How did railtours work in BR days?

[Gloster]

Weren’t the Manchester Pullman coaches restricted to electric haulage only (or was it just that for the time they were rare in being eth and air-brakes only?)

I have a vague feeling that the problem was that they had a high eth rating, which only an AC could provide.

 

[robert thomas]

Your standard BR brake vans - the better ones - CAP were piped only - for use on fitted trains - (or coupled to a loco) - so they would probably have run as a class 9 (old class 9) , as not braked (CAR and CAO brake vans had no such luxcery)


Yes -absolute no chance today - though certain tours had passengers riding in open wagons - pictures exist of Harpenden to Hemel Hempstead for example.......

Some degree of supervision would have been provided of course. Not a supervisor on each balcony which would have been expensive , especially at weekend overtime rates.

When I was a student at Manchester University in the 1960's the Railway Society regularly arranged brakevan trips on normal freight services. An extra brake van, normally unfitted, was placed at the rear of the train. BR worked out the mileage travelled and charged the appropriate first class fare for each participant.

 

[Sun Chariot]

Weren’t the Manchester Pullman coaches restricted to electric haulage only (or was it just that for the time they were rare in being eth and air-brakes only?)

They were ETH only; initially they were vac braked, if I recall (subsequently dual braked).
With 40s up front - yes, it would've meant no heat for those rear passengers.

 

[Haywain]

Yes, some did run overnight. And some over two nights.

I travelled on a weekend Merrymaker in 1974 from London St. Pancras to Edinburgh and back. Outward on Friday evening via Sheffield, York and Newcastle, arriving into Edinburgh Saturday morning. Return Saturday evening and back into St. Pancras Sunday morning.

Class 46 haulage both ways.

For a few years these were twice a year, one in spring and another in autumn. I have strong memories of them passing through the heavy industrial areas of South Yorkshire with blast furnaces glowing in the night. There was usually a lot of train spotting on the outward trip and a lot of sleep on the way back!

 

[WesternLancer]

I remember the Luxury Days out by train both booking them and being on them.

In the late 80s we used to have to call Euston Charter Trains unit and ask availability.
If there was we'd take payment from the the passenger.
We used to have to use a "Transfer Voucher" sheets (always in triplicate; 1 copy to the till, 1 copy to Euston, 1 copy to Derby)

Then it changed:
To issue tickets we had to swipe a bar code (in the Passenger Instruction Manual I think it was called - It was in a green binder and had updates regularly) through the APTIS machine and input the info like cost etc. then press the payment type.
Tickets issued and hand over to the passenger.
Then it changed:
So you had to visit the Travel Centre at Euston to get the tickets. If you were clever you'd still call the Euston Charter Train team and get them to hold on to x number of reservations for someone.

Travelling on one:

Track n Trains.

That's a link to my trip with the then girlfriend (now wife).

Nice to read that link - captures well the nature of the occasion and the era! Did you ever dig out the photos?

 

[youngpete]

In the 1970s there were always quite a few BR Specials on a May Saturday arrive at Spalding for the Flower Festival and Parade. Southern Region would usually provide two or three, at least one normally a pair of Hastings Diesels, the second usually a pair of Class 33s. Routes round London were always interesting and not always the most direct. Southern also used Hastings Diesels for journies off the third rail, I remember a football special for a Gillingham match that ran from Faversham to Luton with a pair of Hastings units.

 

[03_179]

Nice to read that link - captures well the nature of the occasion and the era! Did you ever dig out the photos?

I'm trying to !!!
I have thousands of rolls of film/negatives.
We cleared out our loft a couple of years ago and that resulted in me locating my old haulage note books of VEPS, EPBs etc from days working at places like Waterloo, Coulsdon and Clapham Junction.
I'll try having a look again over the weekend.
My lasting memory of the trip and photos was that I got soaked at one of the photo stops. As did my Practika MTL5B camera.

