Hull Trains service seen on diversion at Parkgate, Rotherham

[Masbroughlad]

Driving under the railway at Parkgate, Rotherham, this afternoon.

Always good to coincide with a train going over the bridge. To my surprise, it was a 5 car Hull Trains unit.

What was that doing in this neck of the woods?

 

[johnnychips]

Researching a new open access route from Hull to Manchester that avoids Leeds?

 

[richard1976]

Driving under the railway at Parkgate, Rotherham, this afternoon.

Always good to coincide with a train going over the bridge. To my surprise, it was a 5 car Hull Trains unit.

What was that doing in this neck of the woods?

Due to upgrade work taking place on the East Coast Line all there services are running on the Midland Mainline into St Pancras

Realtime Trains - 1A91 1113 Hull to St Pancras International

Realtime Trains provides live realtime running information for the Great British railway network using open data.

www.realtimetrains.co.uk

 

[43055]

Hull Trains are running down the MML this weekend due to the closure of Kings Cross. Here are the two units are East Midlands Parkway.

 

[Bletchleyite]

I do like that livery. Very similar to some of the more "interesting" SNCF ones.

 

[mwmbwls]

Is this an unprecedented diversion or has this been done before? Is this part of the regular route knowledge required by Hull Trains Drivers. How is that managed?

 

[Jordeh]

Is this an unprecedented diversion or has this been done before? Is this part of the regular route knowledge required by Hull Trains Drivers. How is that managed?

Not sure about the whole route but according to Twitter it's the first time an IET has made it to St Pancras:

https://twitter.com/LouiseC_HTrains/status/1317760395264786432

 

[JonathanH]

Is this an unprecedented diversion or has this been done before? Is this part of the regular route knowledge required by Hull Trains Drivers. How is that managed?

When I rode a similar Hull Trains service on 25 January, someone from West Coast Railways joined the train at Leicester to provide the route knowledge. (West Coast Railways drivers have route knowledge as they run excursion trains using the Midland Main Line.)

They didn't run through services to St Pancras on the next closure date.

 

[High Dyke]

Is this an unprecedented diversion or has this been done before? Is this part of the regular route knowledge required by Hull Trains Drivers. How is that managed?

Diversions have been done a few times in the past during work at King's Cross.

As an aside EMR (or predecessors) have also provided services from Grantham to London St Pancras on previous occasions, to supplement the lack of ECML trains.

 

[JN114]

Hull Trains don’t have route knowledge for this diversion no, they hire in conductor drivers from other operators. When I travelled the diversion back in 2013 it was Freightliner Heavy Haul drivers, swapping over at Leicester

 

[MotCO]

Hull Trains don’t have route knowledge for this diversion no, they hire in conductor drivers from other operators. When I travelled the diversion back in 2013 it was Freightliner Heavy Haul drivers, swapping over at Leicester

Presumably, the Hull drivers are 'learning on the job'. How many runs do they need to do to acquire route knowledge, or do they need to be separately assessed?

 

[richard1976]

Are they operating on diesel all the way, or are they changing to electric at Bedford

 

[_toommm_]

Are they operating on diesel all the way, or are they changing to electric at Bedford

Diesel all the way apparently, as I don’t think they’re cleared to use the OHLE.

 

[robbeech]

Are they operating on diesel all the way, or are they changing to electric at Bedford

AFAIK they're not cleared to run on electric on the MML as yet so it's Diesel all the way.

Edit : Beaten to it.

I seem to recall they have gone via Sheffield in the past (not necessarily called at of course) but could be wrong.

 

[SteveyBee131]

I can remember Hull Trains using the Midland Main Line before, but I'm sure this is certainly the first time with 802s

 

[The Planner]

Presumably, the Hull drivers are 'learning on the job'. How many runs do they need to do to acquire route knowledge, or do they need to be separately assessed?

It is a bit moot unless they do the same diversion within 6 months, Hull trains will just continue to be route conducted.

 

[eastwestdivide]

Just to clarify the original post - in the Parkgate area, but not on the line that goes past the Parkgate tram stop!
And they've definitely been via the Old Road (turn left at Rotherham Masboro, avoiding Sheffield) in the fairly recent past when KX was closed.

Also, the HT diversions appear to be all running via Thrybergh, not Swinton. Would that be for clearance reasons? Some bit of tight infrastructure getting in the way of the long coaches between Mexborough-Swinton?

 

[DannyMich2018]

Yesterday Sat 17th October seen a HT 802 passing Kettering going south. Was about 11.08. A few mins early according to RTT also according to RTT no passenger stops south of Doncaster.

