How do I tell guards how to sell rovers?

[Muzer]

We're heading to do some Lincolnshire bashing, and we've had three well-meaning but poorly-trained guards so far (two SWT and one VTEC) who can't figure out how to sell the rovers with Avantix machines.

IIRC there's a special menu or something for rovers? For future reference, what exactly does selling a rover entail? (I know the machines are probably being replaced at the moment, but meh...)

 

[trentside]

Tell them to go to Secondary Menu -> Rover Enquiry.

Code for Lincolnshire Day Ranger is I383.

 

[Haywain]

Ticket offices are also available.

 

[Muzer]

Ticket offices are also available.

Unfortunately, a) I don't tend to have much luck with ticket offices being able to actually sell the correct tickets, b) there was no reasonable opportunity to buy from a ticket office on this particular journey.

@trentside: The guard claimed he had no such "secondary menu" option, but I feel he was likely not looking in the right place.

In this case, NSEFAN went and bought it at Peterborough ticket office, on the advice of the guard, as the train had a 20 minute wait there while they attached the loco... in this case, being a station in the ranger area, they managed to overcome the usual "big ticket office incompetence"...

 

[grumblingalong]

I wouldn't rely on VTEC guards to issue tickets, they don't have to do it as often as the rest of us so more than once I've actually just used their machine while they watched ?????? But yes secondary-rovers then the code or enter say Lincoln to access the search function.

 

[trentside]

Some TOCs also restrict what their guards can sell onboard, I believe.

 

[headshot119]

VTEC have issued me a couple of rovers when travelling from the Cross to Edinburgh.

Shouldn't be a problem as long as they know where the rovers menu is.

 

[Muzer]

We actually had the good fortune to run into trentside on our travels today, so cheers for the demonstration! Hopefully when this comes up in the future we can help them with it — I've already taught a number of SWT ticket office clerks how to issue reservations without a ticket, after all! It's a shame, I usually found SWT guards quite good at knowing how to do various things, but two of them didn't know today. I wonder if there's been a software update or something...

 

[Blindtraveler]

Whilst my usual 1 word description of anything TPE do is incompitant, I managed to get a Cumbria Round Robbin issued onboard an Angloscottish train last year after EDB's ticket office confidently informed me that no such ticket existed!

 

[185143]

Whilst my usual 1 word description of anything TPE do is incompitant, I managed to get a Cumbria Round Robbin issued onboard an Angloscottish train last year after EDB's ticket office confidently informed me that no such ticket existed!

Edinburgh have sold at least one Lancashire day ranger. To me.

Ive had a cheshire day ranger from Southampton before too.

Hooton have sold me several GM wayfarers. (Special sense of achievement to get a Merseyrail ticket office to do anything off their network) Walton have sold me advances within Scotland before. Took a while

 

[TEW]

We actually had the good fortune to run into trentside on our travels today, so cheers for the demonstration! Hopefully when this comes up in the future we can help them with it — I've already taught a number of SWT ticket office clerks how to issue reservations without a ticket, after all! It's a shame, I usually found SWT guards quite good at knowing how to do various things, but two of them didn't know today. I wonder if there's been a software update or something...

There are few rovers valid in the SWT area, so can't imagine SWT guards issue them very often.

 

[221129]

There are few rovers valid in the SWT area, so can't imagine SWT guards issue them very often.

I wouldn't say it was only a few. I can think of at least 10.

 

[Blindtraveler]

This would appear to be going into a discussion of who's had what ticket issued where, maybe worth renaming as such?

I would say one worth mentioning in that contects would be Birmingham Internationals issue of an Inverkeithing to Tweedbank Off Peek return for day 2 of Borders opperation on the lines opening day, very handy for fellow forumer Techniquest who was flying up to Scotland to gryce it!

 

[LowLevel]

The issuing of rangers and rovers on Avantix can be very simple or a huge pain. Some are entered under bizarre names so unless you know the code or what to search for they're a bit tricky to find. Some are issued like point to point tickets with an origin and destination too. I don't do many but always enjoy the challenge of finding the right one as something a bit different!

