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How is OHLE so robust?

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richieb1971

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I'm a bit confused how OHLE doesn't break regularly. My washing line has a few years on it and you can see wear and tear, its going to snap eventually.

I've read a little about how pantographs wear down, but i've never read anywhere that OHLE had to be replaced on a regular basis. The WCML has been there 50+ years. Am I to believe those cables are the exact same ones that went up in the 1960's?
 
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LNW-GW Joint

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I'm a bit confused how OHLE doesn't break regularly. My washing line has a few years on it and you can see wear and tear, its going to snap eventually.
I've read a little about how pantographs wear down, but i've never read anywhere that OHLE had to be replaced on a regular basis. The WCML has been there 50+ years. Am I to believe those cables are the exact same ones that went up in the 1960's?

The fast line wiring out of Euston (ie the entire length of what is now the 125mph WCML) was replaced during the WCRM project (1997-2008).
It's not just a replacement, the new wires are larger and heavier, for higher performance.
The replacement of the OHLE out of Liverpool St is nearing completion, some of it installed by the LNER more than 70 years ago.
The ECML wiring is due for upgrade if they ever go for 140mph working, and the MML wiring is being upgraded for 125mph.
 
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InOban

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I had always assumed that it was the pantograph carbon which wore sacrificially.
 

47802

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Of course people keep banging on about increased electrification, and reduced maintenance and fuel costs of electric trains, but I wonder what the maintenance costs are for the overhead electrics?
 

daikilo

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I had always assumed that it was the pantograph carbon which wore sacrificially.

Your assumption is a design fact. However, other parts of the OHLE do occasionally need replacing before the wire.
 

TheEdge

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I'm a bit confused how OHLE doesn't break regularly

Every ECML user...
a7e.jpg

(Image shows a quizzical looking John Cleese, caption "Really?")

There is work done on regular maintenance and replacement to keep it spic and (cross)span. But rarely is full scale replacement done outside of projects where that is the aim.
 

edwin_m

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I had always assumed that it was the pantograph carbon which wore sacrificially.
Your assumption is a design fact. However, other parts of the OHLE do occasionally need replacing before the wire.
Indeed. It's less hassle to inspect and where necessary replace the carbons when the train comes into the depot than to inspect and replace hundreds of miles of OLE (though the measurement trains do monitor the OLE as well as the track). Also the carbons are hollow and the cavity is pressurised with the air that is used to keep the pantograph up, so if the carbon wears too far the pantograph will drop, hopefully before doing any damage. As an added bonus the carbon (graphite) is a lubricant. I don't remember much about the chemistry of graphite (if I ever knew in the first place) but it may also be more tolerant to heat than a metal contact strip would be.
 
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Indeed. It's less hassle to inspect and where necessary replace the carbons when the train comes into the depot than to inspect and replace hundreds of miles of OLE (though the measurement trains do monitor the OLE as well as the track). Also the carbons are hollow and the cavity is pressurised with the air that is used to keep the pantograph up, so if the carbon wears too far the pantograph will drop, hopefully before doing any damage. As an added bonus the carbon (graphite) is a lubricant. I don't remember much about the chemistry of graphite (if I ever knew in the first place) but it may also be more tolerant to heat than a metal contact strip would be.

Yes graphite can be considered a lubricant. It consists of sheets of carbon atoms bound to each other in the shape of hexagons with strong sigma bonds. The sheets themselves are more weakly bound by pi bonds so that the sheets can slide over each other giving the graphite its lubricating properties.
 

Bald Rick

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The whole OLE system wears over time.

1) the contact wire wears over time. I have in my possession a short length of original contact wire off the GEML (taken out in 2011), and it has a cross section slightly less than a semi circle (it was circular when installed in 1948/9). Contact wire does break on it's own although that is relatively rare. Incidentally the new contact wire going in on the GEML is about 75% of the cross section of what is coming out. The original was installed for 1500v DC and was necessarily thicker to deal with increased current. Incidentally (2) I'm reasonably sure that the contact wire on all running lines of the WCML was changed south of Crewe, not just the fasts.

2) the catenary (support) wire also wears. Obviously not through pantograph contact, but usually at mechanical contact points ie where it is attached to registration arms, anchors and the like. It is usually a stranded wire (as opposed to a single thick 'rod' for contact wire) and the typical failure is of some of the strands, which causes additional stress on what remains, and eventually they all go.

