How to close the BML in one easy go.

[sarahj]

Haywards Heath today. ooppps








Pic shows a metal trolley full of boxes that has fallen onto the track.

 

[ComUtoR]

5 minute job; tops. Line block, litter picking stick.

 

[godfreycomplex]

Wa wa waaaaaaa
Nice to see a bloke standing at the side scratching his head in the time honoured fashion
Perhaps the cardboard was put down there to soak up a spill made by a "water train"...

 

[sarahj]

5 minute job; tops. Line block, litter picking stick.

You would think.

Line block,
Current off
Wait for MOM
Canx trains
Brighton in chaos.

Did not help that the blue trolley was nice and metally.

 

[theironroad]

You would think.

Line block,
Current off
Wait for MOM
Canx trains
Brighton in chaos.

Did not help that the blue trolley was nice and metally.

Except none of the metally trolley was in contact with the juice rail and could have been retrieved from the platform and the rest looks like cardboard and general trash that could also have been recovered from the platform.

Waiting for a mom.....The railway really has gone mad.

 

[313103]

Except none of the metally trolley was in contact with the juice rail and could have been retrieved from the platform and the rest looks like cardboard and general trash that could also have been recovered from the platform.

Waiting for a mom.....The railway really has gone mad.

Unless it is a emergency, staff unless they have the required track certificates are not permitted to go line side. If it was seen as someone just decided to go on the track even after isolation has been given without the neccasary safety certificates I could envisage a suspension coming his/her way, with a charge of gross misconduct and future loss of job. So best to watch the system grind to a halt, no matter what we may think no idiot is going to risk losing there job.

 

[Cowley]

Brilliant

 

[theironroad]

Unless it is a emergency, staff unless they have the required track certificates are not permitted to go line side. If it was seen as someone just decided to go on the track even after isolation has been given without the neccasary safety certificates I could envisage a suspension coming his/her way, with a charge of gross misconduct and future loss of job. So best to watch the system grind to a halt, no matter what we may think no idiot is going to risk losing there job.

Err......where did I suggest anyone should go on the track?

And just for clarification i do NOT suggest anyone who isn't trained or have the necessary line block protections should go on the track.

Most of that stuff, especially the crucial metal trolley could have been recovered FROM the platform.

 

[Llanigraham]

Err......where did I suggest anyone should go on the track?

And just for clarification i do NOT suggest anyone who isn't trained or have the necessary line block protections should go on the track.

Most of that stuff, especially the crucial metal trolley could have been recovered FROM the platform.

Were you there? NO
Do you know what was in the boxes? NO
Do you know if the boxes were empty? NO
Do you know if there were litter pickers available? NO
Do you know anything about the incident other than from the photograph? NO
Are you wildly speculating? YES
Are you using this to pointlessly complain about the railway? YES

 

[313103]

Err......where did I suggest anyone should go on the track?

And just for clarification i do NOT suggest anyone who isn't trained or have the necessary line block protections should go on the track.

Most of that stuff, especially the crucial metal trolley could have been recovered FROM the platform.

Not going to get drawn into a petty argument just going ask you one question How would you recover the metal trolley from the track without going onto the track ?

 

[Nippy]

It is crap though, station staff should have some form of training that allows them to access the line in specific situations. That could have been dealt with in less than five minutes. Staff phone signaller for a line block, signaller grants blockage, staff remove things, give up line block, job done. Granted it may be slightly trickier with the third rail as you may have get the ECRO involved, however, when I was having my PTS training in 1993, we were shown how to operate hook switches. Senior platform staff used to be able to flag signals and wind/clip points.

 

[Carlisle]

Unless it is a emergency, staff unless they have the required track certificates are not permitted to go line side. If it was seen as someone just decided to go on the track even after isolation has been given without the neccasary safety certificates I could envisage a suspension coming his/her way, with a charge of gross misconduct and future loss of job. So best to watch the system grind to a halt, no matter what we may think no idiot is going to risk losing there job.

