How clever is Oyster?

[Bob M]

If I have a season ticket for a journey in London not including zone 1, say I have a zone 2-6 ticket, and I travel from zone 5 to zone 1, is Oyster clever enough to use the season to zone 2 and then charge me just for zone 2 to zone 1 on PAYG?

 

[Chris-P]

If I have a season ticket for a journey in London not including zone 1, say I have a zone 2-6 ticket, and I travel from zone 5 to zone 1, is Oyster clever enough to use the season to zone 2 and then charge me just for zone 2 to zone 1 on PAYG?

yes, though as of the 2nd of Jan, you will need to get an oyster extension permit (available at any oyster ticket machine) to enable you to do this.

 

[Bob M]

Can you explain a bit more how this works (after 2nd Jan)? Do I have to do this on each journey?

 

[Chris-P]

Can you explain a bit more how this works (after 2nd Jan)? Do I have to do this on each journey?

From what I gather, you can go to any place that sells travelcards or oyster top ups and ask for an "oyster extension permit", it's free, this basically means that instead of the default travelcard behaviour of no charge when you touch in/out, you get the max charge (as you do with payg) when you touch in and then the correct fare is calculated on touch out (so if you touch in at a station in zone 5 and touch out in zone 1, while you have a zone 2-5 travelcard, you'll be charged a zone 1 single fare when you touch out until it reaches the cap). When you have an oyster extension permit you MUST touch IN AND OUT on any journeys you make, the permit is valid for 1 out of travelcard journey, you must then get another one loaded onto your oyster card when you wish to make another journey out of zone

 

[Bob M]

Gosh, how awful! Seems to defeat the whole purpose of Oyster if I have to go and get a ticket.

 

[Chris-P]

Gosh, how awful! Seems to defeat the whole purpose of Oyster if I have to go and get a ticket.

yeah, it was bought in at the request of fare dogers (mainly, if someone touches in, with a Z1-2 season tickets, then gets off in zone 3, without touching out, they travel, in effect for free, but by charging the max fare unless one touches out, they can't escape being charged)

 

[Surreytraveller]

It seems like Oyster's going to go down the pan from January. It's going to be a complete disaster on National Rail when they start accepting it. Wait and see...
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

yes, though as of the 2nd of Jan, you will need to get an oyster extension permit (available at any oyster ticket machine) to enable you to do this.

Looking at this tfl site:

http://www.tfl.gov.uk/tickets/oysteronline/13727.aspx

You only need an OEP if you're travelling on National Rail (but not Overground, even though that is part of NR...).


The map linked to on that site is also confusing, as it gives the impression by stating 'towards Hemel Hempstead etc' you can use Oyster outside the zones on those routes as far as mentioned.

You thought railway ticketing was complicated? Its about to get a whole lot worse...

 

[Chris-P]

It seems like Oyster's going to go down the pan from January. It's going to be a complete disaster on National Rail when they start accepting it. Wait and see...
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---


Looking at this tfl site:

http://www.tfl.gov.uk/tickets/oysteronline/13727.aspx

You only need an OEP if you're travelling on National Rail (but not Overground, even though that is part of NR...).


The map linked to on that site is also confusing, as it gives the impression by stating 'towards Hemel Hempstead etc' you can use Oyster outside the zones on those routes as far as mentioned.

You thought railway ticketing was complicated? Its about to get a whole lot worse...

Ah yes, seems you're right (Overground may be part of NR, but it's owned/operated by TFL, so they don't require them)

 

[Helvellyn]

Well firstly, just to clarify something (and which the OP states he has anyway), you must have a Travelcard on your Oyster card, plus sufficient PAYG credit. All examples below are based on someone with a Z12 Travelcard, plus PAYG.

You don't need an Oyster Extension Permit (OEP) if you're start your journey in Zone 3 and touch in. The Oyster card will take an entry charge. When touching out in Zone 1, it knows that you have a Z12 Travelcard, so credits the entry charge back to you, then charges for the journey from Z3 to Z2.