3) the most common thing to break is a dropper. This is the short lengths of wire that connect the catenary wire to the contact wire. These break routinely, normally at the connectors. I should think that one comes off somewhere on the network every day. Fortunately you can get away with the odd one being broken, so it's not an urgent job. Unless of course it is hanging below the contact wire and then it has to be removed ASAP (10 minute job once someone gets there and has the juice off)

4) other key components that fail are
a) insulators, particularly older designs which are susceptible to water penetration and frost shatter.
b) pulley wheels, usually due to lack of maintenance (lubrication); although these don't cause a failure themselves they can trigger something else, cause the wire to go out of alignment which then causes a pan to fall off
c) registration arms. These can occasionally break / bend badly, but that is pretty rare.
d) insulation failures. Where live components are closer to structures etc than the standard, they must be insulated. This insulating can perish over time (particularly if under a road bridge that has regular salting), which can then cause a flashover which will burn through the relevant component in a trice.
e) all the connections that hold it all together, basically nuts and bolts. The OLE system is designed to be flexible to deal with thermal expansion, wind, snow loading etc. Some of the connections are thus designed to travel, and if they get too tight (through corrosion, wear, being particularly dirty, lack of lubrication) then they can seize, and cause part of the system to lose that flexibility. This is why 'problems with the OLE' are more likely in very cold or very warm weather.

Finally the OLE support structures do wear, albeit often in unseen ways. Some obviously corrode, although that's not usually a problem. The main issue is failure of the structure foundations, particularly in places where they are 'stray' currents around from heavy industry and particularly other (DC) railways. this can cause the bolts between the concrete foundations and masts to corrode rapidly.

All of this is inspected regularly, and some components are changed on an as required basis. Often it is decided to do a 'campaign' replacement of some components on a certain stretch of line, eg all insulators. I've done that myself in a number of places.

In terms of failure of the OLE itself, as opposed to the distribution equipment (transformers, substations etc) my guess for failure causes, based on personal experience, is as follows:

20-25% caused by the train, usually pantograph failure, but sometimes other parts of the train hitting the wires

20-25% caused by 'outside parties' coming into contact with the live part of the system, thence causing failure through mechanical failure or electrical flashover. Often the 'outside party' is of avian origin, landing or flying at just the wrong place / wrong time. Pigeons seem to be particularly conductive.

20-25% caused by the failure of one or more component, broadly split between a failing of maintenance, or because of a hidden flaw in that component.

15-20% caused by extreme weather outside the design capability of the system (usually very, very hot temps, or hurricane force winds)

The rest fall into the category of no-one is really sure.


Hope this helps.
 
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AndrewE

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Yes graphite can be considered a lubricant. It consists of sheets of carbon atoms bound to each other in the shape of hexagons with strong sigma bonds. The sheets themselves are more weakly bound by pi bonds so that the sheets can slide over each other giving the graphite its lubricating properties.
When I had dealings with pantographs (or more correctly the pollution fall-out from wear debris) I had to talk to Morganite in S Wales who made graphite crucibles and other carbon products. They said pantograph carbons were not graphite but more like the electrode in the middle of an old zinc-carbon battery. The carbon is conductive but porous, and its conductivity is improved by being pressure impregnated with liquid copper, with liquid lead in the mixture as a lubricant, reducing wear a bit.
 

cambsy

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Very fascinating post by Bald Rick, on a subject most people wouldn’t give a second thought to, I think the most resilient OLE is the WCML, where as the ECML regulary seeems to fall over, I’d be fascinated to hear from Bald Rick the exact reason for this, and is the ECML worse than the WCML?
 

Mikey C

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How does our failure rate compare with other European countries? I imagine many of our lines get more intensive use, plus the UK is a very windy country which doesn't help
 

GRALISTAIR

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Fascinating thread. I will a fuller reply on Monday. Some great material science goes into the design of OHLE systems. The contact wire is not pure copper - too soft and prone to creep under load so used to be alloyed with Cadmium but now silver is the alloying element.
 

Shaw S Hunter

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Has does our failure rate compare with other European countries? I imagine many of our lines get more intensive use, plus the UK is a very windy country which doesn't help

The Netherlands is much windier! The network there is nearly all electrified and being so exposed to wind mostly has portal structures carrying the OHLE. And their network is also intensively used. I am not aware of them having service interruptions due to OHLE damage anything like as frequently as here.
 

driver_m

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The WCML is more resilient, but it's far from perfect, the southern end has had a lot of trouble in recent years, for what is supposed to be a tried and tested system. I always maintain that the old DC structures out of Man Picc towards Guide Bridge as being the most reliable OLE, I suppose the heat sag isn't so much an issue on these lines as opposed to the similar ones out of London
 

ironstone11

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The Netherlands is much windier! .
Where is the evidence for that? I can't find any.

Most of the Netherlands is 1500Vdc, therefore heavier and more robust structures are required. Reliability also depends on the complexity of junctions, line speed etc.

I always maintain that the old DC structures out of Man Picc towards Guide Bridge as being the most reliable OLE,

Well, there you have it!
 

richieb1971

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Thanks everyone for your input. Bald Rick that was a long piece you wrote and I read every word, didn't understand every word but at least I understand maintenance is quite possibly every single day and its not a stroke of Godly luck that cables never break. As for the ECML I didn't think the problem was that bad. I have not read any threads on here about ECML disruption due to OLE faults. I imagine its wind and possibly up north a lot. Regardless of the faults i've learnt about today, it still seems like a very robust system.