 

[trentside]

We actually had the good fortune to run into trentside on our travels today, so cheers for the demonstration! Hopefully when this comes up in the future we can help them with it — I've already taught a number of SWT ticket office clerks how to issue reservations without a ticket, after all! It's a shame, I usually found SWT guards quite good at knowing how to do various things, but two of them didn't know today. I wonder if there's been a software update or something...

Nice to meet you, and not a problem - hopefully will make it more simple in future. Though as LowLevel says, once you get into the menu it can be another matter when it comes to finding what the rover is actually called in the system!

 

[bnm]

There are few rovers valid in the SWT area, so can't imagine SWT guards issue them very often.

Heart of Wessex Day Ranger
Freedom of Severn and Solent
Freedom of South West
Freedom of Devon and Cornwall
Devon Day Ranger
Devon Evening Ranger
All Line Rover
North Downs Day Ranger
Thames Rover
Freedom Travelpass

I don't think 10 products valid on SWT services can be described as few.

Not knowing how to use TIS to their full potential is however endemic across the rail industry, not just limited to on train sales. Just yesterday I had a ticket office tell me there was no such thing as a Heart of Wessex Day Ranger.

I also can think of no logical reason why some TOCs tell their on train ticket sellers not to sell certain products despite that product being available for use from a passenger's origin station.

And don't get me started on that stupid Condition of Carriage rule that says if the ticket type you require is not available from origin station TVM you must buy a ticket to cover part of your journey. I did this once when I wanted a Rover and the conductor refused point blank to accept the ticket in part payment and I waited over a month for the TOC to refund the original unnecessary ticket.

 

[Blindtraveler]

Its heartening to hear of offices elsewhere saying that rover and ranger type products dont exist but a tad sad as if they dont move with the times then the roll of a ticket office will be questioned further.

 

[Bellbell]

Some of them really are difficult to find in the avantix, as others have mentioned. I know full well where to look but have previously found myself running out of options to put in the search box when trying to find a particular rover! I am very happy to come across the odd passenger who knows what the abbreviation/code is and definitely not too proud to accept their help.

 

[DaiGog]

once you get into the menu it can be another matter when it comes to finding what the rover is actually called in the system!

This is a good point as some tickets have long names, so are abbreviated in the fares system - so searching for e.g. 'Lincolnshire' may not always work if the ticket is abbreviated to 'Linclnshre' or something like that!

 

[Parallel]

The first time I asked to purchase a Heart Of Wessex Day Ranger, the ticket office said it didn't exist. Once I also tried to purchase it on the train (Weymouth HST special) but the ticket examiner couldn't find it on his avantix.

The other times have all been fine, however.

If I'm planning a trip in the GWR area and I'm a bit worried about staff not being able to find the ticket on the day, I usually order it online from the GWR website on the week before, like I did with the Dartmoor Sunday Rover last summer. I wish more TOCs would follow suit and sell rover & ranger tickets online.

 

[hairyhandedfool]

This is a good point as some tickets have long names, so are abbreviated in the fares system - so searching for e.g. 'Lincolnshire' may not always work if the ticket is abbreviated to 'Linclnshre' or something like that!

It's not just Abbreviations (though that does make it more tricky), or Avantix for that matter.

Trying to find "Freedom of the Northwest" Rovers on STAR is painful if you don't know that it is neither abbreviated, nor contains the words "Freedom of the"

 

[Mitch in Notts]

Though as LowLevel says, once you get into the menu it can be another matter when it comes to finding what the rover is actually called in the system!

I had that problem when buying a East Midlands Round Robin Ticket on a Robin Hood Train a few years ago. I had the leaflet. The guard had the right menu, but had hell of a job finding what it was abbreviated under. Perhaps the reason it was scrapped was because noone could find it to sell......

 

[Starmill]

It's not just Abbreviations (though that does make it more tricky), or Avantix for that matter.

