LNW-GW Joint
Veteran Member
They are coming from Padacar (specialist Spanish concrete manufacturer) on the the Isle of Grain.
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HS2 TBM Progress
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Ah ok. Thanks!, I thought the large site near the M25 producing the chiltern tunnel segments would be logical seeing as its nearby and operational but then again its not near a railway line/or connecting to the Chiltern line would be a challenge!
LNW-GW Joint
Veteran Member
There are different contractors for the two tunnels, and they have different supply strategies.
Another reason is that the London tunnels are slightly smaller than the ones further north (the trains will run a bit slower), so there is a difference in segment specification.
There are at least two other segment manufacturers, one is in Hartlepool (supplying some of the London segments) and another in Avonmouth, the latter supplying the tunnels near Birmingham (which are also without rail access).
Edit Mar 23:
The West Ruislip infographic this week shows the arrival of 5 trains carrying segments for the Northolt tunnels, Mon-Fri nights.
From the original 3 trains a week, and then 4, it seems like a sign of increasing progress.
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Fazaar1889
Member
Redirected here.
HS2 released the final designs of the north portal of the Chiltern Tunnels
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Some cool shots of the tunnels in this video
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HS2 released the final designs of the north portal of the Chiltern Tunnels
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Some cool shots of the tunnels in this video
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new drone shot of the tunnel
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HS2 website update: Florence TBM has now passed 60% (9709m) with Cecilia lagging a little behind - underneath the Chilterns.. It doesnt seem that long ago that they passed the halfway mark. Not sure if they are on schedule to meet their target in 2024 but progress varies between 18m to 28m per day for Florence.
No news yet about Dorothy...
No news yet about Dorothy...
LNW-GW Joint
Veteran Member
Dorothy has probably finished its drive apart from the final few metres to the PR-staged breakthrough, which will have all the lights and cameras and VIPs that HS2 can muster as the twin-bore tunnel will be "finished".
The Chiltern TBMs seem to be steadily eating up the distance, though still a bit behind the 15m/day average since they started.
At least progress reports seem to have settled into a 2-week cycle.
There's no pattern of reports yet from the Northolt TBMs.
TML, when building the Channel Tunnel, used to update positions for all of their TBMs (10 at maximum, on both sides of the Channel) on Tuesday each week.
With no internet you had to ring a number to get a voice recording of the positions, much like getting the score at Test Matches...
Nothing so coordinated from HS2 Ltd.
Exactly what I did!
GRALISTAIR
Established Member
Me too!
Did the Channel Tunnel progress have a Ceefax page? I'm not old enough to remember ringing for Test Match scores, but do remember the agonising wait for the ceefax page number to tick around.
no. Just a phone number in Folkestone.
LNW-GW Joint
Veteran Member
No, the only railway information on Ceefax was the "Train Service Alterations" page in the Travel section, often in highly imprecise language.
This was provided by BR and now forms a key part of the National Rail website (still often in highly imprecise language
). With the Channel Tunnel, TBM progress was all that mattered for 4 years or so and was a means of keeping shareholders (many of them in the general public) engaged to stick with the project.
Tunnels are not the entire focus of HS2's work, and the taxpayer is the only shareholder, but they are a bell-weather on the delivery capability of HS2 Ltd.
There are also 3 different contractors involved (although TML had 10, 5 on each side of the Channel).
Tunnelling was from intermediate locations, as close to the sea as possible, with drives doing inland and out to sea from both, so four TBMs for the main tunnels on each side
LNW-GW Joint
Veteran Member
It's a long time ago and I've lost the data I collected, but while there were 11 TBMs deployed, I think only 10 were in use at the maximum.
That was 3 each way under the sea (38km), 3 landwards in the UK (8km) and one landwards at a time on the short 3.2km tunnels in France.
I think the service tunnel TBM in France finished before the running tunnel TBM started up, and it bored both of them, a bit like Dorothy at Long Itchington except it was turned at the portal and bored the other tunnel back to where it started.
But I could be wrong...
There's also the Crossrail precedent of multiple TBMs, but I didn't take a lot of notice of that...
Fazaar1889
Member
HS2 teasing something about Dorothy. Idk Dorothy's progress but perhaps a video of end to end?
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Video of Dorothy breaking through on the HS2 Instagram story. At long Itchington right?Login • Instagram
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Dorothy fully broken through
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LNW-GW Joint
Veteran Member
The progress map hasn't been updated yet, but the eastern bore at Long Itchington is evidently complete.
This took 125 days from the launch on November 25, which is little more than half the time taken to bore the western tunnel (232 days).
It just shows how much optimisation has been achieved by the "Dorothy" team.
Dorothy now gets dismantled for the second time, and is then transported northwards to the eastern portal of Bromford tunnel to bore its third drive, 5.5km towards Curzon St.
I suspect there is still work to construct (without a TBM) a couple of emergency cross-passages between the two 1.5km tunnels, as these are normally at 500m intervals.
This took 125 days from the launch on November 25, which is little more than half the time taken to bore the western tunnel (232 days).
It just shows how much optimisation has been achieved by the "Dorothy" team.
Dorothy now gets dismantled for the second time, and is then transported northwards to the eastern portal of Bromford tunnel to bore its third drive, 5.5km towards Curzon St.
