Hull trains becoming more like Lumo?

[Krokodil]

Agreed. Unfortunately with the UK public these are the source of endless arguments.

This is why I rate the arrangements 153s have. Bikes below, luggage above

 

[Bletchleyite]

I suppose the other side of that argument would be that the ‘green’ dilemma and urban congestion problem weren’t really issues back then? Nowadays we have a moral necessity to encourage cycle use in the face of stiff competition from the private car, which might suggest that public transport needs to do better?

I don't oppose bikes on trains, but with the vast, vast majority of journeys being "suburb or village to city" provision of properly secure storage at stations must surely be the priority over carriage? Indeed I suspect the lack of this is one of the primary reasons for people not cycling to stations, particularly on pricier steeds like ebikes. I'd certainly not park my ebike at Bletchley or even worse MKC and expect it to still be there when I return.

Leisure cycling is probably less important as that creates journeys, it doesn't replace less environmentally friendly ones.

This is why I rate the arrangements 153s have. Bikes below, luggage above

Yes, I like this.

 

[Tetchytyke]

Making a charge for using extra space is reasonable.

I always got the impression the railways moved away from charging for bicycle reservations because being able to honour them is problematic.

TPE is a great example, supposedly it has mandatory bicycle reservations but the bike rack is in the middle of the train and has tip-up seats on it. In reality people aren't going to give up their seat for a bike, reservation or no reservation.

 

[bahnause]

I always got the impression the railways moved away from charging for bicycle reservations because being able to honour them is problematic.

TPE is a great example, supposedly it has mandatory bicycle reservations but the bike rack is in the middle of the train and has tip-up seats on it. In reality people aren't going to give up their seat for a bike, reservation or no reservation.

A problem of the TOC's own making. Folding seats in areas intended for luggage, bicycles or pushchairs have never been a good idea.

 

[NSEWonderer]

How about a whole wardrobe on the overground? What could go wrong?

Or bring a motorbike onboard to transport it from once place to another, blocking half the carriage during rush hour and potentially hindering emergency escape routes.

 

[PyrahnaRanger]

Of course the real cause of this issue isn't, apart from a small minority, people bringing unrealistic amounts of luggage it's the fact we've procured a generation of long distance trains (some of which serve airports!) which do not have sufficient luggage capacity.

^This. A thousand times this. Particularly the 195s and 331s running to Manchester Airport. The overhead racks are decent, but I wouldn't put a big suitcase up there, although they take my small case easily enough. I understand the need to get as many people on at commuter peaks, but I think the mix has gone too far the wrong way. Also on my grumpy list are Avanti, and having small luggage spaces at the end of the carriage and big ones in the middle, especially so people with giant suitcases can have two goes at splattering everyone as they move through the carriage with their luggage!

I couldn't agree more. If you're going away for a weekend all you need to take with you is your normal day rucksack plus a toothbrush and a pair of socks and pants for each day you're away. What exactly do these people with massive suitcases on wheels put in them?

And spares or both, and T-Shirts/shirts/trousers. Possibly shoes too. Except that doesn't all fit in my laptop bag, so now I need a case too...

Mind you, I'm due to head off to Lisbon for 3 days for work next month, which will require a 5 day trip to get there and back due to the time it takes to get to an airport that has flights, get checked in and gets there in time... And that's before they start organising bloody stupid "dress to impress" events

It’s interesting that a ban on transporting double basses caused such an outcry. It’s not common to see them on UK trains - albeit I did see one a couple of weeks ago on a Southeastern networker. They’re absolutely enormous and take up at least as much space as a grown man.

Yeah, but you can get so many pairs of socks in a double bass case

This is why I rate the arrangements 153s have. Bikes below, luggage above

Yes, although it could be a bit tricky manoeuvring your bike in from the vestibule, it was a good solution. Also good are the 156s that have that little room at the end for bikes and luggage.

Or bring a motorbike onboard to transport it from once place to another, blocking half the carriage during rush hour and potentially hindering emergency escape routes.

View attachment 176184

I love how everyone is being so British and just ignoring it!

 

[Bletchleyite]

^This. A thousand times this. Particularly the 195s and 331s running to Manchester Airport. The overhead racks are decent, but I wouldn't put a big suitcase up there, although they take my small case easily enough. I understand the need to get as many people on at commuter peaks, but I think the mix has gone too far the wrong way. Also on my grumpy list are Avanti, and having small luggage spaces at the end of the carriage and big ones in the middle, especially so people with giant suitcases can have two goes at splattering everyone as they move through the carriage with their luggage!

This is a bit of a trade-off - being in the middle reduces theft.

 

[Peter Mugridge]

Or bring a motorbike onboard to transport it from once place to another, blocking half the carriage during rush hour and potentially hindering emergency escape routes.

How did they even get that through the barriers and onto the train without being stopped?!

 

[styles]

How did they even get that through the barriers and onto the train without being stopped?!

Gate line staff unaware, or too busy with other travellers, or don't want the agro associated with challenging the kind of person who think it's ok to take a moped/scooter (can't tell from the pic) on a rush hour train.