Trying to find "Freedom of the Northwest" Rovers on STAR is painful if you don't know that it is neither abbreviated, nor contains the words "Freedom of the"

And then the awkward moment when the customer has paid with an RTV and the wrong one out of East / West has been issued... oops.

 

[RJ]

For reference, non exhaustive list of tickets set up as rovers in the current NFM;

Description                   	NLC 	 Public 
ALL LINE ROVER 14DAY          	I662	 £731.00 
ALL LINE ROVER 7DAY           	I661	 £483.00 
ANGLIA PLUS 3 DAYS IN 7       	K285	 £36.20 
ANGLIA PLUS DAY RANGER        	K285	 £18.20 
BATH TOUR                     	J853	 £6.50 
BATH TOUR FAMILY              	J855	 £17.00 
BATH TOUR REDCTN              	J854	 £4.00 
BICESTER VILLAGE DAY RANGER   	H921	 £32.00 
BITTERN LINE SENIOR RANGER    	I070	 £6.00 
BITTERN ONE DAY FAMILY RANGER 	I013	 £20.00 
BITTERN ONE DAY RANGER        	I013	 £9.00 
BRITAIL SW PASS 15 DAYS FLEXI 	I668	 £309.55 
BRITAIL SW PASS 3 DAYS FLEXI  	I668	 £119.10 
BRITAIL SW PASS 4 DAYS FLEXI  	I668	 £143.90 
BRITAIL SW PASS 8 DAYS FLEXI  	I668	 £206.05 
BRITAIL SW SVRPASS 15DY CONSEC	I668	 £194.65 
BRITAIL SW SVRPASS 15DY FLEXI 	I668	 £247.65 
BRITAIL SW SVRPASS 22DY CONSEC	I668	 £244.35 
BRITAIL SW SVRPASS 3DY CONSEC 	I668	 £73.75 
BRITAIL SW SVRPASS 3DY FLEXI  	I668	 £95.25 
BRITAIL SW SVRPASS 4DY CONSEC 	I668	 £90.30 
BRITAIL SW SVRPASS 4DY FLEXI  	I668	 £115.15 
BRITAIL SW SVRPASS 8DY CONSEC 	I668	 £131.70 
BRITAIL SW SVRPASS 8DY FLEXI  	I668	 £164.85 
BRITRAIL SW PASS 15DAYS CONSEC	I668	 £243.30 
BRITRAIL SW PASS 1MONTH CONSEC	I668	 £361.35 
BRITRAIL SW PASS 22DAYS CONSEC	I668	 £305.40 
BRITRAIL SW PASS 3 DAYS CONSEC	I668	 £92.15 
BRITRAIL SW PASS 4 DAYS CONSEC	I668	 £112.85 
BRITRAIL SW PASS 8 DAYS CONSEC	I668	 £164.65 
BRP SW LOWSEASN 1 MTH CONSEC  	I668	 £289.05 
BRP SW LOWSEASN 15 DY CONSEC  	I668	 £194.65 
BRP SW LOWSEASN 15 DY FLEXI   	I668	 £247.65 
BRP SW LOWSEASN 22 DY CONSEC  	I668	 £244.35 
BRP SW LOWSEASN 3 DY CONSEC   	I668	 £73.75 
BRP SW LOWSEASN 3 DY FLEXI    	I668	 £95.25 
BRP SW LOWSEASN 4 DY CONSEC   	I668	 £90.30 
BRP SW LOWSEASN 4 DY FLEXI    	I668	 £115.15 
BRP SW LOWSEASN 8 DY CONSEC   	I668	 £131.70 
BRP SW LOWSEASN 8 DY FLEXI    	I668	 £164.85 
BRP SW SVRPASS 1MTH CONSEC    	I668	 £289.05 
C2C SENIOR ROVER ALL-LINE     	I399	 £9.00 
C2C SENIOR ROVER EXCL. Z1-6   	I404	 £5.00 
CAMBRIAN COASTER DAY RANGER   	I395	 £12.00 
CAMBRIAN COASTER FAM DAY RANGR	I395	 £21.00 