If you're travelling to Hounslow from Waterloo from 2 January, and don't have an OEP, you could be liable for a Penalty Fare once you go beyond Zone 2, the validity of your Travelcard. The reason for this is that an OEP is effectively an electronic Permit to Travel. It tells rail staff that you intended to travel beyond the validity of your Travelcard, and that you will touch out at Whitton. When you do so, you'll be charged for the journey from boundary Zone 2 to Whitton. Without an OEP you could just get off the train and not touch out at Whitton, thus avoiding your fare.

As has been said, OEPs are being introduced because the National Rail stations in the London Fares Zones are not all gated, so it's to assist in allowing enforcement of revenue protection policies.

An OEP can also be bought online.

 

[Bill Badger]

The reason for this is that an OEP is effectively an electronic Permit to Travel. It tells rail staff that you intended to travel beyond the validity of your Travelcard, and that you will touch out at Whitton. When you do so, you'll be charged for the journey from boundary Zone 2 to Whitton. Without an OEP you could just get off the train and not touch out at Whitton, thus avoiding your fare.

As has been said, OEPs are being introduced because the National Rail stations in the London Fares Zones are not all gated, so it's to assist in allowing enforcement of revenue protection policies.

An OEP can also be bought online.

What's to stop someone getting an OEP and still not touch out at the other end; then just keep the OEP until they are inspected?

 

[Helvellyn]

What's to stop someone getting an OEP and still not touch out at the other end; then just keep the OEP until they are inspected?

Nothing. But staff reading Oyster cards will look at things like last few uses, when an OEP was added, etc.

 

[robbob700]

What's to stop someone getting an OEP and still not touch out at the other end; then just keep the OEP until they are inspected?

If you touch in but do not touch out, you will be charged the maximum cash fare.

 

[Bill Badger]

If you touch in but do not touch out, you will be charged the maximum cash fare.

Ah thanks that makes sense. So if you add an OEP to your Travelcard 'just in case' you might need it at some point, you have to ensure you touch in and out everytime you travel, within the area your Travelcard is valid for.

I can see this causing problems where someone with a Travelcard who doesn't usually bother to touch out at an ungatted station, forgets.

Presumably all stations in the Travelcard area now have to have access to validators at all times then, as I thought some of them are in station booking offices & waiting rooms and not always accessible?

 

[button_boxer]

Ah thanks that makes sense. So if you add an OEP to your Travelcard 'just in case' you might need it at some point, you have to ensure you touch in and out everytime you travel, within the area your Travelcard is valid for.

You don't add one 'just in case', the OEP only works for the next journey you make after adding it. If you want to make another journey beyond your travelcard you have to add another OEP.

 

[GodAtum]

Can I travel on 1st class with an Oyster PAYG?

 

[Bill Badger]

You don't add one 'just in case', the OEP only works for the next journey you make after adding it. If you want to make another journey beyond your travelcard you have to add another OEP.

But what would happen if you're unable to get an OEP when you want to travel? Many NR Stations aren't selling them and at certain times of day, such as early morning, late evening or Sunday , you may not be able to find an Oystercard Agent open.

The system does seem rather user unfriendly.

 

[button_boxer]

But what would happen if you're unable to get and OEP when you want to travel? many NR Stations aren't selling them and at certain times of day, such as early morning, late evening or Sunday , you may not be able to find an Oystercard Agent open.

The stsyem does seem rather user unfriendly.

Apologies, on further reading it seems you can in fact load one in advance and it will stay on your card until the first time you touch out-of-zone. After that you'll need another one. But if you have an OEP on your card you need to touch in and out properly at all times, even when travelling within your travelcard zones.

 

[John @ home]

on further reading it seems ...

Are these rules in the public domain? If so, can you please post a link? Thanks.

 

[Dolive22]

GodAtum, I would think that you can't use first class oyster PAYG. The system and charging structure is built for single class tube, bus etc. not 2 class National Rail. It will cover NR in the travelcard zone, so I would assume that it would allow you to use the same class as a travelcard, Standard.

I have 2 questions of my own.

1. Would this still apply if you had a travelcard loaded covering all the zones you could travel on from where you touched in?
2. Would it still apply if you had a travelcard for Z1-9+ Watford Junction?