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How Late is Late?
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starrymarkb
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5 mins of published time for local/commuter
10 mins for long distance/intercity
These are measured at the final stop, hence you get lots of padding between the penultimate and last stop*.
*Padding isn't an issue on its own, but its best if spread over the journey like SBB/SWT do as the UK method of run late but arrive early at the terminus because of padding isn't good
10 mins for long distance/intercity
These are measured at the final stop, hence you get lots of padding between the penultimate and last stop*.
*Padding isn't an issue on its own, but its best if spread over the journey like SBB/SWT do as the UK method of run late but arrive early at the terminus because of padding isn't good
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It should be noted that although padding helps the PPM stats it can cause the TOCs to lose money through the Schedule 8 Performance Regime, so it's not something they are likely to use willy-nilly (unless they are dumb, which has been known).
Surreytraveller
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But if its spread out and the delay happens towards the end of the journey, the statistic fiddling won't work!
How would the South Eastern services that didn't run at all on December 22 due to snow count towards late statistics? SER don't use the void days scheme as SWT do, so do they simply not count towards any statistics that might end up in the form of a performance discount for annual season ticket holders? When I asked this question to the Customer Services line, I was told that as an annual season ticket holder I got several weeks free travel already, and thereofor wasn't entitled to anything!
Surreytraveller
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They must use void days? Did customer services say they didn't use them? The same person that says you get free weeks on your season? The free weeks on your season are to take account of holidays and sickness and still provide a benefit to not buying monthlies, not to prevent them paying compensation for delays!
Failed Unit
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I remember in the last strikes by Network Rail which effected Scotrail services no extensions were given. Yes they did provide a service on some lines between 0700 and 1800 but that wasn't much use for people that normally travel outside these times or on lines where replacement signalling staff could not be found!
Nope - I have had it confirmed that (for example) during the snow earlier in the year when not one single train ran there were no void days declared for that period - nor have any been during the 3 years I have travelled with them.
SER will have asked, and presumably been granted, 'Force Majeure' from the DfT. FM basically applies to events beyond your control, and all delays/cancellations caused by the FM are excluded from the figures. Other causes of FM can be Strikes or Units removed from service for safety reasons, etc.
Surreytraveller
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But it always used to be the case that to declare a FM or whatever you want to call it, it had to be a void day so that season ticket holders got extra days on their tickets.
But if the rest of the year has been ok as far as delays are concerned, they may not want to declare it as a FM, as they still not trigger the PPM.
But if the rest of the year has been ok as far as delays are concerned, they may not want to declare it as a FM, as they still not trigger the PPM.
Minstral25
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Southern are experts at using last stop padding - at mid-points trains are rarely on time in the rush hour (often by over 10 minutes) but still get to their destination on time! Amazing recovery rates!
The Planner
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Thats an issue with their station dwell times during the peak then, they should be looking at increaing peak time dwells and reducing the recovery time at the end of the schedule.
Sorry, but that's just a misconception on your part. There is and was no direct link. It is true that FM might have been given for the same reason that a void day was declared, but FM being given did not mean that a void day would be declared, nor did a void day being declared mean the disruption was covered by FM.
Void days hark back to Passenger's Charter ST compensation, based on time to 5/10 during the peaks only, and the reason for declaring void days was so that you didn't trigger the Charter 5% discount on Seasons. These days (i.e. in recent franchises) compensation takes the form of Delay/Repay on everything, so there's no point in declaring void days.
That said, FCC are distributing "vouchers" to Season Ticket holders as additional compensation for the recent disruption caused by driver (in)action.
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The idea of spead out padding is that the train has time to catch up on route. It's very wasteful, but it does inject a high degree of reliability. Sure it won't cover major delays, but it covers the small, regular delays that add up.
When these changes are made there's quite a lot of detailed work done to see where the time should be added. Maybe they get it wrong sometimes, but they certainly don't want to add too much time as it usually costs the TOCs money under the Schedule 8 Performance Regime.
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It may well indicate a difference between the working timetable and the public timetable. IOW they expect to get in earlier but quote a later time to the public.
Any idea what vouchers FCC are giving? I've had nothing, or any notification that I would be getting anything.
I have an annual season ticket, which will be renewed on Monday. Will I get the vouchers only for my renewed ticket (which would be somewhat cheeky as I may have paid for a year but no longer need a ticket - so why would I not get the vouchers for the disruption that affected me during the time I had a ticket)?
I have an annual season ticket, which will be renewed on Monday. Will I get the vouchers only for my renewed ticket (which would be somewhat cheeky as I may have paid for a year but no longer need a ticket - so why would I not get the vouchers for the disruption that affected me during the time I had a ticket)?
AFAIK they are issuing scratchcards for a number of journeys (5?) to all people who are on their ST database. For those who are not these was supposed to be some way to apply via the web. Doesn't look like it's kicked off yet though, so you didn't hear it from me. <tap tap>
As to why it's done this way, well it has to be approved by the DfT, and no doubt the Scottish cattle fancier. And it is over and above the normal delay/repay, so no doubt they are looking to spread the hit and maybe get a few extra names in the database for marketing purposes, etc. Just giving everyone a monkey wouldn't look very clever, would it? People get paid good money to come up with these schemes you know.
As to why it's done this way, well it has to be approved by the DfT, and no doubt the Scottish cattle fancier. And it is over and above the normal delay/repay, so no doubt they are looking to spread the hit and maybe get a few extra names in the database for marketing purposes, etc. Just giving everyone a monkey wouldn't look very clever, would it? People get paid good money to come up with these schemes you know.
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