I suspect there is still work to construct (without a TBM) a couple of emergency cross-passages between the two 1.5km tunnels, as these are normally at 500m intervals.
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Fazaar1889
Member
When will this begin?
Do you happen to know how many drives each TBM will be doing and in what order? (Or is there a link I've not found yet?).
Would be interesting to see because the HS2 website sometimes implies a new TBM for each drive which seems somewhat excessive.
Preceding post referred to contractors, not TBMs?
As far as I know, only Dorothy will be doing more than one drive. The others are doing fairly long drives and it's common for them to only be used once. Parts do get reused, but they are not expensive when compared to the budget (£10-20m each), with each mile of tunnel costing at least £100m
I suppose with the distances it would potentially extend the timescales if they had to wait for another TBM to finish, and geology probably comes into it.
IIRC Crossrail reused most of it's TBMs at least once?
LNW-GW Joint
Veteran Member
As far as I know Dorothy is the only TBM doing more than one drive, and I think it will be partially rebuilt for Bromford.
All the other tunnels are long enough to have dedicated TBMs (5.5km or longer).
The first Bromford TBM is due to start up "soon", with Dorothy joining in "by the end of the year*".
The end of the year is also supposed to see the launch of the Northolt East pair of TBMs, with the Euston tunnels last to start early next year.
It's just possible the Chiltern pair will finish their job before the Euston pair start.
All the Phase 1 tunnelling is due to complete by end-2024, except the Euston tunnels which are a year later.
There are two short tunnels on Phase 2a, at Whitmore and Madeley, both of 700m.
With the recent pause situation for 2a, it's possible Dorothy or another Phase 1 TBM will bore them rather than deploying new ones.
Yet another TBM will be launched shortly to bore the logistics tunnel under the OOC site which will feed the Euston TBMs.
That is a smaller diameter tunnel than HS2 rail tunnels, and is 753m long.
It's not clear what that tunnel will be used for long-term.
* I see from today's announcement that Dorothy will start work at Bromford "early in 2024".
HS2 tunnelling team celebrate milestone TBM breakthrough in Warwickshire
2,000 tonne tunnel boring machine ‘Dorothy’ completes second bore of Long Itchington Wood Tunnel in Warwickshire Milestone breakthrough marks full completion of first twin bore tunnel on HS2 The Balfour Beatty VINCI tunnelling team celebrate the momentous event at the tunnel’s south portal...
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Fazaar1889
Member
thanks
Only the Thames tunnel did, the others were all being driven at the same time
nope. There were 8, and two were used twice.
most TBMs are on ‘first refusal’ with Herrenknecht For sale back and refurb of the parts.
As far as I know Dorothy is the only TBM doing more than one drive, and I think it will be partially rebuilt for Bromford.
All the other tunnels are long enough to have dedicated TBMs (5.5km or longer).
The first Bromford TBM is due to start up "soon", with Dorothy joining in "by the end of the year*".
The end of the year is also supposed to see the launch of the Northolt East pair of TBMs, with the Euston tunnels last to start early next year.
It's just possible the Chiltern pair will finish their job before the Euston pair start.
All the Phase 1 tunnelling is due to complete by end-2024, except the Euston tunnels which are a year later.
There are two short tunnels on Phase 2a, at Whitmore and Madeley, both of 700m.
With the recent pause situation for 2a, it's possible Dorothy or another Phase 1 TBM will bore them rather than deploying new ones.
Yet another TBM will be launched shortly to bore the logistics tunnel under the OOC site which will feed the Euston TBMs.
That is a smaller diameter tunnel than HS2 rail tunnels, and is 753m long.
It's not clear what that tunnel will be used for long-term.
* I see from today's announcement that Dorothy will start work at Bromford "early in 2024".
HS2 tunnelling team celebrate milestone TBM breakthrough in Warwickshire
2,000 tonne tunnel boring machine ‘Dorothy’ completes second bore of Long Itchington Wood Tunnel in Warwickshire Milestone breakthrough marks full completion of first twin bore tunnel on HS2 The Balfour Beatty VINCI tunnelling team celebrate the momentous event at the tunnel’s south portal...mediacentre.hs2.org.uk
Much obliged to you all for the info!
after the dismantling of Dorothy TBM..
Once this happens they may be able finish off the 100m mini green tunnel just south of the south portal, which part of the roof has already been constructed. Theres also a fairly sizeable compound at the north portal probably slurry treatment processing centre which may no longer be needed...
Once this happens they may be able finish off the 100m mini green tunnel just south of the south portal, which part of the roof has already been constructed. Theres also a fairly sizeable compound at the north portal probably slurry treatment processing centre which may no longer be needed...
Snow1964
Established Member
No, the French landward TBM, had its backup train split and was physically turned 180degrees in the cutting just beyond the tunnel portAl, it then worked back to Sandgatte shaft.
Not easy process to turn a TBM, think a concrete platform was laid, and it rolled onto air sledges, sort of cross between a hovercraft and giant air hockey game.
Temporary spoil disposal was used for that TBM return drive, not the piped slurry from the shaft to the reservoir by the forts.
To avoid going off topic, all TBMs are effectively a series of modules, otherwise wouldn't be able to deliver them to site, so unbolting the sections, moving them and rejoining is easy (the difficult part is road transport due to their size)
Yes quite correct, poor wording on my part.