 

[43066]

How did they even get that through the barriers and onto the train without being stopped?!

Gate line staff unaware, or too busy with other travellers, or don't want the agro associated with challenging the kind of person who think it's ok to take a moped/scooter (can't tell from the pic) on a rush hour train.

I saw these a couple of times changing ends when I used to drive commuter trains. I simply pretended I hadn’t seen them - not worth the aggro!

 

[styles]

I saw these a couple of times when I used to drive commuter trains and was changing ends. I simply pretended I hadn’t seen them - not worth the aggro!

Don't blame you in the slightest.

I was once kicked off a Nottingham tram because I had my (push)bike on board though. I didn't know it wasn't allowed. I had noise cancelling earphones in and didn't hear the announcement from the driver, so he got out the cab and came down to me. Felt a bit bad for holding the tram up!

I left the tram, locked the bike up at Nottingham railway station, got the tram to Hucknall I think it was, came back a couple of hours later, and my bike had been nicked. Was only about £50 to buy, and the lock was about the same price. Irritated me somewhat as, while I understand not allowing bikes on busy services, the tram was practically empty, and there was plenty of room away from the doors so wouldn't be blocking anybody. But I guess it's all a balancing act with these rules - it's presumably quite tricky to ban bikes by time of day because the trams get busy not just at work rush hour, but when theatre performances end, or clubs kick people out in the late hours, or university graduation ceremonies finishing in the middle of the day, etc.

 

[NSEWonderer]

How did they even get that through the barriers and onto the train without being stopped?!

Must have got on at the MML stations past Kentish Town towards Luton

 

[Meerkat]

The days of luggage vans are gone aren’t they? Aside from the lack of train length for them station stops are not long enough, the fear of theft would be too high, plus the security threat of unaccompanied luggage.

 

[styles]

The days of luggage vans are gone aren’t they? Aside from the lack of train length for them station stops are not long enough, the fear of theft would be too high, plus the security threat of unaccompanied luggage.

Eurostar have them on some London to Paris/Brussels services. But then that's a bit more akin to air travel in that your luggage is scanned before you board, and you have to show a passport.

In a practical sense though, most people wouldn't notice unattended baggage in a luggage rack in a seated train carriage if you loaded it on the alighted from the train shortly after. If someone wanted to blow up a train, I don't think the lack of dedicated luggage carriage (which wouldn't have many or any people in it) would change that.

 

[RichardAsh1981]

Back with the double bass, I did see one intending traveller with apparently two Cellos:
<a data-flickr-embed="true" href="https://www.flickr.com/photos/30661871@N03/27162019624/in/photolist-Hods8b" title="IMG_4287">
To be fair - she is carrying both of them, so I presume would meet the current rules for two carried items?

 

[Miles Bown]

I managed to take a cello on a two CrossCountry trains today - that luggage area in coach D is bigger than it looks! Wouldn't go out of my way to recommend it however.

 

[Derbyshire Gra]

Reminds me of this amazing sight in Ankara of a couple waiting to board their overnight train.

 

[Gerald Fiennes]

Re: full sized bikes, Santander/Lime etc. bikes and motorscooters on commuter trains. It's becoming moderately common to see these even on the London tube. Gateline staff seem typically just let them through, as do National Rail, presumably as noted to avoid aggro. Even in peak hours. Given the general level of low-level tension that exists on most rail/tube services in London, I'd probably do the same.... (NB. the practice of 'bumping' gates, at least in London, is becoming ubiquitous.) It's fine to imagine that trains should be made larger but, for the most part, we are stuck with the stock that we have at least until refurb or rebuild time. Even the Dutch railways, which generally have large bike storage spaces require you to have a bike ticket (but enforcement of this is still patchy.)

Some enforcement work, though, is needed right now in the London area in particular with very large bikes and petrol/electric scooters. The fire the other day at Rayners Lane on LUL, involving an e-bike of some kind, is a reminder of this. A couple of 'enforcement days' in the London area would help. Preceded by something in in place of the endless 'see it. etc.' and 'it would really great if you had the right ticket' announcements...

As things stand, once the train gets busy and where gangways are blocked by bikes, I'm off ... and waiting for the next one.

 

[800001]

Re: full sized bikes, Santander/Lime etc. bikes and motorscooters on commuter trains. It's becoming moderately common to see these even on the London tube. Gateline staff seem typically just let them through, as do National Rail, presumably as noted to avoid aggro. Even in peak hours. Given the general level of low-level tension that exists on most rail/tube services in London, I'd probably do the same.... (NB. the practice of 'bumping' gates, at least in London, is becoming ubiquitous.) It's fine to imagine that trains should be made larger but, for the most part, we are stuck with the stock that we have at least until refurb or rebuild time. Even the Dutch railways, which generally have large bike storage spaces require you to have a bike ticket (but enforcement of this is still patchy.)

Some enforcement work, though, is needed right now in the London area in particular with very large bikes and petrol/electric scooters. The fire the other day at Rayners Lane on LUL, involving an e-bike of some kind, is a reminder of this. A couple of 'enforcement days' in the London area would help. Preceded by something in in place of the endless 'see it. etc.' and 'it would really great if you had the right ticket' announcements...