CENTRAL SCOTLAND ROVER        	J450	 £36.30 
CHERWELL DIDCOT DAY RANGER    	I078	 £5.40 
CHERWELL DIDCOT FAMILY RANGER 	I078	 £10.85 
CHERWELL OXFORD DAY RANGER    	I079	 £3.15 
CHERWELL OXFORD FAMILY RANGER 	I079	 £6.45 
CHERWELL READING DAY RANGER   	I080	 £7.55 
CHERWELL READING FAMILY RANGER	I080	 £15.15 
CHESHIRE DAY RGR              	I351	 £22.70 
COTSWOLDS 1DAY                	I257	 £10.25 
COTSWOLDS 3DAY                	I258	 £25.60 
CST PKS 4IN8 RVR              	I113	 £73.00 
CUMBRIA DAY RANGER            	I021	 £41.90 
CUMBRIA RNDN RBN              	I365	 £29.80 
CUMBRIAN COAST DAY RANGER     	I366	 £19.50 
DALES RAMBLER                 	K809	 £12.00 
DALES RAMBLER FAMILY          	K810	 £25.00 
DARTMOOR SUNDAY ROVER         	I161	 £10.00 
DARTMOOR SUNDAY ROVER FAMILY  	I161	 £20.00 
DAYSAVE 4 - ANY SOUTHERN TRAIN	I444	 £28.00 
DAYSAVE FLEXI - ANY STHN TRAIN	I444	 £24.00 
DAYSAVE PEAK - ANY STHN TRAIN 	I444	 £35.00 
DAYSAVE WEEKLY-ANY STHN TRAIN 	I444	 £87.00 
DAYSAVE1 - ANY SOUTHERN TRAIN 	I444	 £14.00 
DAYSAVER TB                   	H004	 £6.70 
DAYSAVER TBM                  	H005	 £8.70 
DAYSAVER TM                   	H022	 £8.00 
DAYTRIPPER EXCHANGE           	I196	 £6.50 
DAYTRIPPER EXCHANGE FAMILY    	I193	 £11.20 
DERBYS WAYFARER EX NOTTS/BSTON	G400	 £16.90 
DERBYSHIRE WAYFARER           	G400	 £12.30 
DERBYSHIRE WAYFARER GROUP     	G400	 £22.50 
DEVON EVENING RANGER          	I384	 £5.00 
DEVON RANGER                  	I857	 £10.00 
E YORKS R ROBIN               	I455	 £23.70 
EAST MIDLANDS DAY RANGER      	I165	 £36.30 
EAST MIDLANDS ROVER 3 DAYSIN 7	I115	 £82.90 
EAST MIDLANDS ROVER 7 DAYS    	I775	 £107.80 
EXPLORE CARDIFF & VALLEYS     	I494	 £12.00 
EXPLORE GOWER 1 DAY           	K843	 £4.50 
EXPLORE GOWER 3 DAY           	K843	 £10.00 
EXPLORE NTH WALES 4IN8        	H515	 £69.00 
EXPLORE STH WALES 4IN8        	H746	 £69.00 
EXPLORE WALES 4IN8            	H743	 £99.00 
EXPLORE WEST WALES            	I355	 £12.00 
FODC ROVER 3 IN 7             	I650	 £46.00 
FODC ROVER 8 IN 15 DAYS       	I659	 £70.50 
FOSS ROVER 3 IN 7 DAYS        	I863	 £46.00 
FOSS ROVER 8IN 15 DAYS        	I862	 £70.50 
FOSW ROVER 3 IN 7 DAYS        	I855	 £80.90 
FOSW ROVER 8 IN 15 DAYS       	I621	 £111.50 
FREEDOM A 1 DAY OFF PEAK      	I532	 £8.50 
FREEDOM A 1 DAY PEAK          	I532	 £9.00 
FREEDOM A 1 MONTH PEAK        	I532	 £154.00 
FREEDOM A 7 DAY PEAK          	I532	 £40.00 
FREEDOM AB 1 DAY OFF PEAK     	I591	 £11.00 