 

[WesternLancer]

I'm trying to !!!
I have thousands of rolls of film/negatives.
We cleared out our loft a couple of years ago and that resulted in me locating my old haulage note books of VEPS, EPBs etc from days working at places like Waterloo, Coulsdon and Clapham Junction.
I'll try having a look again over the weekend.
My lasting memory of the trip and photos was that I got soaked at one of the photo stops. As did my Practika MTL5B camera.

I know the feeling!
Funnily enough I had a Praktika (MTL5 I think) from about 1982ish until a mechanical part relating to the shutter jammed in late 90s by which time I could not find anyone who claimed to be able to repair such ex DDR kit. I used it a lot and really liked it. Simple but robust.

 

[Rescars]

Does anyone recall the specials run during the 1970s from the LM to Ascot for the races? IIRC three days consecutive out and back workings, culminating in Ladies Day. These were full dining trains, with two RKs in the consist, each working into four TSOs. 448 three course lunches served southbound and 448 three course dinners heading back north (plus quite a few drinks either celebrating winners or commiserating losers!) The West Midlands trains swapped from electric to diesel at Coventry and then ran via the (at the time) freight-only Kenilworth line for a final pick-up at Leamington. Once back on the main line there was just enough time to get everyone fed before the train reached Ascot, but any delay with the SR pilotman at Reading was advantageous!

 

[stephen rp]

Also known as "Look and Book" - a cheap off-season trip to a resort to see whether you fancied it for the summer holiday.

One highlight was the couple from Manchester on holiday in Margate who, on a rainy day, decided to try a "city destination" mystery trip. When they arrived at Piccadilly, they just went home for a cup of tea before the train back to Kent.

Does anyone recall the specials run during the 1970s from the LM to Ascot for the races? IIRC three days consecutive out and back workings, culminating in Ladies Day. These were full dining trains, with two RKs in the consist, each working into four TSOs. 448 three course lunches served southbound and 448 three course dinners heading back north (plus quite a few drinks either celebrating winners or commiserating losers!) The West Midlands trains swapped from electric to diesel at Coventry and then ran via the (at the time) freight-only Kenilworth line for a final pick-up at Leamington. Once back on the main line there was just enough time to get everyone fed before the train reached Ascot, but any delay with the SR pilotman at Reading was advantageous!

Cheltenham Racecourse station used to get a few specials, including first class only from Liverpool and Manchester, combined at Crewe.

 

[75A]

When I was lad in Bognor (late 60's, early 70's) we used to get them quite frequently. I only ever saw 33's on them, but I'm given to believe there was at least once a 25 from the LMR.

 

[stephen rp]

There were the Lourdes charters to Dover, unofficially known as a Popex.

I don't believe the story that Long John Silver had been on one, and off the boat at Dover he came stumping down past Customs. Customs Officer asked if he'd been to Lourdes for the cure. "Ar.." he says. "Bit of a failure then?" says the officer.
"I dunno," says Long John, "the parrot's lost his lisp".

 

[43096]

They were ETH only; initially they were vac braked, if I recall (subsequently dual braked)

They were vac only in BR days. When the refurbishment was done in 1983, first choice for the loco to haul the launch train was 87007 (for obvious reasons) until someone realised that as an 87 it was air only.

I think the stock was limited to AC locos only for electric supply. Possibly related to diesel locos supplying DC whereas the AC classes fed single-phase AC?

 

[Beebman]

We can't really cover railtours of the era without mentioning "Railtour Review" in the 1980s copies of Rail magazine, by a writer called David Maxey, who was unparalleled for sharp humour about events on the tours - he seems to have gone on many of them. One of many running gags was "Railtour Standard Time" - being one hour late.

A few years ago I had a big clear out of old magazines from the 80s and 90s which sadly had to go for recycling as they were otherwise worthless. However I did keep all my Rail issues from the mid-80s purely and simply because of David's Railtour Reviews and I really must get dig them out of the attic and get around to reading them again sometime.

