How often are quiet coaches actually quiet?

[dk1]

In Denmark it was pointed out to me that the quiet coach meant "no talking". My mate and I were just talking quietly and had the sign pointed out by another passenger.

Might as well put book shelves up then lol.

 

[Deepgreen]

I'd have asked him politely rather than dismissively pointing to the sign to be fair.

It's a tricky one. The signage is feeble - for those who are glued to their phones it needs to be extremely obvious that it is a quiet coach (perhaps with frequent loud announcements to that effect!). However, Brian W's experience is an all-too-typical modern one - the attitude that not only ignores the rules, but twists them to make the enforcer 'in the wrong'. A couple of years ago I was travelling in a GWR Turbo end section, and I was the only one there until a woman entered, sat down and proceeded to have a long and very loud conversation via speakers on her phone. After a while, as we were the only two there, I put my phone to speaker and started playing loud music. It took a while for her to twig, and she asked me to turn it down. I said; I will if you will, which produced a huffy attitude, but she stopped. Of course this only works if only you and one another are affected - I wouldn't have done that if others were present. BTW, the answer to the potential question; would I have done that with a man is; oh yes! While this wasn't a designated quiet coach, the principle of consideration and good behaviour applies just the same.

 

[Warrior2852]

When building (or refurbishing) Quiet coaches.
1) Remove any WiFi from the Quiet coach
2) Include a fine copper mesh in the windows, and around the the ceiling/floor (behind any fascia), to create a Faraday Cage.

Although it won't stop the playing of pre-installed music, it will prevent phone calls, and video/music streaming. Anyone who needs to make/receive a call can then go into the vestibule to do so.

Anything from the Voyager/Meridian family already does both of these, not intentionally though, just nothing works!

 

[Krokodil]

To have a play area you remove seats and tables and lay out a proper play area on the floor. It's not a non-starter, ask the Swiss.

It's a non-starter in the UK. "Pack them in and stack them high" is the approach to capacity here, rather than leasing enough vehicles for the demand.

The idea of a quiet coach should be what it says though. Noise from phone calls is no louder than people having loud conversations.

1. How many people use their 'inside voice' when on the phone'
2. You can only hear one half of the conversation so your brain is subconsciously trying to fill in the blanks. For this reason it's more distracting.
3. "Hello, can you hear me? I'm on the train! There might be a tunnel. Can you hear me?"

Conversing with the person next to you is fine as long as it's reasonably quiet.

Yes, low voices are fine.

I personally think you are living a little too much in the past with the compartment comment. Not so much defeatist as realistic.

Don't DB ICEs have compartments where businessmen can take private phone calls? They've certainly got family compartments.

I was on a Chiltern Train to London one time in a Quiet Zone. A lady kept facetiming with her boyfriend and played Tiktok very loudly.

After the polite request was met with abuse, and no sign of the guard, I'd have been tempted to take matters into my own hands. Either ejecting the device from the saloon, or by having an "accident" with a liquid.

I went to London on an Avanti service the other weekend and was impressed when a woman reminded her husband that he should go into the vestibule to take a call. The signs need to be more obvious, there's only a handful of them - they should be pasted on every seat back and table so that ignorance can never be an excuse. The wheelchair space on a Voyager is in the quiet coach and is frequently blocked by buggies whose occupants are too young to know the etiquette.

 

[island]

Sadly since the demise of HSTs it's no longer possible to threaten to yeet offending devices through the nearest available droplight...

 

[gabrielhj07]

Happily, hopper windows remain available where rolling stock permits.

 

[TT-ONR-NRN]

Quiet coaches were introduced to keep mobile phone & noise from devices to a minimum. Was nothing to do with conversation between passengers.

Personally I’d get rid of them as they are more trouble than they are worth particularly for the poor guard & onboard crew who have to police or get involved with petty quarrels.

In New South Wales it does include chatting, and automated announcements on H Sets which have Quiet Zones say “There are two quiet zones on this train - one at the front, and one at the rear. You’re welcome to move to another carriage if you want to make calls or chat.”

They’re typically better observed than in England, so I often choose to use these. If someone was being noisy I wouldn’t simply point at the sign. I think that’s rather rude tbh, especially as they might not know. I’d very politely ask if they’d mind making the call or continuing the loud conversation in a non-quiet carriage.

H Sets and V Sets have 2 out of 4 carriages as quiet zones, with only intermediate cars not quiet zones. This becomes 4 of 8 for paired sets. Endeavour railcars have 1 of 2. This is too much provision I think, much as I appreciate quiet zones. A quarter of a train seems about right. I’d like a third but I doubt it’d be popular. Half is too much, and especially shouldn’t be in evidence on a 2 carriage train. Ironically these trains work journeys of upto 3.5 hours MAX. The very long distance XPTs or XPlorers don’t have one which drives me mad. I’d love one on those.

Happily, hopper windows remain available where rolling stock permits.

Where rolling stock permits but regulation compliance does not

 

[Krokodil]

Happily, hopper windows remain available where rolling stock permits.

How many 150s have quiet zones? Though still useful if they're playing music or watching films as that's prohibited by the bylaws anyway.

