driver is in a separate compartment (eg a old half cab type bus) it’s an immediate prohibition.
If the driver is in the same compartment (most modern buses) it’s not even a delayed prohibition.

I take it that the driver being separated from passengers by a full-height assault screen to their left and a wall behind them, such as on most Stagecoach buses, not count as a separate compartment then

 

[richw]

I take it that the driver being separated from passengers by a full-height assault screen to their left and a wall behind them, such as on most Stagecoach buses, not count as a separate compartment then

No it doesn’t. As it still simple for the passenger to communicate to the driver

 

[Dai Corner]

No it doesn’t. As it still simple for the passenger to communicate to the driver

"Passengers must not stand forward of this point or speak to the driver whilst the vehicle is in motion" as the signs (used to?) say.

 

[Geordie driver]

We are getting lost in pedantry.

If I was checking a bus before it's first use and the bell didn't work, I wouldn't take it out. Some drivers would. Some drivers wouldn't even check.

Were I to ring up an hours service run from the depot to report a bell out of order, they would expect me to complete that hours service, not bring it back light or send me a bus with the bell working.

Bus companies are only interested in " the rules" when it works in their favour.

I was once asked to take a bus out with no wipers as " it doesn't look like it's going to rain".