How long is TM assessment centre pass valid?

[K086]

Hi all, I am new to this forum, so just wanted to double check something with you guys please?

I passed a TM's assessment centre back in June 2016, and was certain that it is valid for a period of 2 years. Can anyone firstly confirm this?

I was told at the time that it doesn't matter which TOC you are applying for, because this is a nationally recognised certificate, so should be valid nationwide?

It involved ticket selling/checking, group bourdon and all the usual elements and I have now recently applied for another TM role, but for another TOC.

Do I have to do this test again, or can I refuse and say I wish to automatically progress to next stage of application, even though the pass was with another company?

If so, does anybody know how I would go about this, as normally I would just ring up the company I currently work for and they would sort it, because obviously it's internal.

Is this slightly different?

Many thanks for your help.

 

[12guard4]

There isn't a set requirement for certain assessents like a driver. I may be wrong but I would have thought you would be having to redo the tests with each TOC you apply for. I assume you failed your interview first time round?

 

[K086]

There isn't a set requirement for certain assessents like a driver. I may be wrong but I would have thought you would be having to redo the tests with each TOC you apply for. I assume you failed your interview first time round?

No I didn't get to interview stage, I got to the group assessment and failed there.

I can't quite see how I can agree with your statement though, as I would have thought there would be a set requirement, seeing as it is a safety critical role, so I can't agree how different TOCS would be able to vary that?

I've noticed numerous people have read this post, but nobody seems to be coming forward with the answer.

Does this mean nobody actually knows?

Surely someone has passed a TM assessment centre and then applied for other TOC at some point?

 

[KeyRail]

I have recently completed my assessments with GWR for a TM role. I’m pretty sure that I was told that they were Valid for 3 years. I have also been invited to an assessment day for a second TOC for another TM job. I spoke to GWR, as I hoped that they could send my results to the other TOC. GWR told me that my assessment results were uploaded to a central database for any TOC to access.
Hope this help.

 

[K086]

I have recently completed my assessments with GWR for a TM role. I’m pretty sure that I was told that they were Valid for 3 years. I have also been invited to an assessment day for a second TOC for another TM job. I spoke to GWR, as I hoped that they could send my results to the other TOC. GWR told me that my assessment results were uploaded to a central database for any TOC to access.
Hope this help.

Yeah that's great. I will speak to them on Monday and see what they can do.

Cheers

 

[12guard4]

No I didn't get to interview stage, I got to the group assessment and failed there.

I can't quite see how I can agree with your statement though, as I would have thought there would be a set requirement, seeing as it is a safety critical role, so I can't agree how different TOCS would be able to vary that?

I've noticed numerous people have read this post, but nobody seems to be coming forward with the answer.

Does this mean nobody actually knows?

Surely someone has passed a TM assessment centre and then applied for other TOC at some point?

If you have failed the assessment center then you will definitely have to do it again.

 

[K086]

If you have failed the assessment center then you will definitely have to do it again.

You're not listening to me are you?

I said I passed the assessment and failed the group stage so why would I want to do it again?

 

[Yorks12]

I applied for a TM job with VTEC and was successful and offered a job with them pending a start date. In the meantime I also applied for another TM job with EMT.

When I arrived at the assessment day for EMT I explained that I had recently passed all the required tests, however they said these would not be vaild with themselves and so consequently I had to sit everything again.

Apparently each TOC has different pass marks depending on their specific requirements, although I’m not sure how much truth is in that.

 

[12guard4]

You're not listening to me are you?

I said I passed the assessment and failed the group stage so why would I want to do it again?

It's all part of the process doesn't matter which part you failed on.

 

[LETHLFH]

The Guard selection process isn't as rigid as Drivers. Northern don't even use an assessment centre as such, process is online tests, group interview, interview, medical and job offer. This leads me to believe every TOC can set its own selection criteria and assessment centre passes will be valid only with the TOC you were originally assessed by.

 

[K086]

I applied for a TM job with VTEC and was successful and offered a job with them pending a start date. In the meantime I also applied for another TM job with EMT.