 

[BrianW]

It's a tricky one. The signage is feeble - for those who are glued to their phones it needs to be extremely obvious that it is a quiet coach (perhaps with frequent loud announcements to that effect!). However, Brian W's experience is an all-too-typical modern one - the attitude that not only ignores the rules, but twists them to make the enforcer 'in the wrong'. A couple of years ago I was travelling in a GWR Turbo end section, and I was the only one there until a woman entered, sat down and proceeded to have a long and very loud conversation via speakers on her phone. After a while, as we were the only two there, I put my phone to speaker and started playing loud music. It took a while for her to twig, and she asked me to turn it down. I said; I will if you will, which produced a huffy attitude, but she stopped. Of course this only works if only you and one another are affected - I wouldn't have done that if others were present. BTW, the answer to the potential question; would I have done that with a man is; oh yes! While this wasn't a designated quiet coach, the principle of consideration and good behaviour applies just the same.

Thank you Deepgreen. As i read Retorus' retort I found myself repressing my fulmination- 'so it's *my* fault?!! I spend a lot of time trying to weigh up the right way to interact with my fellow human beings. I was the only occupant of the Quiet Coach (until the loud person got in) and I was concerned for 'a quiet life'. One hears of 'old gits' being disrespected and worse.

 

[subk2010]

After the polite request was met with abuse, and no sign of the guard, I'd have been tempted to take matters into my own hands. Either ejecting the device from the saloon, or by having an "accident" with a liquid.

I admire your courage greatly, to be honest, such people need some lessons!

 

[Bikeman78]

How many 150s have quiet zones? Though still useful if they're playing music or watching films as that's prohibited by the bylaws anyway.

If you sit above the engine, that will drown out the mobile irritations quite well.

 

[satisnek]

I travelled in a busy quiet coach today. Generally, everyone was compliant but I noticed more than once 'the smartphone noise turned down hastily'. The sad fact is that a majority of society now (watch and) listen to this crap, so it's hardly surprising that the more self-important contingent will take no notice of 'quiet coach' labelling.

I admire those who play their own music as a response (although I would rather have a Bluetooth speaker myself, which I haven't got), but the problem here is that you're then in breach of Railway Byelaws yourself. In my bitter experience, if you fight fire with fire then you can get burnt.

 

[matthewjohnson]

Today's "Quiet" Coach shenanigans on the 16.03 CrossCountry from Birmingham include the usual loud speaker phone conversation, and someone merrily whistling away to himself!

 

[BenS123]

2) Include a fine copper mesh in the windows, and around the the ceiling/floor (behind any fascia), to create a Faraday Cage.

Using equipment designed to block phone signal is illegal

Radio frequency jammers

Information relating to the use of jammers to block radio equipment from functioning properly.

www.ofcom.org.uk

It is a crime to use any apparatus, including jammers, for the purposes of deliberately interfering with wireless telegraphy (radio communications) in the UK. The maximum penalty is two years’ imprisonment and/or an unlimited fine. See section 68 of the Wireless Telegraphy Act 2006.

Deliberately blocking a phone signal would be interfering with radio communications.

68: Deliberate interference

(1)A person commits an offence if he uses apparatus for the purpose of interfering with wireless telegraphy.

 

[bramling]

Using equipment designed to block phone signal is illegal

Radio frequency jammers

Information relating to the use of jammers to block radio equipment from functioning properly.

www.ofcom.org.uk

Deliberately blocking a phone signal would be interfering with radio communications.

I have to say there’s been times when I’ve longed to have a device which could be switched on to block mobile signal in an immediate vicinity.

To be completely honest, I think were such to be conveniently available, I’d be prepared to take my chances with breaking this law at times.

 

[al78]

The real problem is, of course, the fact that an increasing proportion of the population don’t seem to understand how to behave in public spaces nowadays, and Covid seems to have made this very much worse. Maybe it’s a touch of rose-tinted spectacles however I found rail travel a lot more civilised in the 80s and 90s. Like everything in this country, things seem to have gone downhill.

The real problem is many people are selfish and thoughtless and don't give a toss about others. This is encouraged through the reluctance to call such people out on their behaviour, sometimes for safety reasons (i.e. don't start anything you can't finish), sometimes because someone can't be bothered, sometimes because it is unlikely to achieve anything if you are not an authoritive figure, as they can just retailate with you powerless to do anything. Once poor behaviour is allowed to continue repeatedly without consequence, it becomes an entitlement at which point it is too late to do anything, and the quality of life goes down as more and more people have to put up with the externalised costs of the morally dead.

 

[Meglos]

Using equipment designed to block phone signal is illegal

Deliberately blocking a phone signal would be interfering with radio communications.

Faraday cages are not deemed as equipment designed to block phone signals. It's seen as a creative use of a natural phenomena to prevent the passage of certain wavelengths within the electromagnetic specrtum.

Faraday Cage | Oddity Central - Collecting Oddities

www.odditycentral.com

The owner of the bar was never prosecuted as he never broke the law.

 

[Krokodil]

Today's "Quiet" Coach shenanigans on the 16.03 CrossCountry from Birmingham include the usual loud speaker phone conversation, and someone merrily whistling away to himself!

