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How close does a replacement bus stop need to be to a station?

williamn

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Catching a replacement bus tonight (luckily in the opposite direction to Tunbridge Wells) this evening I was surprised to see this sign, directing northbound passengers to a stop a 30 minute walk away, uphill, on a road mostly unlit.

It seems…unreasonable?!

Image my own.
 

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800001

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Catching a replacement bus tonight (luckily in the opposite direction to Tunbridge Wells) this evening I was surprised to see this sign, directing northbound passengers to a stop a 30 minute walk away, uphill, on a road mostly unlit.

It seems…unreasonable?!
Why is it suspended? Issue with the road? Access issue? Would a bus get to that station? Is it actually rail replacement it is on about?
 

Starmill

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The phrase "onward bus connection" implies a stage carriage service to me, because you wouldn't have trains starting and terminating at Wadhurst.
 

williamn

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Why is it suspended? Issue with the road? Access issue? Would a bus get to that station? Is it actually rail replacement it is on about?
No idea, my bus in the opposite direction was fine!

There’s barely any local bus service on a Sunday so that would be even worse!
 

alistairlees

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This is very strange. Wadhurst station is on the Tunbridge Wells-bound side of the road, and is easily served by RRBs. They just drive straight up the access road then out the other (it's a one way system, but it's in a more-or-less straight line and no tricky manouevres with a bus are required). It's also safe for passengers; the bus stops right outside the station building, on the access road, away from the main road.

In the southbound direction the bus has to stop on tha main road. There is a small busstop layby. Passengers then have to cross rthe main road to get to the car park to get picked up.

Unless they were running buses through the station car park southbound (i.e. in the wrong direction)?
 

williamn

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The southbound buses (which I took) were coming into the station. But usually RRB’s in both directions use the stop directly outside the station building.
 

Lewisham2221

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It appears to be relating to Stagecoach service 1066 (or at least that's what the timetable that the notice has been stuck over suggests), rather than a rail replacement. Not familiar with the area, but assuming it's this:

Road Closure - A229 Highgate Hill, Hawkhurst
07 May 2025 to 30 Jun 2025
The A229 Highgate Hill in Hawkhurst is due to be closed from Friday 9th May until at least Saturday 28th June.

During this time buses will be unable to serve Hawkhurst Moor and Highgate Hill and will be diverted as follows:
 

williamn

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It appears to be relating to Stagecoach service 1066 (or at least that's what the timetable that the notice has been stuck over suggests), rather than a rail replacement. Not familiar with the area, but assuming it's this:

I think you’re right! Confusing as it’s only RRB’s that stop at this bus stop (despite the timetable behind).
 

30907

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Slightly OT, but Googlemaps has two Cowden station double-arrows: one on the main road for RRBs, one at the station. The RRB stop is considerably nearer the village, though not by 1.5miles....
 

700007

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Near a bunch of sheds that aren't 66s.
Slightly OT, but Googlemaps has two Cowden station double-arrows: one on the main road for RRBs, one at the station. The RRB stop is considerably nearer the village, though not by 1.5miles...
Cowden was to do with the fact that the road going up to the station was so narrow that generally nothing bigger than a bread van could be used. At the same time, if an oncoming vehicle came in the opposite direction, it would create a very awkward situation! Stopping at the crossroads allows for slightly larger single deckers to be used and as you say is much closer to the village which is where the few punters who do want Cowden probably wish to go.

Same thing is observed at Hever where the actual station is inaccessible by buses so the buses stop quite some distance away at a 'lay by' by Brocas Farm. Always a favourite of mine on Rail Replacement especially at night. There's many rural places on the rail network but there's something about Hever and especially Brocas Farm that truly felt sometimes as 'rural as it gets'!
 

pokemonsuper9

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Smallbrook Junction is infinitely far from the RRB stop (there's no exit to the station other than by train)

More seriously, Dovey Junction's RRB stop must be quite far from the platforms.
 