 

[SteveyBee131]

Just to clarify the original post - in the Parkgate area, but not on the line that goes past the Parkgate tram stop!
And they've definitely been via the Old Road (turn left at Rotherham Masboro, avoiding Sheffield) in the fairly recent past when KX was closed.

Also, the HT diversions appear to be all running via Thrybergh, not Swinton. Would that be for clearance reasons? Some bit of tight infrastructure getting in the way of the long coaches between Mexborough-Swinton?

I'm no expert but could it be to do with line capacity? As I recall the line via Swinton can be quite busy at certain times, as pretty much everything between Sheffield and Doncaster goes that way, certainly in the daytime. So it might perhaps be better to send anything extra via Thrybergh/Kilnhurst.

 

[eastwestdivide]

I'm no expert but could it be to do with line capacity? As I recall the line via Swinton can be quite busy at certain times, as pretty much everything between Sheffield and Doncaster goes that way, certainly in the daytime. So it might perhaps be better to send anything extra via Thrybergh/Kilnhurst.

Possibly, but it wasn't that busy - I couldn't see any potential conflicts while watching the live maps at the time.

 

[John Webb]

I can remember Hull Trains using the Midland Main Line before, but I'm sure this is certainly the first time with 802s

It was the August Bank Holiday in 2019 - they were using 180 units on that occasion.

 

[Crossover]

Diversions have been done a few times in the past during work at King's Cross.

As an aside EMR (or predecessors) have also provided services from Grantham to London St Pancras on previous occasions, to supplement the lack of ECML trains.

Hull Trains have also worked in to St Pancras (under the rule of 180's) via the ECML, multiple reversals to access the GOBLIN and then diverging off at Junction Road Junction to West Hampstead Thameslink and then a further reversal to continue the short distance to St Pancras. Fun diversion, that, although I don't think fellow passengers maybe saw the appeal as they started packing their stuff into bags at Ally Pally thinking we were making good time, but with a good hour still left to go!

 

[High Dyke]

Hull Trains have also worked in to St Pancras (under the rule of 180's) via the ECML, multiple reversals to access the GOBLIN and then diverging off at Junction Road Junction to West Hampstead Thameslink and then a further reversal to continue the short distance to St Pancras. Fun diversion, that, although I don't think fellow passengers maybe saw the appeal as they started packing their stuff into bags at Ally Pally thinking we were making good time, but with a good hour still left to go!

I never got round to doing those diversions.

 

[jopsuk]

Hull Trains have also worked in to St Pancras (under the rule of 180's) via the ECML, multiple reversals to access the GOBLIN and then diverging off at Junction Road Junction to West Hampstead Thameslink and then a further reversal to continue the short distance to St Pancras. Fun diversion, that, although I don't think fellow passengers maybe saw the appeal as they started packing their stuff into bags at Ally Pally thinking we were making good time, but with a good hour still left to go!

That wasn't available over the weekend, the only trains south of Potters Bar and Gordon Hill were engineering ones.

 

[py_megapixel]

Diesel all the way apparently, as I don’t think they’re cleared to use the OHLE.

AFAIK they're not cleared to run on electric on the MML as yet so it's Diesel all the way..

Does anyone know if 802s are planned to be cleared for the MML OHLE? Seems like it would make sense to do as it's a logical diversion route for tons of IET operated services now

 

[Crossover]

That wasn't available over the weekend, the only trains south of Potters Bar and Gordon Hill were engineering ones.

I wasn’t suggesting otherwise. In fairness, straight down the MML is significantly less of a faff all round I would have thought (although I guess it requires more route conducting and misses out Retford and Grantham)

 

[DB]

If full length IEP vehicles are cleared for the MML, why the need for shorter ones for EMR?

 

[py_megapixel]

If full length IEP vehicles are cleared for the MML, why the need for shorter ones for EMR?

Hull uses only 5-car standard length IETs - however EMR will need to run their (shorter) IETs in multiple.
It's also possible that some platforms at St Pancras can take them and some can't, and they are carefully booking Hull Trains diversion services into only the ones that can - however, this is pure speculation and could well not be the case.

 

[cactustwirly]

Does anyone know if 802s are planned to be cleared for the MML OHLE? Seems like it would make sense to do as it's a logical diversion route for tons of IET operated services now

No the OHLE isn't suitable until it's upgraded for 125mph running

If full length IEP vehicles are cleared for the MML, why the need for shorter ones for EMR?

A doubled up 800 won't fit in the platforms at St Pancras

 

[jopsuk]

All four St Pancras platforms have a working length of 260m. Whilst in theory 2x5 car 800/801/802/803 could fit, there would be no space to allow for coupling/uncoupling at the platform or for two services to occupy one platform (as is current practice with 4 & 5 car 222s). The Hull trains class 802 is obviously only a single 5 car unit.