As things stand, once the train gets busy and where gangways are blocked by bikes, I'm off ... and waiting for the next one.

They should enforce Harrow and Wealdstone station, the amount of modified bikes there boarding the LNWR services into Euston is ridiculous. (Deliveroo, just eat etc)
And the size of some the bikes are extremely large.

 

[Bletchleyite]

They should enforce Harrow and Wealdstone station, the amount of modified bikes there boarding the LNWR services into Euston is ridiculous. (Deliveroo, just eat etc)
And the size of some the bikes are extremely large.

Some of the folders also utterly take the mick (and half the vestibule). The massive tyres are just a stylistic point and add nothing to the function of these pseudo-motorcycles.

 

[NSEWonderer]

Some of the folders also utterly take the mick (and half the vestibule). The massive tyres are just a stylistic point and add nothing to the function of these pseudo-motorcycles.

Without going off topic, if its fully pedal with what they call fat tires then to a degree this is true, but in general especially the ebikes, the fatter tires provide more suspension and the lower pressure allows the less punctures in the bike. The only downside being its a slightly harder bike to get going but most of the time the electric bikes will be using these tires so that aspect of pedaling barely matters.

Nonetheless no unfoldable bike agreed should be traveling during the peak and blocking up vestibule areas especially when there is cycle spaces provided.

 

[enginedin]

There was a gentleman at KX arguing my TM about a Kayak.

He had booked the bike space and his logic was that the Kayak was "about the same as the bike". He didn't travel but that's probably the most bizarre thing I've seen someone try and pass of as "normal" baggage.

as a kayaker this has inspired me to see what I can get away with

(as an aside, it's relatively common for kayakers to take their kayaks on planes, categorising them as "sports equipment" because they do fit within the size / weight limit of sports equipment)

 

[The Sorcerer]

Back with the double bass, I did see one intending traveller with apparently two Cellos:
<a data-flickr-embed="true" href="https://www.flickr.com/photos/30661871@N03/27162019624/in/photolist-Hods8b" title="IMG_4287">
To be fair - she is carrying both of them, so I presume would meet the current rules for two carried items?

No. £5 each.

 

[Ediswan]

as a kayaker this has inspired me to see what I can get away with

Fort William to Corrour has been done in the past, by asking nicely. I don't know whether that is still practical.

The objective being the River Ossian.

 

[enginedin]

The objective being the River Ossian.

ooh, that looks fun... (and the Abhainn Ghuilbinn!)

 

[181]

Fort William to Corrour has been done in the past, by asking nicely. I don't know whether that is still practical.

How long ago was that, and with what sort of kayak?

I once saw someone getting on a train at Birmingham International with a kayak that they had presumably just bought at the canoe exhibition at the NEC that I had also just been to, but a) it was in the days of Mk2 half-brakes on Virgin XC, and b) it was one of those very short whitewater ones that almost look like something that you wear rather than a boat in which you travel.

(I'm reminded of my father's story of taking his (rather larger) kayak from Colwall to Bala in about 1950; for a surprisingly small sum of money a special van was shunted onto the train at Colwall, and from one train to another at Birmingham and Ruabon. Some aspects of train travel have improved since then, but some have gone the other way).

 

[Ediswan]

How long ago was that, and with what sort of kayak?

I once saw someone getting on a train at Birmingham International with a kayak that they had presumably just bought at the canoe exhibition at the NEC that I had also just been to, but a) it was in the days of Mk2 half-brakes on Virgin XC, and b) it was one of those very short whitewater ones that almost look like something that you wear rather than a boat in which you travel.

I have not seen any recent reports, but I have not been looking. As for the kayaks, almost certainly the sort you saw.

 

[Bletchleyite]

If one of those small kayaks is within the usual luggage dimensions (either 90x50x30 or no more than 1m in each dimension depending who you ask*) it would be allowed. The very small whitewater ones may well be?

* NRCoT used to say 90x50x30 and changed to "no more than 1m in each dimension" a while back, but some TOCs e.g. LNER, Hull and Grand Central have retained the former, which I think is to do with the oddly small size** of the floor-level racks in 80x.
** They're quite badly designed and don't take up the full space they are in, and also don't have a lot of vertical space due to the layout either. Thus you can get much bigger bags overhead than in these.

 

[enginedin]

The very small whitewater ones may well be?

good luck finding a kayak which will be less than 1 metre in any direction! Playboats ("freestyle boats", e.g. https://www.manchester-canoes-and-kayaks.co.uk/kayaks/wave-sport-fuse) are the smallest, but typically 1.6-2 metres long. These are not well suited for whitewater for various reasons (both paddling efficiency and safety-wise)

 

[officewalla]

Sometime towards the back end of last year I was at Worcester SH and a Chinese family of 4 was at the bottom of the steps to platform 2. They all had 2 very large suitcases each and a t least one small case each with a couple of backpacks for good measure. The train manager refused them and they were left on the platform. Does happen sometimes.