Egg Centric

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Catching a replacement bus tonight (luckily in the opposite direction to Tunbridge Wells) this evening I was surprised to see this sign, directing northbound passengers to a stop a 30 minute walk away, uphill, on a road mostly unlit.

It seems…unreasonable?!

Without saying this is in any sense a legal entitlement, my personal view is that if that is an unreasonable walk for whatever reason (e.g. luggage) then the passenger would count as have accessibility issues (that doesn't just mean disability) and could call up south eastern for an alternative solution.

Having looked at a map now for actual scale, that's a totally unreasonable walk with luggage!
 

cjw714

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The Rail Replacement Bus stop for Avoncliff is about a mile of road walking from the station although you can take a short cut through the woods.
 

norbitonflyer

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In some cases the RRB stop is more conveniently located for passengers than the station is, in which case why not. I noticed yetserday that there is a RRB stop for Kew Gardens station on the main road, right outside the main entrance to the Gardens, and not outside the station on the parallel street 200 yards away. This is probably more convenient for intending passengers, and also is less inconvenient for passengers not wanting Kew Gardens station as the end to end time of the RRB will be reduced.

However, the ideal arrangement was on our first trip to Austria. A schienenersatzverkehr(*) was in operation on the Innsbruck to Scharnitz route - the bus stuck to the main road but some of the stations were much higher up the mountainside, above the villages, and not accessible by anything as big as a bus. This was quite convenient for most passengers, but not for us, as the walk we planned to do started at Hochzirl station and went on up, and an additional 1000 foot climb at the beginning of the walk would not have been welcome - especially as it was pouring with rain, and we were running late as our flight had been delayed, and it was already mid-afternoon.

Without us having to ask, a taxi was waiting at Zirl for any passengers actually wanting Hochzirl station.

(*) translation hint - the word "ersatz" can be found in the middle of that word!
 

Bletchleyite

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Without saying this is in any sense a legal entitlement, my personal view is that if that is an unreasonable walk for whatever reason (e.g. luggage) then the passenger would count as have accessibility issues (that doesn't just mean disability) and could call up south eastern for an alternative solution.

Having looked at a map now for actual scale, that's a totally unreasonable walk with luggage!

There are potentially cases where it's more convenient - an RRB can potentially stop closer to the village the station serves when the station is way outside it. It can be a win-win.

Altnabreac (which wouldn't get rail replacement at all*) is probably the most extreme one, second most extreme is probably Berney Arms (which I believe once got an RNLI operated rail replacement boat after a family with young kids ended up stranded there after a cancellation). Corrour is probably up there too though I don't know exactly how far that is from a public road (there is presumably as per Altnabreac 4x4 access to the hostel for the warden, as there is at all those remote hostels I've been to e.g. Skiddaw House and Black Sail).

* Though I would love to see how much that couple would whinge were a full sized double decker coach to show up at their garden gate and insist on access to the platform area.
 

Llandudno

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Perhaps we could do with a new thread…

Furtherest Rail Replacement Bus Stop from Rail Station….

A few contenders could be:

Cromford
Entwistle
Dent
Berney Arms
 

norbitonflyer

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In some cases the RRB stop is more conveniently located for passengers than the station is, in which case why not. I noticed yetserday that there is a RRB stop for Kew Gardens station on the main road, right outside the main entrance to the Gardens, and not outside the station on the parallel street 200 yards away. This is probably more convenient for intending passengers, and also is less inconvenient for passengers not wanting Kew Gardens station as the end to end time of the RRB will be reduced.

However, the ideal arrangement was on our first trip to Austria. A schienenersatzverkehr(*) was in operation on the Innsbruck to Scharnitz route - the bus stuck to the main road but some of the stations were much higher up the mountainside, above the villages. This was quite convenient for most passengers, but not for us, as the walk we planned to do started at station and went on up, and an additional

(*) translation hint - the word "ersatz" can be found in the middle of that word!
 

pokemonsuper9

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Just remembered that sometimes when running late (and when the bridge was shut) buses served the town centre in Hindley rather than the station, about half a mile uphill
 

AlastairFraser

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A notorious example of this must be the Chapel-en-le-Frith RRB stop, on the High Street in the middle of the large village/small town the best part of a mile down the hill from Chapel station!