Incidentally I'm very sure I was on the actual tour when he coined the term 'Railtour Standard Time'. My initial recollection was that it was an HRT train on the SR in the mid-80s so I've just had a look at Six Bells Junction and on the Railtours File page for 1985 the name 'Concrete Cow' leapt out at me. Looking at the page for the tour it visited Uckfield and Tunbridge Wells West after having been to Milton Keynes with two 33s top and tailing two 4TCs, and following a mixup early on with a pilotman at Acton Central causing the train to get delayed behind stopping services, it ran almost exactly an hour late most of the way until near the end at Watford Junction at 20:43. I'm therefore feeling quite certain that it was this tour which gave rise to the use of 'RST'.

 

[Sun Chariot]

I did keep all my Rail issues from the mid-80s purely and simply because of David's Railtour Reviews and I really must get dig them out of the attic and get around to reading them.

Oh please do It has been so many years since I laughed to those articles. I recall The Chopper Topper railtour getting the Maxey treatment - The Chopper Flopper - due to late running and some of its intended trackage getting cancelled.

Ironically, my Bicester Military Railway VHS video of the day, was presented by a much more sincere David Maxey.

 

[30907]

Also known as "Look and Book" - a cheap off-season trip to a resort to see whether you fancied it for the summer holiday.

Thank you - I had forgotten that detail re my Aberystwyth trip upthread.

 

[stephen rp]

My father did charters in the 50s / early 60s for a youth organisation using fixed camps on the east coast (Staithes or Marske) or in Scotland (Aberfoyle, or Abington). They usually put on a special charter from Manchester. For Abington, they added 5 coaches to the Saturday summer relief from Victoria to Glasgow (double-headed via S&C), detached them at Carlisle then ran as a special to Abington. The signalman at Abington station was very accommodating and I spent some hours in the box. He used to answer the telephone with "Station of the Stars" (Radio Luxembourg for older readers...)

I did one for an event in London in the early 80s for young people with two class 310s, one from Liverpool, one from Manchester (ECS from Bletchley). Worked fine except for the stop at Mossley Hill on the Sunday evening return - the station was locked and forty kids had to cross the line, and go up the embankment and through someone's back garden. That weekend was also a huge CND rally with lots of special charters - spare loco-hauled stock was all used, and the highlight was an 8-car DMU from Wrexham to Marylebone.

 

[Ken H]

No mention of the Branch Line Society. They ran tours into little known branches. There was a type of enthusiast called buffer stop kissers, who really wanted the trains to touch the end of branch buffers.

And didn't BR staff refer to enthusiast tours as Crankex's

 

[Haywain]

No mention of the Branch Line Society. They ran tours into little known branches.

They still do.

 

[D6130]

No mention of the Branch Line Society. They ran tours into little known branches. There was a type of enthusiast called buffer stop kissers, who really wanted the trains to touch the end of branch buffers.

And didn't BR staff refer to enthusiast tours as Crankex's

They still do....and there still are! We did call them Crankexes....certainly when I was involved in planning them in the '70s and '80s. However I believe that in certain parts of the country - particularly North-West England - the people riding on them called them 'Nedexes'.

 

[Sun Chariot]

No mention of the Branch Line Society.

They get mentioned in Post #5. Still an active company and they've run a couple of recent (within past 12 months) tours in the Hampshire - West Sussex area.

 

[GRALISTAIR]

I never did any Merrymakers myself.

I started with Merrymakers and progressed to full blown railtours.

 

[eastwestdivide]

Southern also used Hastings Diesels for journies off the third rail, I remember a football special for a Gillingham match that ran from Faversham to Luton with a pair of Hastings units.

I've photos of the opposite, a footex from Reading to Gillingham. Us Kentish spotters were expecting a loco and Mk1s, but it turned up as a 3-car 117 DMMU. Actually rarer in most of Kent than 47 + Mk1s which turned up most summer weekends into the 1980s on seaside excursions from off-region. With the exception of stuff that came up the WCML (change from electric loco to 33 by Willesden) or the MML (change from Peak to 33 at Brent).