I didn't think that XC Voyagers still had Quiet Coaches.

 

[BJames]

Much as the concept of ID cards and "social credit" chills my soul, I begin to wonder if in an environment of "always on" social media addiction and immediate shameless self-gratification, the only way to maintain a consistent level of pro-social behaviour is the use of social credit. I truly hope not.

TPO

Off topic but I have to just say absolutely not. It chills my soul too and there is no benefit that I could see this bring that would make me happy with the concept of it.

I do fully agree with the premise that social media addiction (in some cases, I've seen people with phone screen time of over 10 hours a day) has caused a serious problem but we need to think of a better way than social credit.

On topic, I tried quiet coaches a few times but gave up, no point. Just bring my headphones and listen to my music or a podcast. I have to admit that some of the behaviours mentioned above that take place in a quiet coach are things I would find frustrating in a normal carriage; indeed, people playing videos out loud (and sometimes really loudly) is one of them.

 

[Llanigraham]

I have to say there’s been times when I’ve longed to have a device which could be switched on to block mobile signal in an immediate vicinity.

To be completely honest, I think were such to be conveniently available, I’d be prepared to take my chances with breaking this law at times.

And in using one on a train would probably block the GSM-R system that the railway uses for it's safety communications.
Do you really want that?

 

[dk1]

I didn't think that XC Voyagers still had Quiet Coaches.

Neither did I. They tried it years ago with Family Coaches. Absolute disaster on a 4 coach 220 lol.

 

[bramling]

The real problem is many people are selfish and thoughtless and don't give a toss about others. This is encouraged through the reluctance to call such people out on their behaviour, sometimes for safety reasons (i.e. don't start anything you can't finish), sometimes because someone can't be bothered, sometimes because it is unlikely to achieve anything if you are not an authoritive figure, as they can just retailate with you powerless to do anything. Once poor behaviour is allowed to continue repeatedly without consequence, it becomes an entitlement at which point it is too late to do anything, and the quality of life goes down as more and more people have to put up with the externalised costs of the morally dead.

Oh yes agreed entirely. It certainly seems to have got worse though. I just don’t remember ignorance being as widespread a generation ago. Of course things would happen, but nowadays it seems to be *all* the time, wherever one goes.

 

[matthewjohnson]

I didn't think that XC Voyagers still had Quiet Coaches.

It was a HST, which incidentally always makes my day when I travel with XC and that turns up. Absolutely love them, always have.

 

[Krokodil]

It was a HST, which incidentally always makes my day when I travel with XC and that turns up. Absolutely love them, always have.

Ah, it turns out that two XC trains depart from BHM at 1603. I was looking at the double Voyager to Bournemouth.

Oh yes agreed entirely. It certainly seems to have got worse though. I just don’t remember ignorance being as widespread a generation ago. Of course things would happen, but nowadays it seems to be *all* the time, wherever one goes.

The public were always bad, but they certainly weren't this bad in 2019.

 

[Flying Snail]

I have to say there’s been times when I’ve longed to have a device which could be switched on to block mobile signal in an immediate vicinity.

To be completely honest, I think were such to be conveniently available, I’d be prepared to take my chances with breaking this law at times.

I have one. I bought it and used it when I was still driving buses/coaches, it was very handy for dealing with the Dom Joly impersonators when I didn't want to have an argument with them, just flick a switch and within a minute the irritation was gone.

 

[BeijingDave]

Anti-social noise in the quiet coach drives me mad.

I also feel sorry for the railway staff, they can't really be expected to police it. Young Connor Asbo with 18 years of bad upbringing will just tell them and any intervening passengers to f*** off.

I have, in the past six months, bought a serious pair of noise cancelling earphones so that I don't have to put up with idiots on mobile phones or playing their TikTok videos with the sound up.

 

[al78]

Anti-social noise in the quiet coach drives me mad.

I also feel sorry for the railway staff, they can't really be expected to police it. Young Connor Asbo with 18 years of bad upbringing will just tell them and any intervening passengers to f*** off.

Yes, because they can without consequence, and is an unfortunate side effect of living in a civilised society. In a more barbaric society, young Connor would have his nose broken every time he failed the attitude test and would soon stop engaging in behaviour where consequences are worse than any gain. It is also why there have in the past been cases where people have taken the law into their own hands, because they are sick of untouchable scrotes and have failed to resist the desire to inflict their own punishment.

 

[gabrielhj07]

I’m not in the quiet coach, but I was nevertheless disappointed when a pair of ‘youths’ boarded 1P34 just now at Evesham and set about burping loudly for all the carriage to enjoy.

 

[Parjon]

I have one. I bought it and used it when I was still driving buses/coaches, it was very handy for dealing with the Dom Joly impersonators when I didn't want to have an argument with them, just flick a switch and within a minute the irritation was gone.

We need something similar that blocks tic tac, social platform of and for the über moron.

 

[Runningaround]

We need something similar that blocks tic tac, social platform of and for the über moron.

What about You Tube for those who think that walking up and down a train filming everywhere they go including the toilets and narrating as they go for the interests of the two subscribers to their channel.