I have observed OHLE connection a lot when I am filming Pendos. Its amazing such a long train can be powered by a contact 1" across. Its amazing when you think about it.

Final question regarding OLE.

Steam engines, as little as they run on the main line these days will park at a station in the exact same point every time. Usually within 20 feet of the signal light. Surely this area of cable gets a windfall of highly pressurized, highly heated coke pumped onto it? When I see this scenario in real life my eyes are on the cables more than they are on the loco (weird I know). I'm always worried the cable will snap. Is my concern warranted? Is there any truth that a steam engine can weaken the cable at the end of a platform?

Thanks.
 

Shaw S Hunter

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Where is the evidence for that? I can't find any.

Most of the Netherlands is 1500Vdc, therefore heavier and more robust structures are required. Reliability also depends on the complexity of junctions, line speed etc.

So when someone says "Holland" you don't think of windmills? Absolute maximum windspeeds may be higher here thanks to our proximity to open ocean but the frequency of windy weather is much higher in the Netherlands: the slightest breath off the North Sea will go just about across the whole country. Try living there and cycling every day!
 

AndrewE

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Fascinating thread. I will a fuller reply on Monday. Some great material science goes into the design of OHLE systems. The contact wire is not pure copper - too soft and prone to creep under load so used to be alloyed with Cadmium but now silver is the alloying element.
Please don't say that, theft is a big-enough problem as it is! This
https://www.elandcables.com/media/38127/107mm2-copper-tin-contact-wire.pdf says it is available as a copper-tin alloy, as well as simple hard-drawn copper. I can see Network rail part numbers for several of the options, but hopefully not a lot of the silver stuff is used... Maybe that's why schemes are so expensive nowadays!
 

Domh245

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Please don't say that, theft is a big-enough problem as it is! This
https://www.elandcables.com/media/38127/107mm2-copper-tin-contact-wire.pdf says it is available as a copper-tin alloy, as well as simple hard-drawn copper. I can see Network rail part numbers for several of the options, but hopefully not a lot of the silver stuff is used... Maybe that's why schemes are so expensive nowadays!

The series 1 equipment on the GWML uses CuAg, although it is worth pointing out that it is typically only around 0.1% Silver, leaving it at ~ 99.9% Copper
 

Domh245

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Steam engines, as little as they run on the main line these days will park at a station in the exact same point every time. Usually within 20 feet of the signal light. Surely this area of cable gets a windfall of highly pressurized, highly heated coke pumped onto it? When I see this scenario in real life my eyes are on the cables more than they are on the loco (weird I know). I'm always worried the cable will snap. Is my concern warranted? Is there any truth that a steam engine can weaken the cable at the end of a platform?

I wouldn't think so. The exhaust of a steam engine isn't going to be *that* hot, nor is the heat going to be particularly efficiently transferred into the fairly small contact wire. Don't forget that copper is a very good thermal conductor, so any heat added to the wire will quickly be conducted into the rest of the wire. You may get a small amount of expansion, but that is why you have automatically tensioned wires instead of fixed tension. You certainly shouldn't get wire snapping.
 

delt1c

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Has does our failure rate compare with other European countries? I imagine many of our lines get more intensive use, plus the UK is a very windy country which doesn't help
What a load of "Male bovine species" other countries experience far greater extreme conditions than the UK without the problems experienced in. the UK, now I wonder why that is
 

D365

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As for the ECML I didn't think the problem was that bad. I have not read any threads on here about ECML disruption due to OLE faults. I imagine its wind and possibly up north a lot.

I think there was a period during 2016-17 where I was affected by nearly every OLE failure that had occured in the Retford area, these were definitely reported about here.
 

Shaw S Hunter

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What a load of "Male bovine species" other countries experience far greater extreme conditions than the UK without the problems experienced in. the UK, now I wonder why that is

TBF extreme wind events are relatively common here compared with most of our European neighbours. What we don't get are the sorts of temperature extremes that occur in Scandinavia or Switzerland.
 

Harbornite

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Steam engines, as little as they run on the main line these days will park at a station in the exact same point every time. Usually within 20 feet of the signal light. Surely this area of cable gets a windfall of highly pressurized, highly heated coke pumped onto it? When I see this scenario in real life my eyes are on the cables more than they are on the loco (weird I know). I'm always worried the cable will snap. Is my concern warranted? Is there any truth that a steam engine can weaken the cable at the end of a platform?

Thanks.

You can occasionally get flashovers.

 

Mikey C

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What a load of "Male bovine species" other countries experience far greater extreme conditions than the UK without the problems experienced in. the UK, now I wonder why that is

Eh? I wasn't trying to defend anyone, merely suggesting that weather might be an issue, and especially wind. Certainly googling "windiest countries in Europe", the UK often seems to be considered at the top, e.g.

http://www.askforevidence.org/help/is-britain-really-the-windiest-country-in-europe

And even if the Netherlands is as windy, the same doesn't apply to central Europe.
 
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