FREEDOM AB 1 DAY PEAK         	I591	 £11.50 
FREEDOM AB 1 MONTH PEAK       	I591	 £192.00 
FREEDOM AB 7 DAY PEAK         	I591	 £50.00 
FREEDOM ABC 1 DAY OFF PEAK    	I572	 £12.50 
FREEDOM ABC 1 DAY PEAK        	I572	 £13.50 
FREEDOM ABC 1 MONTH PEAK      	I572	 £227.00 
FREEDOM ABC 7 DAY PEAK        	I572	 £59.00 
FREEDOM OF SCOTLAND 4FROM8    	J176	 £134.00 
FREEDOM OF SCOTLAND 8DAYSIN15 	J170	 £179.70 
FREEDOM OF THE COASTWAY       	I143	 £2.00 
GLASGOW CONFERENCE ROVER      	I272	 £5.00 
GM CONC WAYFARER              	K816	 £6.00 
GM GRP WAYFARER               	K817	 £23.00 
GM RAIL RANGER                	I103	 £5.40 
GM WAYFARER                   	K815	 £12.00 
GO STAFF PASS ZONE A 1MTH     	I450	 £26.90 
GO STAFF PASS ZONE A 3 MTH    	I450	 £80.70 
GO STAFF PASS ZONE A 7DAY     	I450	 £7.00 
GO STAFF PASS ZONE A ANNUAL   	I450	 £280.00 
GO STAFF PASS ZONE A&B 1MTH   	I450	 £53.80 
GO STAFF PASS ZONE A&B 3MTH   	I450	 £161.30 
GO STAFF PASS ZONE A&B 7DAY   	I450	 £14.00 
GO STAFF PASS ZONE A&B ANNUAL 	I450	 £560.00 
GO STAFF PASS ZONE ABC 1MTH   	I450	 £107.60 
GO STAFF PASS ZONE ABC 3MTH   	I450	 £322.60 
GO STAFF PASS ZONE ABC 7DAY   	I450	 £28.00 
GO STAFF PASS ZONE ABC ANNUAL 	I450	 £1,120.00 
GO STAFF PASS ZONE B 1 MTH    	I450	 £26.90 
GO STAFF PASS ZONE B 3MTH     	I450	 £80.70 
GO STAFF PASS ZONE B 7DAY     	I450	 £7.00 
GO STAFF PASS ZONE B ANNUAL   	I450	 £280.00 
GO STAFF PASS ZONE B&C 1MTH   	I450	 £80.70 
GO STAFF PASS ZONE B&C 3MTH   	I450	 £242.00 
GO STAFF PASS ZONE B&C 7DAY   	I450	 £21.00 
GO STAFF PASS ZONE B&C ANNUAL 	I450	 £840.00 
GO STAFF PASS ZONE C 1MTH     	I450	 £53.80 
GO STAFF PASS ZONE C 3MTH     	I450	 £161.30 
GO STAFF PASS ZONE C 7DAY     	I450	 £14.00 
GO STAFF PASS ZONE C ANNUAL   	I450	 £560.00 
HADRIANS WALL COUNTRY LINE    	I299	 £20.70 
HEART OF ENGLAND ROVER 7 DAYS 	I664	 £106.00 
HEART OF ENGLAND RVR 3DAYSIN7 	I122	 £81.60 
HEART OF WESSEX RANGER        	I858	 £19.00 
HIGHLAND ROVER                	H263	 £81.50 
HT OF WALES CIRCRANGER        	I493	 £39.00 
ISLAND LINE DAY RGR           	I898	 £5.80 
ISLAND LINE FAM DAY RGR       	I898	 £14.50 
ISLAND LINER ROVER            	K048	 £15.00 
KENNET DAY RANGER             	I784	 £13.80 
KENT ROVER                    	I431	 £39.50 
LAKES DAY RANGER              	L401	 £22.50 
LAKES FAMILY DAY RANGER       	L402	 £44.00 
LANCASHIRE DAY RANGER         	I065	 £22.70 
LINCOLNSHIRE DAY RANGER       	I383	 £27.50 
ME NTH/WRL EVENT              	I313	 £4.00 
