HS2 hub in Brackley

[JonathanH]

Build a Cherwell Valley Parkway off the B430 near M40 J10. Sorted.

What for? We hardly want to be encouraging driving to an out of town station and I expect the locals don't want a megacity built there. HS2 is not there for encouraging the growth of a major settlement in green countryside - it is to link up our existing major settlements. The reasons for not building an intermediate station between Old Oak Common and Birmingham Interchange are set out in this thread (and others).

 

[A0]

Is not Brackley slightly east of Daventry?

About the same - but Daventry is closer to Northampton and Rugby, so isn't as 'isolated' as Brackley.

With no through ticketing and not great coordination.

It's time people started providing evidence that this was a barrier to travelling - because this gets trotted out by no shortage of posters, but with little evidence it makes any difference in most cases. It makes a difference in London or Manchester, but on average you're talking about people travelling much shorter distances to begin with and there are multiple ways to complete a journey.

The roads to those places are not easy and the car parks expensive. It is understandable if people there are not happy to have a train line built near them if it becomes little easier to catch trains. I know some say connecting the towns near HS2 is not the job of HS2 but it seems like a missed opportunity to build support for the project.

There is little wrong with those roads - if you think they "aren't easy" then you have a strange definition of easy.

I'll contest your point about parking being "expensive" - it's about par for the course across the stations in Northants. And you'll struggle to park in most of those towns for less on a daily basis.

Banbury £ 8.50 (peak)
Bicester North £ 8.50 (peak)
Northampton £11 (peak)
Wellingborough £ 10 (peak)
Kettering

 

[The Planner]

What for? We hardly want to be encouraging driving to an out of town station and I expect the locals don't want a megacity built there. HS2 is not there for encouraging the growth of a major settlement in green countryside - it is to link up our existing major settlements. The reasons for not building an intermediate station between Old Oak Common and Birmingham Interchange are set out in this thread (and others).

In terms of the Ardley Parkway suggestion, it isn't as though we don't encourage this, look at Worcestershire Parkway, the proposed Rugby Parkway and lots of other stations that draw drivers in such as Haddenham, Didcot, Birmingham International etc... in terms of bonkers suggestions, this isn't at the top in my view.

 

[JonathanH]

In terms of the Ardley Parkway suggestion, it isn't as though we don't encourage this, look at Worcestershire Parkway, the proposed Rugby Parkway and lots of other stations that draw drivers in such as Haddenham, Didcot, Birmingham International etc... in terms of bonkers suggestions, this isn't at the top in my view.

I agree, indeed you could argue that Toton or the Birmingham Interchange had some of those characteristics but it would seem more appropriate to put a parkway station somewhere between Banbury and Leamington on the existing classic network than on HS2.

 

[Bald Rick]

I agree, indeed you could argue that Toton or the Birmingham Interchange had some of those characteristics but it would seem more appropriate to put a parkway station somewhere between Banbury and Leamington on the existing classic network than on HS2.

I think that’s what @adamedwards meant, ie a parkway north of Bicester on the Chiltern.

 

[ashkeba]

It's time people started providing evidence that this was a barrier to travelling - because this gets trotted out by no shortage of posters, but with little evidence it makes any difference in most cases. It makes a difference in London or Manchester, but on average you're talking about people travelling much shorter distances to begin with and there are multiple ways to complete a journey.

Must we prove water is wet now, too? I know there are more evidence works about places like London and Manchester but has there ever been a case where ticket and timetable integration has reduced usage? Is no-one collecting evidence about the effectiveness of PlusBus and the through tickets that did exist?

There is little wrong with those roads - if you think they "aren't easy" then you have a strange definition of easy.

The A43 is an easy road: dual carriageway, fairly straight, fairly well signed and good junctions. The A422 Brackley to Banbury is none of those. I think you have a strange definition of easy if it includes long areas of solid white no-passing lines, many yellow warning signs and 50mph limits. And then when you get to Banbury, you have to drive through half the town to reach the expensive railway station car park.

I'll contest your point about parking being "expensive" - it's about par for the course across the stations in Northants. And you'll struggle to park in most of those towns for less on a daily basis.

