How much would you pay for training ?

[ComUtoR]

Would cost be a barrier to entry ?
Would you expect higher remuneration ?
Would you be an independent employee and not locked into a single TOC ?
Would you expect to be able to pick and choose your competencies, routes, traction etc ?

With a very high failure rate for the assessment stage and failures still occurring up to your ICA (Initial Competency Assessment) How much is the cost of failure an issue ?

With driving no longer a job for life and a job where you are at high risk of an operating incident would that also impact your decision ?

Certainly not an exhaustive list and there are many other factors to consider but I'm interested in the view of potential applicants just starting out on the path.

There is a different thread to discuss the aviation industry so lets try not to derail this one.

My opinion :

I wouldn't pay up front. Not only would the cost be prohibitive but you are still at the mercy of the TOC. I would want to be at a TOC where I had more perceived status. I would certainly not drive metro. I started late in life so my career is relatively limited and any cost would need to be recouped back very quickly. I have family so financial risk would be a huge concern and again, prohibitive. Sadly and a little pretentious, who would want to pay £££ to drive a train.

 

[tiptoptaff]

Despite train driving always being something I wanted to do, in my teens I was an Air Cadet and it turned my career ambition, for a time, to flying. The cost of commercial training put me off, as at the time the RAF had a pilot recruitment freeze (unlike now where they've got more trainee FastJet pilots than instructors) so I couldn't do it. There was no way my parents or I could afford the up to 100k loan needed for the training.

I feel train driving would go the same way, and only those with very rich parents would be able to do it. Taking a temporary pay cut is hard enough for some people, let alone being unpaid and self-funding up to 50k in training fees.

The risk is also too great. If you fail you've lost it all and still have to pay back the loan you've taken out.

I wouldn't pay. If I had to pay to do it, I'd just stick to the heritage stuff I'm involved with and do it as a hobby. Thus still achieving boyhood dream. One of the reasons I'm doing it professionally is the financial reward and the future that will give my daughter.

 

[RBSN]

Leave it up to the TOCs to send you to the assessments providing you meet the correct aptitude in the first instance.

 

[MostlyHarmless]

I wouldn't pay mainly because, like the OP, I'm trying to get in later in life and so recouping the cost would impact any increase in potential earnings from my current job (which is already reasonably well paid). I really want to become a train driver, but not at any cost (if you'll excuse the pun)

 

[PudseyBearHST]

Would cost be a barrier to entry ?
Would you expect higher remuneration ?
Would you be an independent employee and not locked into a single TOC ?
Would you expect to be able to pick and choose your competencies, routes, traction etc ?

With a very high failure rate for the assessment stage and failures still occurring up to your ICA (Initial Competency Assessment) How much is the cost of failure an issue ?

With driving no longer a job for life and a job where you are at high risk of an operating incident would that also impact your decision ?

Certainly not an exhaustive list and there are many other factors to consider but I'm interested in the view of potential applicants just starting out on the path.

There is a different thread to discuss the aviation industry so lets try not to derail this one.

My opinion :

I wouldn't pay up front. Not only would the cost be prohibitive but you are still at the mercy of the TOC. I would want to be at a TOC where I had more perceived status. I would certainly not drive metro. I started late in life so my career is relatively limited and any cost would need to be recouped back very quickly. I have family so financial risk would be a huge concern and again, prohibitive. Sadly and a little pretentious, who would want to pay £££ to drive a train.

Another thought: What if you don’t have to pay for training but you don’t get paid during training?
Typically companies pay £25-35k salary during training so even just eliminating this would make a train driver’s job unreachable for many.

 

[JSegat]

Another thought: What if you don’t have to pay for training but you don’t get paid during training?
Typically companies pay £25-35k salary during training so even just eliminating this would make a train driver’s job unreachable for many.

I would say, don't give food for thought, there is people taking pay cuts just to be able to be a trainee and have a family to feed. If it was unpaid, only people that have money would be able to afford to stay for this long period without payment.

 

[ComUtoR]

Would a repayment scheme help ?

I would agree that an upfront cost would shift the dynamic to those who can afford it but what if all the costs were recouped through a reduction in salary ? Our first year Drivers are on around £5k less and during training they are paid at a training rate. Granted this is about paying up front but..

Another thought: What if you don’t have to pay for training but you don’t get paid during training?
Typically companies pay £25-35k salary during training so even just eliminating this would make a train driver’s job unreachable for many.

I got to about there before I realised that the TOC probably wouldn't take the hit. Employer loans are not unheard but isn't the point of paying for your training is that the TOC has less costs so passes that back in salary ? They already recoup it, as you say by lower training wages.

Imagine if this was possible and then you got 2yrs in and then stopped short ? If the TOC has loaned you the training costs but you lose your job you would be left with a huge debt to repay and no job to pay it with. I think you would also be locked into that TOC till you repaid back any employee loans :/

The apprentice scheme is a bit of a scam but it does manage to achieve your goal. Low training wage (seriously low) I would wonder hwo low they could justify a Trainee Driver role. I can't remember the Virgin schemes salary and there is a couple of Apprentice Drivers at my TOC but the apprentice Platform staff were getting £100pw !

Nobody has voted in the positive yet. I'd love to hear any view that would support some form of payment.

 

[baz962]

As I am in the same boat , as insofar as I could neither afford to pay and afford a pay cut , I simply could not justify it. I started training a month before my 48th , and am taking my final assessment in two weeks. I would be quite nervous about now if I had my own money riding on it.

 

[Trainguy90]

In short private training should not be available, Tocs and Focs pay as they are the ones who want/need the drivers, However I have nothing against a possible reduction in pay for the first couple of years during training and PostQual which I know a few companies do,
I’ve always like the model that companies like EMT have where you have a line of progression starting off in the depot and then working towards mainline

 

[Driver2B]

A really interesting discussion!

As some people on this forum have said, half of the problem is getting through the sift to get to assessment day!

I've been binned by two TOCs, but another sent me for assessments and I passed!

I've heard (correctly or incorrectly) that if you've already passed assessments, you're almost guarranteed to get through sifts in the future.

Personally, I would certainly have paid to get my assessments done! However, I do understand that it could be the thin end of the wedge getting trainees to pay for their own training, which for me, like many others, would not be possible.

 

[beany]

I've voted wouldn't pay as I'd hate to see learning to drive a train as something only those with money could do,similar to learning to fly and I know what type of person tend to become pilots as I used to speak to them everyday in my previous job before getting on the railway.
BUT if I really wanted it,then you would find the money somehow to get there,but it's not fair.
I think if TOCs were more organised and the whole recruitment process was less delayed and more universally structured (no enhanced passes,national passes etc) then people could apply,within a short time know if they were successful or not and then be possibly employed as a trainee.
Remember learning to drive has no guarantee of becoming a qualified driver,it's a full on,tough year of your life,in my case year and a half.And I think if many who apply knew what they had in front of them to learn,they may have second thoughts about it,especially if they were putting up 20k or whatever to do it.

 

[GMT]

At my age I wouldn't pay. If I were younger, perhaps. But I don't like when things are imposed, therefore if I was younger I would have probably and reluctantly turned my attention to different fields like environmental issues (i.e. pollution control) or studied to become a professional gardener or holticulturist. Unfortunately, I got stuck in accounting. However, I voted I wouldn't pay. Mind you, if I succeded in getting an offer from a FOC/TOC I would have to take a pay cut during the training, not a major one though.