When I arrived at the assessment day for EMT I explained that I had recently passed all the required tests, however they said these would not be vaild with themselves and so consequently I had to sit everything again.

Apparently each TOC has different pass marks depending on their specific requirements, although I’m not sure how much truth is in that.

That's a very interesting point, because I would imagine many would agree (some won't) that a TM job is a TM job and seeing as it's a safety critical role I would have liked to have thought that it should be a nationally recognised standard, equally across the board but maybe this isn't the case?

I'm in 2 minds really because when you are told one thing at an assessment centre and that it's valid for 2 or 3 years (cant remember) and then another TOC says they are not with them, it does make you wander if that's because it's true because of their criteria, or whether or not they can't be bothered to sort through everybody and increase the workload, as it were.

I'm quite open to this one????

 

[K086]

It's all part of the process doesn't matter which part you failed on.

I'm sorry, but yes it does matter what part you failed on.

I don't know if you work for a TOC or not, but if you do, maybe your criteria is different to ours?

If you went to an assessment centre for example and passed the ticket selling, group bourdon and rules aptitude test and passed this,
THEN move to say a group stage, before a final interview for example and then failed that bit, you do not have to go back and do the sit down test again, because you have already passed it and that is the part that is valid for 2/3 years.

Maybe you're getting confused with the drivers tests, because they come in 2 parts and if you fail one or the other, that is a fail and you only get 2 goes and you are a gonner

 

[12guard4]

I'm sorry, but yes it does matter what part you failed on.

I don't know if you work for a TOC or not, but if you do, maybe your criteria is different to ours?

If you went to an assessment centre for example and passed the ticket selling, group bourdon and rules aptitude test and passed this,
THEN move to say a group stage, before a final interview for example and then failed that bit, you do not have to go back and do the sit down test again, because you have already passed it and that is the part that is valid for 2/3 years.

Maybe you're getting confused with the drivers tests, because they come in 2 parts and if you fail one or the other, that is a fail and you only get 2 goes and you are a gonner

Not sure why you're asking questions you seem to already know all the answers. Strange you failed a group exercise, where I imagine you had to listen and communicate with people.

 

[craigybagel]

It varies between companies - I sat and passed the tests with LM and went into their talent pool. In the meantime, I applied for 3 other TOCs - 2 of them accepted my pass with LM and I only had to sit an interview (and one of those gave me a job) but the third made me sit their own tests again.

That said, this was a few years ago - I know the application process for my current TOC is now completely different from how it was then, so they may not accept passes any more - and the other TOC who accepted my pass was EMT, and someone else has mentioned that they don't do that any more.....

I guess the only safe answer here, which isn't very useful, is "it depends"?

 

[K086]

Not sure why you're asking questions you seem to already know all the answers. Strange you failed a group exercise, where I imagine you had to listen and communicate with people.

I really hope for my sake that you aren't a TM and I never end up being crewed on your train in an emergency, because the first thing that I put on my OP was to ask if a passed assessment centre was valid for other TOCS or not.

Simple question really isn't it?

You're a right hypocrite and quiet rude you are, aren't you?

Saying it's strange how I failed a group exercise and insinuating that I can't communicate and asking why I'm on here asking questions..........
Maybe you shouldn't be on here giving out inaccurate information telling people to resit the tests no matter what, when clearly that is wrong!!​

 

[Spankthemonkey]

Not sure why you're asking questions you seem to already know all the answers. Strange you failed a group exercise, where I imagine you had to listen and communicate with people.

My thoughts on the OP entirely. This whole thread made me laugh. Using phrases like "You're not listening to me are you" is likely to cause you problems when dealing with passengers!

Incidentally, with regards to the original question, basically i think the TOCs make you sit or resit whatever they want for TM roles. I passed a guards assessment for TOC 1 but failed the interview. Within 6 months i sat the driver assessments with TOC 2 and did not have to do the bourdon as a result and passed the lot. At the same time i sat the TM assessment again with TOC 3 and they made me resit the whole lot that i passed with TOC 1.

 

[K086]

My thoughts on the OP entirely. This whole thread made me laugh. Using phrases like "You're not listening to me are you" is likely to cause you problems when dealing with passengers!