That does not make it cheap or correct. If people are priced out of parking at their supposed railheads and the bus link is not integral, then it is no longer really a railhead and many people will just drive all the way to their destination and doom the railway industry and the environment.

Why does someone on a rail forum oppose making rail use easier?

 

[Ianno87]

Must we prove water is wet now, too? I know there are more evidence works about places like London and Manchester but has there ever been a case where ticket and timetable integration has reduced usage? Is no-one collecting evidence about the effectiveness of PlusBus and the through tickets that did exist?

I think almost the opposite is often true - people happily buy seperate tickets unaware a cheaper combined ticket is available! At University I was amazed by the number of fellow students on day trips to Birmingham happilly buying seperate bus and train tickets even though a Wedt Midlands Daytripper was cheaper...

PlusBus I think largely has the effect of either:
-Giving people who would've travelled anyway a cheaper ticket, or
-Incentivising jumping on a bus to/from the station rather than car/taxi. I doubt many people make a rail journey *because* they can get a PlusBus at the end of it!

 

[A0]

Why does someone on a rail forum oppose making rail use easier?

Because as some of us keep pointing out, rail isn't the only solution. It has to be the right / best solution for the problem. Building railway lines is *very* expensive - and unless the costs of such schemes are covered by farebox revenue, you end up with a growing system which costs far more than the benefits it offers and that isn't sustainable.

That's where Britain's rail building mania of the 1800s was flawed - it meant all sorts of things got built but they weren't the right solution so got pruned from the early 1900s onwards.

 

[edwin_m]

Because as some of us keep pointing out, rail isn't the only solution.

Indeed it isn't. But if they were integrated as part of a national transport network, buses would be a far better solution than they are now.

 

[backontrack]

Why does someone on a rail forum oppose making rail use easier?

I sometimes get the impression that a lot of people on this forum don't really like railways at all, to be honest.
And then they act all superior about it.

Hi, I'm a 14 year old railway campaigner, working on a few projects in the last few months.

I've been exploring the idea of a Northamptonshire/East Midlands Hub Two station in Brackley, more exactly, Turweston (a village that would be totally knocked out by High Speed Two) to serve Buckinghamshire, West/North Northamptonshire, Warwickshire, Oxfordshire etc without having to travel all the way to London or Birmingham to catch a train.

I know congestion would be an issue, however a passing loop or two extra tracks would fix this. Has anyone got any thoughts on this?

I feel as though there's value in the fact that you're actively looking at this and examining it as an option, even if you're meeting a lot of disagreement.

There are plenty of times I've looked at a map of the HS2 route and the stationless hinterland of Brackley-Buckingham-Towcester-Daventry-Southam - towns between the M1 and M40, and likely to contribute a fair deal of cars to the two motorways - and wondered if anyone in government had ever thought of dotting one of the thick lines with a station. As far as I know there's a deal of resentment from Brackley people about the fact that they'll be narrowly bypassed by a line yet not have a station there (that's if HS2 does ever come to pass). It is a fact that we are going to have to reorient public transport away from metalled roads this century - because there's a climate emergency going on, and it will get worse, and we have to limit our emissions.

The thing is that HS2 also has to stay fast, and as I see it a Brackley station doesn't really help, because all the services on HS2 are designed to be, well, high-speed, which is the selling point. But what HS2 does allow, as others have said, is for services on the existing north-south corridors to call at more stations, because they don't need to be so fast. It's possible that simply calling more Avanti services at Milton Keynes Central might have a bigger impact for people living in, say, Buckingham, than a Brackley station. Just because we're building new lines doesn't mean that we're using our existing resources to their fullest potential.

But if Brackley really needs a station, then how's about building one at Ardley, near Cherwell Valley services, on the Chiltern Line north of Bicester? It's just a bus ride down the A43 to Brackley. Not as good a site as Turweston - which is far closer to Buckingham and just on the edge of Brackley itself - but perhaps more practical. Of course, Banbury isn't too far from Brackley anyway, but Ardley's still nearer, and is in the right direction for London.