Yes, I'm sure many will remember the sacking a few years back of a guy at Lymington Town station supposedly for removing a similar article from the tracks without proper authority

 

[AlterEgo]

Yes, I'm sure many will remember the sacking a few years back of a guy at Lymington Town station supposedly for removing a similar article from the tracks without proper authority

Ian Faletto. Wonder what he's doing now.

 

[313103]

It is crap though, station staff should have some form of training that allows them to access the line in specific situations. That could have been dealt with in less than five minutes. Staff phone signaller for a line block, signaller grants blockage, staff remove things, give up line block, job done. Granted it may be slightly trickier with the third rail as you may have get the ECRO involved, however, when I was having my PTS training in 1993, we were shown how to operate hook switches. Senior platform staff used to be able to flag signals and wind/clip points.

And I don't disagree that it's crap, but you know, I know and everyone else knows to have the relevant certificates means it costs more to have the staff trained and retrained on a yearly basis, to be assessed on regular basis costs more. When I started everyone was trained the same as every member of staff had access to the railway. Now it's all about the money.

 

[Sunset route]

It is crap though, station staff should have some form of training that allows them to access the line in specific situations. That could have been dealt with in less than five minutes. Staff phone signaller for a line block, signaller grants blockage, staff remove things, give up line block, job done. Granted it may be slightly trickier with the third rail as you may have get the ECRO involved, however, when I was having my PTS training in 1993, we were shown how to operate hook switches. Senior platform staff used to be able to flag signals and wind/clip points.

We are now 25 years+ into this glorious privatisation model and all the broad sweep of competences of the British Rail Staff used to hold have now been risk assessed out as the insurance was too great for the smaller commercial TOCs to pay for. So Railtrack invented the new grade of FM (Field Manager) now MOM (mobile operations manager) to cover for jobs like this. The only thing is, they are a very thinly dispersed asset that doesn't bring in any revenue but add to the cost of the railway so w scape by with just enough to cover whole areas, but if they are the wrong side of their patch then the railway has to wait.

 

[route:oxford]

Maybe best not to economise with unbraked trolleys that can roll onto the line.

 

[158747]

Were you there? NO
Do you know what was in the boxes? NO
Do you know if the boxes were empty? NO
Do you know if there were litter pickers available? NO
Do you know anything about the incident other than from the photograph? NO
Are you wildly speculating? YES
Are you using this to pointlessly complain about the railway? YES

Looks like empty boxes and other bagged rubbish to me.

 

[BestWestern]

Err......where did I suggest anyone should go on the track?

And just for clarification i do NOT suggest anyone who isn't trained or have the necessary line block protections should go on the track.

Most of that stuff, especially the crucial metal trolley could have been recovered FROM the platform.

You aren't going to recover a probably very weighty metal trolley from the platform, except with the aid of some sort of small industrial crane. Very unlikely. The practical solution is for it to be manhandled back up onto the platform.

 

[LowLevel]

Station staff are permitted to access the line for this kind of event, without a PTS certificate, providing they get a line blockage. That's always been the case and remains so, to enable them to recover lost property and the like.

 

[BestWestern]

Station staff are permitted to access the line for this kind of event, without a PTS certificate, providing they get a line blockage. That's always been the case and remains so, to enable them to recover lost property and the like.

I'd imagine that would depend on individual TOC policy these days...

 

[syorksdeano]

Do you know if there were litter pickers available? NO

I can see one in the background

 

[DynamicSpirit]

You would think.

Line block,
Current off
Wait for MOM
Canx trains
Brighton in chaos.

Did not help that the blue trolley was nice and metally.

May be a silly question, but: Don't both the up and the down lines split at Haywards Heath into two tracks in each direction? Wouldn't it have been possible to keep trains running, but route all the ones scheduled to go over the affected track into the other platform for that direction instead, until people were ready to safely pick up the trolley? Could the timetable have (roughly) coped with that without too much disruption?