Incidentally, with regards to the original question, basically i think the TOCs make you sit or resit whatever they want for TM roles. I passed a guards assessment for TOC 1 but failed the interview. Within 6 months i sat the driver assessments with TOC 2 and did not have to do the bourdon as a result and passed the lot. At the same time i sat the TM assessment again with TOC 3 and they made me resit the whole lot that i passed with TOC 1.

LOL.

And how is using phrases like that likely to cause problems with passengers?

I have worked in the railway for many years and seen this method tried/tested and successfully worked?

Sometimes passengers are such a pain the ass, things sometimes get to a stage when things like this need to be said.
They occasionally need to be told and put in their place to remind them of who is in charge, like when you say ''no'' and they do it anyway!!!!

I find ''you're not listening to me are you'' quite effective in certain circumstances, but that's me!!!

I'm not saying I am in charge in anyway whatsoever apart from on duty, but when you clearly put something in writing, someone doesn't read it properly and then comes across as quite rude, what do you expect?

I see that as quite a biased comment really , because how can one person like yourself say that is either wrong/right when different things work for different people?

Just a thought.....................

 

[Jonfun]

Half the arguments on this forum could be prevented simply by people not replying to threads with incorrect information or presenting their opinion as fact!

To summarise as best as I can:

With Guards assessments, they aren't quite as rigid as for Driver roles. Some companies will accept other companies passes, some won't. If they do, the length of time they'll allow the pass may vary though is usually two years. Some companies use the tests but don't use the OPC database (e.g. EMT), so even if you passed the test a week before they'd still make you resit it. Some companies use completely different tests to others (e.g. Merseyrail accepted my RAAT and SCAAT pass but needed me to come in for all of 20 minutes to sit a NUMST which other TOCs don't use). Some companies enforce the two fails and you're out rule (e.g. ATW), some don't (e.g. XC).

The group exercise might be a OPC test and therefore be potentially subject to the two fails rule, but probably isn't - most TOCs do their own group exercises and some don't do them at all.

To summarise, there isn't a one size fits all approach, and depending on how many times you apply to different companies you may well start to get very, intimately, familiar with the fares and ticket restrictions from Wallis to Walsash. It doesnt harm to ask the recruitment teams if you can carry over your previous pass.

 

[K086]

Half the arguments on this forum could be prevented simply by people not replying to threads with incorrect information or presenting their opinion as fact!

To summarise as best as I can:

With Guards assessments, they aren't quite as rigid as for Driver roles. Some companies will accept other companies passes, some won't. If they do, the length of time they'll allow the pass may vary though is usually two years. Some companies use the tests but don't use the OPC database (e.g. EMT), so even if you passed the test a week before they'd still make you resit it. Some companies use completely different tests to others (e.g. Merseyrail accepted my RAAT and SCAAT pass but needed me to come in for all of 20 minutes to sit a NUMST which other TOCs don't use). Some companies enforce the two fails and you're out rule (e.g. ATW), some don't (e.g. XC).

The group exercise might be a OPC test and therefore be potentially subject to the two fails rule, but probably isn't - most TOCs do their own group exercises and some don't do them at all.

To summarise, there isn't a one size fits all approach, and depending on how many times you apply to different companies you may well start to get very, intimately, familiar with the fares and ticket restrictions from Wallis to Walsash. It doesnt harm to ask the recruitment teams if you can carry over your previous pass.

I did ask and unfortunately they told me it's irrelevant if I passed it or not, so therefore would have to sit it again.

Don't see how the word ''irrelevant'' is appropriate from a recruitment manager, as a TM pass, is a pass as far as I am concerned.

It may not be valid as far as they are concerned, but it certainly isn't irrelevant, so I could have maybe chosen better words myself, but thanks for the reply anyway, appreciated.

A little birdy did tell me a lot of TOCS are extremely hap hazardous, so probably explains a thing or two!!! LOL

 

[Graminsta19]

Any insight for GWR , TM second stage assessment please?
What it comprises of?

Thanks in advance.