Hypothetical: Using ordinary trains when ICEs to/from Brussels are cancelled

[AY1975]

There have been a lot of reports of ICE trains to and from Brussels being cancelled lately. Usually when that happens, or where a Eurostar is late causing passengers with DB tickets missing the ICE on which they are booked, affected passengers are either told to wait 2 hours for the next ICE, or accommodated on the next Thalys to Cologne an hour later where possible, although Thalys sometimes refuses to carry such passengers either because they do not have Thalys tickets or because of lack of spare capacity.

However, I suppose another alternative, if you are travelling to Aachen or Cologne with a DB through ticket from London and do not need to be there by any particular time, might be to take the ordinary Belgian IC train to Welkenraedt (which used to run through to Cologne until the early 2000s but now goes to Eupen), then a Belgian regional train to Aachen, then a German regional train to Cologne.

Does anyone know whether it would be permissible to do this under those circumstances? If so, is it best to:

(a) Simply board the Eupen train at Brussels Midi and explain the situation to the conductor when they come round.

(b) Board the Eupen train and look for the conductor before or immediately after boarding, rather than wait for them to come and find you, or

(c) If you have time, go to the international travel centre at Brussels Midi (where you have to take a ticket with a number on it, and usually wait about 20-30 minutes to be called to the counter) and try to persuade them to endorse your ticket to allow you to do this.

The Eupen trains are mostly at 55 or 56 minutes past each hour from Brussels Midi. If you want to check out timings to Aachen or Cologne using only non-high speed trains, go to www.bahn.de, enter Bruxelles Midi as your starting station and Aachen or Köln (Koeln will do if your machine won't du umlauts) as your destination, click on "Erweiterte Verkehrsmittelauswahl" (advanced selection of means of transport) and uncheck the ICE box.

Using only non-Thalys and non-ICE trains between Brussels and Cologne involves two changes and takes around 3 hours 15 minutes compared to around 1hr50 by Thalys or ICE, but may be worth considering if you're not in a hurry and your ICE is delayed or cancelled.

 

[gordonthemoron]

You can change bahn.de to English (top of first page, 2/3 across, default is Deutsch), click on More means of transport

 

[MarcVD]

Eurostar, Thalys, DB, and SNCB are all part of Railteam so they can't refuse you that service. But get your ticket endorsed by SNCB staff first just to be able to prove that you missed a connection.

 

[STEVIEBOY1]

I had that problem a couple of years ago, we were told to take a Belgian train to Liege where they put on two coaches, (quite large ones), one was non stop to Cologne, the other stopped at Aachen. A girl from Aachen whom I met on the train, knew about the above connections but was unsure about the timings etc, but she did ask the ticket lady who said we could have gone that was in view of the problems. I missed my booked connection from Koln to Berlin Ost by 30 mins, but was allowed to travel on the next available DB ICE train by the kind DB man at Koln HBF.

 

[Gerald Fiennes]

The IC/RE/RE connection via Aachen is perfectly reasonable and the connections now operate hourly (vice two-hourly), which helps. You could seek help from the train manager on the ES train: in principle, he/she can endorse it is covered by the 'hop on the next train' policy under Railteam. But I very much doubt any of the SNCB/NMBS or DB conductors you might meet would argue in reality, as everyone realises it's a bit of an embarassment when the ICE trains are curtailed and cancelled given the cost of building such a beautiful high speed line for them (in Belgium) and upgrading the line (in Germany). You would need to get an endorsement for the THA train, however, as there seems to be little love lost between Thalys and DB once again. The ICE trains are definitely more unreliable than THA, so the latter presumably get a little exasperated by this!
Railteam seems to be waning again as a concept and, as far as I recall, is really a voluntary association of rail companies to provide better service rather than a contractual offer. Thus, in the end, with an ICE ticket you have CIV rights (in essence, we will get there you at some point) plus DB's compensation policy (we will probably give you some of your fare back once you have filled in their compensation form), which is better than the EU Passenger Rights Regulation obligations.

 

[monxton]

If you have a DB ticket to Cologne, then you can use it on local services. See terms on the ticket: https://www.railforums.co.uk/attachments/31170/, discussed in https://www.railforums.co.uk/threads/eurostar-db-ticket.139050/. A Thalys ticket is a different matter, as discussed above.

 

[oldtrvller]

Two years ago I had a ticket for the morning ICE train Cologne to Brussels and wanted to change to use the local trains. I was told by staff at the Travel Centre in Cologne station that I would have to buy a new ticket as the ICE ticket was not valid on the local trains. I believe it is something to do with who sets the prices for the trains - DB for the ICE trains and the local transport authority for the local trains. However this may have changed by now.

 

[30907]

If you have a DB ticket to Cologne, then you can use it on local services. See terms on the ticket: https://www.railforums.co.uk/attachments/31170/, discussed in https://www.railforums.co.uk/threads/eurostar-db-ticket.139050/. A Thalys ticket is a different matter, as discussed above.

That thread was about the Eurostar-issued "plus DB" fares not the more common DB--issued Europe Special.

Two years ago I had a ticket for the morning ICE train Cologne to Brussels and wanted to change to use the local trains. I was told by staff at the Travel Centre in Cologne station that I would have to buy a new ticket as the ICE ticket was not valid on the local trains. I believe it is something to do with who sets the prices for the trains - DB for the ICE trains and the local transport authority for the local trains. However this may have changed by now.

Depends on the ticket. A Special fare on this route is only valid on the cross border ICE and so you can't opt for regional trains.
However if your train is delayed, as per the OP, that's another matter.