 

[LowLevel]

I'd imagine that would depend on individual TOC policy these days...

It's always been a rulebook provision - whether the TOC chooses to take advantage of it is up to them I guess. We mostly used it during the night so as to avoid messing up the train service but I remember once a large box blew on to the line and we removed it during the day.

The requirement was that the staff had been briefed on the location (usually done on our rules, we were issued with a grand total of one page of the sectional appendix formally!!), wore a hi vis and took a line blockage from the signaller.

 

[Antman]

May be a silly question, but: Don't both the up and the down lines split at Haywards Heath into two tracks in each direction? Wouldn't it have been possible to keep trains running, but route all the ones scheduled to go over the affected track into the other platform for that direction instead, until people were ready to safely pick up the trolley? Could the timetable have (roughly) coped with that without too much disruption?

That's exactly what I thought.

 

[Sunset route]

May be a silly question, but: Don't both the up and the down lines split at Haywards Heath into two tracks in each direction? Wouldn't it have been possible to keep trains running, but route all the ones scheduled to go over the affected track into the other platform for that direction instead, until people were ready to safely pick up the trolley? Could the timetable have (roughly) coped with that without too much disruption?

This is indeed what happened, but it's not helped by two up attachments and two down detachments every hour that have train overtaking while they take place. Also as it not a planned or temporary current switch off of the electrical sections but an emergency switch off including the abutting sections which would of closed most of the railway from Hassocks to Balocombe Jcn. So a way was found just to switch off from Copyhold Jcn to Haywards Heath for the Up + Dn main lines instead as it wasn't a true life or death type of emergency switch off.

 

[sarahj]

May be a silly question, but: Don't both the up and the down lines split at Haywards Heath into two tracks in each direction? Wouldn't it have been possible to keep trains running, but route all the ones scheduled to go over the affected track into the other platform for that direction instead, until people were ready to safely pick up the trolley? Could the timetable have (roughly) coped with that without too much disruption?

As another has said, Haywards Heath is used to the splitting of the Eastbourne (ore) and Littlehampton trains, and with 10/12 trains an hour, each way, things soon back up.

2 x GTX (fast)
2X Btn-Vics Semi (fast)
2X TL Btn -Bed
2X TL Btn - LBG
2x Vic-Ebn/Ore/Lit Or 2XNB, 4XSB 7-8 mins to split.

People keep talking about using a litter picker. It was a metal trolley. The pickers can do phones/Wallets/Bit of paper, but anything bigger is not easy. The station staff can get a temp block for picking up stuff like that, but to go on the track.... I think not.

 

[221129]

Maybe best not to economise with unbraked trolleys that can roll onto the line.

I think you'll find it is braked. Whether they were put on or not is a different story.

 

[Skimpot flyer]

Ian Faletto. Wonder what he's doing now.

He inserted an 's' into his surname and joined the opera

 

[DynamicSpirit]

This is indeed what happened, but it's not helped by two up attachments and two down detachments every hour that have train overtaking while they take place. Also as it not a planned or temporary current switch off of the electrical sections but an emergency switch off including the abutting sections which would of closed most of the railway from Hassocks to Balocombe Jcn. So a way was found just to switch off from Copyhold Jcn to Haywards Heath for the Up + Dn main lines instead as it wasn't a true life or death type of emergency switch off.

Ah, fair enough. Ta for the explanation. That all sounds very reasonable.

 

[DynamicSpirit]

People keep talking about using a litter picker. It was a metal trolley. The pickers can do phones/Wallets/Bit of paper, but anything bigger is not easy. The station staff can get a temp block for picking up stuff like that, but to go on the track.... I think not.

He he. I'll plead 'not guilty' there - since I myself never mentioned a litter picker. I agree that using a litter picker would be pretty hard on something as big as that. And of course, even if using a litter picker were (theoretically) possible, with that amount of debris covering the whole track including the 3rd rail, you'd still have to switch the power off first.