The stop is quite close to the old Chapel (Midland) station, but it has caused quite a bit of confusion in the past, with passengers waiting near the station.
 

Teds

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GA have an answer for the inaccessible stations - the RRB doesn't serve them! I didn't say it was a good answer. In the much reviled days of NXEA, they would offer a taxi called via the help point. This certainly applied to Gunton (on the Sheringham line) and there were others that I can't remember.
Occasionally, a temporary stop has to put in because of road works which has to be much further away the is ideal.
 

Abelfromtamim

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Great discussion! From my experience with Northern Rail disruptions last winter:
  • Absolute max should be 200m for accessibility compliance (PSVAR regs), but practically, anything over 100m causes chaos during peak hours. Saw this at Leeds when buses stopped near City Square—mobility scooter users struggled badly on cobbles.
  • Best practice?
    • Terminal stations: Use existing bus interchanges (e.g., Victoria Coach Station for London Victoria).
    • Rural stops: Temporary hardstanding within 50m (Network Rail did this well at Aviemore during flooding).
    • TFL’s ‘Wayfinder’ system: Staff with flags guiding to stops <75m away—cuts confusion by 80% based on their data.
  • Hidden snag: Drivers often refuse ‘unofficial’ stops near stations due to insurance risks. Had this at Crewe—buses had to use Nantwich Road (350m away) despite a closer layby.
Ultimately, if it’s not step-free and signed within sightlines of the station entrance, it’s failing passengers. The 2019 ORR report agrees [p. 32].
Catching a replacement bus tonight (luckily in the opposite direction to Tunbridge Wells) this evening I was surprised to see this sign, directing northbound passengers to a stop a 30 minute walk away, uphill, on a road mostly unlit.

It seems…unreasonable?!
 

Skipness

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Perhaps we could do with a new thread…

Furtherest Rail Replacement Bus Stop from Rail Station….

A few contenders could be:

Cromford
Entwistle
Dent
Berney Arms
In the case of Cromford the RRB stop is way more convenient for the village than the remote (down an unlit road and over a narrow bridge) than the railway station.
 

styles

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I've followed this thread briefly.

But coming back to the original point, I wonder where the line is drawn regarding a rail replacement bus service including railway station to bus stop transfer time causing a delay.

Let's say the walk to the bus stop takes me 20 minutes, because I have a hip problem and walk at 2.5kmph, but under normal circumstances I'd be catching a train on the same platform with negligible walking - is that not too far? I'd hope compensation would kick in, but does it happen in reality? Bearing in mind the people who deal with accessibility barriers regularly enough that they don't raise complaints for every issue.

It strikes me as odd that we're justifying some of these as just a short walk, when it's maybe 30+ minutes down a single lane road with no footpath of street lighting. The number of stations which can't be served by at least a minibus/people carrier must be vanishingly small (and possibly entirely contained to the Highlands?)
 

Llandudno

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In the case of Cromford the RRB stop is way more convenient for the village than the remote (down an unlit road and over a narrow bridge) than the railway station.
Unless you are staying in the holiday cottage on the disused Derby bound platform….!
 

steamybrian

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Some other stations in the South East where the replacement bus stops are a long way from the station -as far as know- unless the situation has changed in recent years-
Winchelsea- Stops on A259 in the village as the station is some distance from the village and along a narrow country lane..
Doleham and Three Oaks buses stop on A259 at Guestling Thorn. One stop serves both stations as they are both located along narrow country lanes. Doleham is about a mile from the A259.
Normans Bay is also situated along a narrow country lane but unsure how that is served..?
 

JonathanH

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Reading to Wokingham replacement buses calling at Earley, Winnersh Triangle and Winnersh stop at the bus stop on the main road between the two and make no attempt to deviate to the actual stations.
 

TUC

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It would be an interesting disability discrimination case if someone brought a legal challenge over a distant RRB stop.
 

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