 

[GRALISTAIR]

F & W Railtours were operated by Tony Fielding and Peter Watts. They later became Pathfinder Tours.
John Farrow worked for BR and organised tours for the Lea Valley Railway Club. He later left BR to run Hertfordshire Railtours.

And RESL was run by Dale Fickes

 

[Haywain]

And RESL was run by Dale Fickes

Did they run railtours?

 

[D6130]

Did they run railtours?

They mainly organised depot and works visits, travelling by coach from various starting points in West Yorkshire. However I think they ran at least one railtour, although open to correction if I'm wrong. The group's original name - back in the late 1960s - was 'Dalescroft Railfans' Club'.....based in Bradford, where Mr Fickes resided.

 

[Taunton]

At a notably youthful age we did possibly the last "Taunton Sunday School Treat". Apparently an annual event since at least the 1920s, going on adult reminiscences, lasting fractionally into diesel days, it went on an August Sunday to the delightful beach resort of ... Burnham-on-Sea . Don't know who had the commercial risk, but there were proper Edmonson tickets printed specially for it, bought from the church treasurers - of all denominations. Then there were groups from, it seemed, some local pubs, and just about every railwayman not on duty, and all with wives and kids.

Didn't leave until about 11.30 because all had to go to church first, then march on the road through the town in finery, with parents shambling alongside. 41xx tank and several Taunton branch line non-corridor B sets for a considerable formation. At Highbridge it stopped, reversed into the S&D platforms, and although only one mile finally to Burnham old divisions died hard and the S&D side had steamed TWO 412xx specially (for a Sunday) to do that one mile final leg. Burnham station had closed about 10 years beforehand, but the platform was still there, I think a Highbridge porter came down to sweep it all out the day before.

 

[WesternLancer]

At a notably youthful age we did possibly the last "Taunton Sunday School Treat". Apparently an annual event since at least the 1920s, going on adult reminiscences, lasting fractionally into diesel days, it went on an August Sunday to the delightful beach resort of ... Burnham-on-Sea . Don't know who had the commercial risk, but there were proper Edmonson tickets printed specially for it, bought from the church treasurers - of all denominations. Then there were groups from, it seemed, some local pubs, and just about every railwayman not on duty, and all with wives and kids.

Didn't leave until about 11.30 because all had to go to church first, then march on the road through the town in finery, with parents shambling alongside. 41xx tank and several Taunton branch line non-corridor B sets for a considerable formation. At Highbridge it stopped, reversed into the S&D platforms, and although only one mile finally to Burnham old divisions died hard and the S&D side had steamed TWO 412xx specially (for a Sunday) to do that one mile final leg. Burnham station had closed about 10 years beforehand, but the platform was still there, I think a Highbridge porter came down to sweep it all out the day before.

Remarkable! Approx what year would that have been Taunton?

 

[GRALISTAIR]

Did they run railtours?

Quite a few. I was on most. Six Belles Junction gives the details. The Grampian Highlander and The Plant Invader were two of them.

 

[Mollington St]

Talking of Merrymakers , i have dug into my collection and stock and have a few of the publicity flyers, handbills and brochures all used to promote the excursions .

i will have all of these and more scanned and listed on my site at www.transportpasttimes

Image 1 - 1972 London Midland Region Issue , detailing the years excursions from LM stations, one trip that catches the eye - Sunday August 6th - Aylesbury to Littlehampton, or 29th April Kensington Olympia to Tenby
Image 2 - 1976 an 80 page booklet again LM region , detailing every trip including to Europe
Image 3+4 - 1975 Eastern Region Leeds District , plenty of interesting trip in 1975 , priced accordingly
Image 5+6 - 1982 - Southern Region Offerings

As mentioned by a number of members already - Six Bells Junction Website , will give you loco details, routes and timings , on Rail Tours, Merrymakers and other specials .

Hope these few might stir some memories , i can scan and list more