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i cannae believe how silly the FCC carnet tickets are!

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benk1342

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That's outrageous and effectively makes the new tickets worthless to me as I am regularly using them to go in around midday and back in the evening peak. I travelled home today on the 1632 Cambridge train, so that means with the new ticket I've just bought but not yet used, it would be rejected?

Hatfield is not a station that has the evening peak restriction, but if they've now introduced that for carnet tickets then it's a total disgrace and also incredibly misleading.

I think it is almost certainly an oversight and will continue not to be enforced in the evening just as it hasn't been up till now with off-peak single carnets.

What's also odd is the ticket seller had the option to select how many tickets to issue - from 1 to 10 (which was now £100 and so I stated was wrong). That would imply you could buy just 1 pair and get the 10% discount.

Interesting, because that's what happened to me a few months ago when the clerk tried to sell me a set of CQP returns. I balked at the price and he showed me his screen and I pointed out the COP singles. I'd like to see what the TVMs are selling. Is it possible that there has not officially been a change to the return sets (hence the inconsistent literature and absurd restriction code) and that you were mistakenly sold a set of tickets not meant for public consumption by a clerk unfamiliar with the procedure?
 
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jon0844

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He said to me that a colleague had received an email earlier (not sure earlier that day or in the week) and that he couldn't issue the other tickets. And he did have problems, and he wasn't one of the people that often works at Hatfield that can't issue anything more than a ODTC.

He was very professional, keen and methodical with his working to figure it out - but was on his own so couldn't ask. I can certainly go back and ask next time.

Of course, I'd expect (and hope) that FCC will consider telling the general public about things it has changed and informing staff of already, as I think it's only fair that the customer is kept in the loop - especially if there are different restrictions!! It's fine to hope that it's an oversight and won't be enforced, but I really don't think you want to be in that position with an over zealous RPI threatening prosecution.

On the train I went into London on today, an RPI was using Byelaw 18 on a kid in a suit, who refused to give an address (saying he lived on the streets!) and this resulted in BTP being called. I didn't wait to see what happened at King's Cross, but given there was a PA announcement a KGX for BTP to attend an incident at the LU ticket hall (didn't say which one interestingly!), I doubt they'd have been in much of a rush to help. The kid was arguing he'd been given permission to travel at Finsbury Park without a ticket, which sounded somewhat unlikely (it is far more likely the gates were open London bound, as it was around 1pm).

I must also add that I'm hardly travelling a lot these days (just 10 journeys in to London since January) and I've had my ticket checked on 8 of them - without any problems if it was the evening peak. So, FCC is definitely on a mission at the moment and they're obviously quite keen on the prosecution route instead of PFs.
 

benk1342

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It's fine to hope that it's an oversight and won't be enforced, but I really don't think you want to be in that position with an over zealous RPI threatening prosecution.

I agree completely. It may be worth an email to customer service to get something in writing reconciling the inconsistencies. In the meantime a printout of the terms on the website might be wise.
 

jon0844

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Actually, they can only charge an excess in these cases - but I'd still be wary as they seem to take no prisoners these days.

Mind you, the RPI I spoke to today who explained the carnet fraud (not the one I've mentioned above) is one of the good guys - and I must still say that the majority are friendly, polite and courteous to people, and an asset to the company.

Does anyone know when the next FCC meet the directors forum is?
 

north

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Interesting, because that's what happened to me a few months ago when the clerk tried to sell me a set of CQP returns. I balked at the price and he showed me his screen and I pointed out the COP singles. I'd like to see what the TVMs are selling. Is it possible that there has not officially been a change to the return sets (hence the inconsistent literature and absurd restriction code) and that you were mistakenly sold a set of tickets not meant for public consumption by a clerk unfamiliar with the procedure?

On a mobile device but I'm pretty sure the CQP tickets don't appear in NFM 11 and we don't start NFM 12 for another few days. Are FCC allowed to change fare types outside of a manual release like this?
 

benk1342

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I'm pretty sure the CQP tickets don't appear in NFM 11 ....

They definitely do; I still have NFM11 on my computer (I'm probably not going to buy 12 as long as brfares.com remains available) and they are in there. I also saw them listed on the ticket clerk's terminal at King's Cross in February.
 

north

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They definitely do; I still have NFM11 on my computer (I'm probably not going to buy 12 as long as brfares.com remains available) and they are in there. I also saw them listed on the ticket clerk's terminal at King's Cross in February.

Yep just checked now I have access to my laptop. You're quite right - my bad.

So by the sounds of things the clerks have just been told not to issue COPs now.
 

benk1342

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By the way, the FCC website has now been updated to reflect the new return carnets. As expected, it still says that off-peak carnets are valid in the evening peak except "where Evening Peak restrictions apply".

This remains inconsistent with the restriction code (CP) which states that the tickets are not valid in the evening peak "regardless of where you join or leave the service", and which applies even to tickets that are not normally subject to evening peak restrictions. See, e.g., WGC - London Terminals.

Also, this thread in the NR General Discussion area has pointed to a BBC article about the change.
 

jon0844

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Now they've made the change, it would hopefully now be possible to excess the off-peak tickets again. If so, there's no problem (in my opinion).

Sure, it would be a bit of a PITA to do every day you travel* but people buying a carnet pack don't travel every day do they, especially not for work? Why wouldn't you get a season for far bigger savings? The fraud issue was about the second use of the same ticket in the wrong direction. Now they're marked OUT / RTN, that has been fixed.

* Actually, you might be able to do it at the time of buying your tickets. The excess ticket is marked as associated with a specific ticket number. The BBC guy could ask for five peak upgrades for the outbound tickets, and as long as the ticket is dated correctly then it would be okay. The only possible fraud is using the ticket for the same outbound journey on that day again, not as the return.
 
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benk1342

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If you go into London 1, 2 or 3 days a week, and need to travel in the morning peak, the anytime return carnets are still a better value (by 10%) than buying an anytime day return each day.
 

jon0844

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Yes, I'd agree with that. For flexible working, they're okay (simply okay, not good - as I'd much prefer a proper flexible season ticket but we can't get that until such time we get smartcards) but I am not sure how many people do this.

I'd love to have a smartcard system that applied discounts on a sliding scale, or even applied an overall cap in any calendar year.
 
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