 

[317666]

Last year I had a delayed Eurostar which missed the ICE onwards to Cologne - it was announced on the Eurostar that the train manager would be walking through to endorse tickets (he didn't, quelle surprise...). At Brussel-Zuid I tried to go to the international booking office but the queue was so long that I would have missed the next train to Welkenraedt for the connection over the border, and I was catching the Nightjet to Innsbruck that night, so I chanced it. In the end I didn't get checked on any of the three trains between Brussels and Cologne!

 

[monxton]

That thread was about the Eurostar plus DB fares, and it doesn't mention Regional trains in Germany.

It was quite a long thread so perhaps you didn't read it all; the reason I referred to it was that it did address the question of using a Eurostar+DB ticket to get to Cologne without using ICE. But you are correct, the thread was vague about the different levels of DB services - the Rhein-Sieg-Express from Aachen to Cologne is a regional service, and as such is not necessarily covered by the DB ticket conditions. Nevertheless, I can definitely confirm that the conductor scanned the DB QR code on the ticket and was fine with it.

 

[Gerald Fiennes]

Any ticket with 'ICE' on it will be treated as meaning a German 'A' tariff, meaning that it is valid on all trains between Cologen and Aachen whereas 'C' tariff tickets are only valid on Regional/Local trains. 'B' tariff fares are also valid on IC/EC trains, but not ICEs. In general, where tarifverbunds exist (which is most of the country), fares for intra tarifverbund journeys are set by the 'PTE' and are valid only on local regional/local trains (and are often much cheaper per km than the 'DB Tariff'). For journeys between tarifverbund areas on regional/local trains, the normal DB range of fares applies and these will be 'C' tariff tickets. Simples.
So I suspect there was a misunderstanding at Cologne Travel Centre.

 

[30907]

It was quite a long thread so perhaps you didn't read it all; the reason I referred to it was that it did address the question of using a Eurostar+DB ticket to get to Cologne without using ICE. But you are correct, the thread was vague about the different levels of DB services - the Rhein-Sieg-Express from Aachen to Cologne is a regional service, and as such is not necessarily covered by the DB ticket conditions. Nevertheless, I can definitely confirm that the conductor scanned the DB QR code on the ticket and was fine with it.

And seeing as I posted on said thread more than once, I ought to have re read it. Original post amended for accuracy and to make my point clear.

 

[Bletchleyite]

Any ticket with 'ICE' on it will be treated as meaning a German 'A' tariff, meaning that it is valid on all trains between Cologen and Aachen whereas 'C' tariff tickets are only valid on Regional/Local trains

Within Germany, yes - but wouldn't there be an issue with the Belgian local trains? I thought the ICEs were operated commercially (=DB gets all the money) rather than in the traditional manner of it being a Belgian train on one side of the border and a German train on t'other?

What tickets can be used to use it wholly within Belgium? (Or aren't there two stops there?)

 

[eastwestdivide]

...What tickets can be used to use it wholly within Belgium? (Or aren't there two stops there?)

If you use the Belgian internal timetable planner (via belgianrail.be) for Brussels-Liège, it doesn't offer the ICE trains even though they make those stops.
But if you look at the T&Cs (from https://www.belgiantrain.be/en/tickets-and-railcards/standard-ticket) for standard tickets, it says "Si vous utilisez votre Billet Standard dans le train à grande vitesse « ICE » sur le trajet entre Bruxelles-Midi et Liège Guillemins ou vice versa, acquittez-vous d’un supplément séparé"
or (my translation/paraphrase)
"buy a separate supplement to use ICE between those stations if you're using a Standard ticket".

 

[30907]

Within Germany, yes - but wouldn't there be an issue with the Belgian local trains? I thought the ICEs were operated commercially (=DB gets all the money) rather than in the traditional manner of it being a Belgian train on one side of the border and a German train on t'other?

What tickets can be used to use it wholly within Belgium? (Or aren't there two stops there?)

Within Belgium it used - unlike Thalys - to be usable with normal tickets, but I notice it does not show up on the b-rail website for a Brussels-Liege journey, nor is it usable with an Any Belgian Station Eurostar ticket. So maybe the answer is only with Interrail etc?
(Sorry, EastWestDivide has dug deeper while I was looking).
A full-fare international ticket would undoubtedly be valid within Belgium on SNCB services, but officially a Belgium Special isn't valid on them on the Aachen-Liege bit and a London Special isn't valid at all on internal trains (I would be surprised if any staff enforced either though).

 

[Capybara]

I've used both routes on quite a few occasions in recent years. I've had ICEs terminated at Aachen in both directions, the incoming ICE terminated at Brussels Nord at short notice meaning a mad dash from Midi to Nord to catch the connection, as well as problems with the 'standard' route - missed connections and late cancellations. Cancellation at Aachen wasn't a problem - we were simply told to catch the next train to Cologne - but it was frustrating to see the ICE we'd been on whizz through past us at Horrem. Result: missed connection in Cologne. In the other direction, the advice was to get on one of the replacement coaches that were, eventually, provided to get them to Welkenraedt. Some passengers figured, correctly, that they would get to Brussels quicker if they took the SNCB service to Welkenraedt, but the Belgian ticket inspector insisted their tickets were't valid and charged them. No problem for me as I was on Interrail, which I usually am. Then on my last trip I suffered two consecutive cancellations of the SNCB service from Aachen, with literally only two minutes' notice. DB staff were entirely unhelpful when I asked if the next service would run - there appears to be no communication whatsoever with SNCB - surely only a quick 'phone call would have provided an answer for me and the many others affected. Eventually a 'bus transfer to Welkenraedt was provided but further delays resulted in a missed Eurostar. The rule I always use in both directions is to allow plenty of time in case of problems and on one occasion everything went perfectly meaning I had four hours in Brussels to kill! One other thing: the approved connection on the standard route in the direction of Aachen is at Verviers - it's cross-platform so makes sense. But the Aachen train will leave if the incoming train from Brussels is more than five minutes late.