MERSEYRAIL FAMILY DAY TICKET  	I259	 £10.00 
MTRAV SAVEAWAY ALL AREAS      	I518	 £5.20 
MTRAV SAVEAWAY ALL AREAS 16-18	I518	 £2.70 
MTRAV SAVEAWAY AREA A         	I514	 £3.90 
MTRAV SAVEAWAY AREA A 16-18   	I514	 £2.30 
MTRAV SAVEAWAY AREA B         	I515	 £3.90 
MTRAV SAVEAWAY AREA B 16-18   	I515	 £2.30 
MTRAV SAVEAWAY AREA C         	I516	 £3.90 
MTRAV SAVEAWAY AREA C 16-18   	I516	 £2.30 
MTRAV SAVEAWAY AREA D         	I517	 £3.90 
MTRAV SAVEAWAY AREA D 16-18   	I517	 £2.30 
NETWORK 1 DAY                 	G810	 £8.30 
NETWRK DAYTRIPPER             	G107	 £6.50 
NETWRK FAM DAYTRIP            	G105	 £11.20 
NORTH DOWNS DAY RANGER        	I358	 £15.85 
NORTH EAST 4 IN 8 DAY ROVER   	I743	 £95.00 
NORTH EAST 7 DAY ROVER        	I803	 £110.00 
NORTH EAST ROUND ROBIN        	I152	 £47.50 
NORTH WALES ALL ZONE          	H522	 £36.00 
NORTH WEST 4 IN 8 DAY ROVER   	I120	 £73.00 
NORTH WEST 7 DAY ROVER        	I772	 £88.00 
NORTH WEST ROUND ROBIN        	I465	 £37.90 
NORTHCOUNTRY ROVER 4 DAYS IN 8	I744	 £91.00 
NORTHERN FAMILY & FRIENDS     	I149	 £6.00 
OXFORD EVENING OUT            	I464	 £3.05 
OXFORDSHIRE DAY RANGER        	I432	 £15.85 
RIDE CORNWALL                 	J118	 £10.00 
RIDECORNW FAMLY               	J118	 £20.00 
SOUTH PENNINES DAY RANGER     	I466	 £22.70 
SOUTH YORKSHIRE TRAVELMASTER  	G039	 £7.70 
SOUTHEND BUS RVR              	H121	 £1.60 
ST IVES DAY GROUP RANGER      	I059	 £8.00 
ST IVES FAMILY DAY RANGER     	I039	 £10.00 
ST IVES LINE DAY              	I294	 £4.00 
SY GETABOUT+ 18               	K840	 £3.60 
THAMES BRANCHES DAY RANGER    	I066	 £19.45 
THAMES ROVER 3 DAYS           	I367	 £46.10 
THAMES ROVER 7 DAYS           	I367	 £80.90 
TYNE & TEES DAY RANGER        	I875	 £21.70 
VAL NIGHT RIDER               	I371	 £6.00 
WEST MIDLANDS DAY RANGER      	I274	 £25.10 
WEST YORKSHIRE DAY ROVER      	K701	 £8.00 
WEST YORKSHIRE FAMILY DAYROVER	K700	 £12.00 
WEST YORKSHIRE TRAIN DAYROVER 	I046	 £7.10 
WESTMIDLANDS FAMILY DAY RANGER	I274	 £50.20 
WHERRY LINE RANGER            	I437	 £9.00 
WHERRY LINE RANGER FAMILY     	I437	 £20.00 
WHERRY LINE RANGER SENIOR     	I437	 £6.00 
YORKSHIRE COAST DAY RANGER    	J443	 £20.00 
YORKSHIRE COAST FAMILY RANGER 	J444	 £40.00

 

[maniacmartin]

I usually just take a printout of the ticket's page from BRFares if I'm buying something obscure. It has all the codes (but not enough information for one Southeastern ticket office clerk to find it!)