Ia there room for Tonbridge to Redhill services to extend to Gatwick Airport?

[infobleep]

Is there room on the Brighton mainline for Tonbridge services to run to Gatwick Airport, especially as there are now 2 trains an hour from Reading to Gatwick Airport and there are separate trains to Eastbourne and Lewis.

Visit Kent is calling for it.

Visit Kent said the service's return would be "really good news for inbound tourism".

A Network Rail spokesperson said that while no new service is planned "in the short-to-medium term", it would "continue to liaise with partners about the options to improve connectivity between Gatwick and Kent".

BBC News - Gatwick Airport: Calls for direct rail service to Kent to be reinstated - BBC News

Gatwick Airport: Calls for direct rail service to Kent to be reinstated

Network Rail says there is no immediate plan to reinstate direct trains from Tonbridge to Gatwick.

www.bbc.co.uk

 

[PGAT]

Is there room on the Brighton mainline for Tonbridge services to run to Gatwick Airport, especially as there are now 2 trains an hour from Reading to Gatwick Airport and there are separate trains to Eastbourne and Lewis.

Visit Kent is calling for it.

BBC News - Gatwick Airport: Calls for direct rail service to Kent to be reinstated - BBC News

Gatwick Airport: Calls for direct rail service to Kent to be reinstated

Network Rail says there is no immediate plan to reinstate direct trains from Tonbridge to Gatwick.

www.bbc.co.uk

The latter point about trains to Eastbourne and Littlehampton is a moot point. That was a trade off for the Victoria to Brighton Southern service so there isn’t any more or less trains on that section and they use the fast lines anyway while the Tonbridge service would be restricted to the slow lines.

GWR only have 2tph turning around at 4 min turnaround times so there is plenty of wiggle room to turn more trains around, especially considering the Thameslink trains now terminate at Three Bridges instead of Gatwick.

 

[infobleep]

The latter point about trains to Eastbourne and Lewes is a moot point. That was a trade off for the Victoria to Brighton Southern service so there isn’t any more or less trains on that section and they use the fast lines anyway while the Tonbridge service would be restricted to the slow lines.

GWR only have 2tph turning around at 4 min turnaround times so there is plenty of wiggle room to turn more trains around, especially considering the Thameslink trains now terminate at Three Bridges

Thanks.

Can someone remind me why they caused to call at Gatwick Airport. Has having 7 platforms now made this far more possible.

 

[PGAT]

Thanks.

Can someone remind me why they caused to call at Gatwick Airport. Has having 7 platforms now made this far more possible.

I believe it was part of a Southeastern service from Horsham to Tunbridge Wells but was cut back at both ends when the service was passed to Southern.

 

[JonathanH]

Visit Kent is calling for it.

Visit Kent can make whatever calls it wants. Tonbridge to Redhill is unfortunately a backwater on the railway network which extending trains to Gatwick hasn't ever been shown to change.

The fact that Southern looked to the Tonbridge to Redhill route to free up a peak only unit doesn't suggest that enhancing the service in on the agenda. I doubt Network Rail would want more reversals at Redhill either.

 

[PGAT]

Visit Kent can make whatever calls it wants. Tonbridge to Redhill is unfortunately a backwater on the railway network which extending trains to Gatwick hasn't ever been shown to change.

The fact that Southern looked to the Tonbridge to Redhill route to free up a peak only unit doesn't suggest that enhancing the service in on the agenda. I doubt Network Rail would want more reversals at Redhill either.

A report by Network Rail was published a week or so ago which I reckon is why Visit Kent are calling for it

https://sacuksprodnrdigital0001.blob.core.windows.net/regional-long-term-planning/Southern/Kent-Gatwick%20Rail%20Connectivity%20Strategic%20Advice%202024.pdf

 

[JonathanH]

A report by Network Rail was published a week or so ago which I reckon is why Visit Kent are calling for it

That was published earlier this year. I thought we had a discussion about it on this forum. Maybe I am misremembering.

 

[Mcr Warrior]

I thought we had a discussion about it on this forum. Maybe I am misremembering.

This one from 2022, perhaps...

Through services between Kent (inc. Medway) and Gatwick Airport

Following on from previous discussion: A through service from Strood to Gatwick Airport would be great, the last thing people laden with luggage want is multiple changes and at the moment the only realistic option is to go via London. Unfortunately, previous attempts to run such services...

www.railforums.co.uk

 

[Trainlog]

I would be in full support for this link if it was implemented, from Tonbridge station you can literally see the planes at a fairly low altitude for Gatwick. Apart from the Thameslink service on the NKML towards Luton airport and the change at Abbey wood for the Elizabeth line, Kent doesn't really have much in the way of an rail airport connection.

On trains that arrive in Tonbridge, there is always the announcement of using the Redhill line for Gatwick Airport, though they never call it the Brighton mainline. The service also has the added benefit of trains towards Southampton and Portsmouth from Gatwick airport station, perfect for if I want to use the Southern Daysaver Rover ticket.

 

[etr221]

My own thought is (has long been) that a Gatwick-Redhill (rev)-Tonbridge-Paddock Wood-Maidstone-Strood (rev)-Medway Towns service would be useful, not only for access to Gatwick, but as a trans-Kent link. How practical it might be I've no idea.

 

[infobleep]

I would be in full support for this link if it was implemented, from Tonbridge station you can literally see the planes at a fairly low altitude for Gatwick. Apart from the Thameslink service on the NKML towards Luton airport and the change at Abbey wood for the Elizabeth line, Kent doesn't really have much in the way of an rail airport connection.

On trains that arrive in Tonbridge, there is always the announcement of using the Redhill line for Gatwick Airport, though they never call it the Brighton mainline. The service also has the added benefit of trains towards Southampton and Portsmouth from Gatwick airport station, perfect for if I want to use the Southern Daysaver Rover ticket.

To be fair the line between Tombridge and Redhill isn't the Brithton mainline.

Perhaps they could say take the train to Redhill and change there for services to Gatwick Airport and beyond.

The fact that Southern looked to the Tonbridge to Redhill route to free up a peak only unit doesn't suggest that enhancing the service in on the agenda. I doubt Network Rail would want more reversals at Redhill either.

If additional units are required, it won't happen as that would cost and they don't exactly have spare staff, unless staffing is more just an issue with the Thameslink branded services.

A report by Network Rail was published a week or so ago which I reckon is why Visit Kent are calling for it

https://sacuksprodnrdigital0001.blob.core.windows.net/regional-long-term-planning/Southern/Kent-Gatwick%20Rail%20Connectivity%20Strategic%20Advice%202024.pdf

It was actually published in March 2024, according to the document. I can't imagine such a being issued during the pre-election period.

 

[OneOfThe48]

This just looks more like Network Rail getting their packet of crayons out.

It’s mentioned in the report but if they wanted this to happen, it would require the wallet to come out instead as the financials are the impediment here.

(I know NR wouldn’t pay for it, but someone would have to)

 

[Trainlog]

To be fair the line between Tombridge and Redhill isn't the Brithton mainline.

Perhaps they could say take the train to Redhill and change there for services to Gatwick Airport and beyond.

I probably didn't phrase that bit right. They do say the latter phrase but only the Gatwick airport part, but there is still some people in Kent that don't realise that is a way to get to Brighton, I still overhear people say you need to go up to London and then change there for a Brighton bound train.

 

[Mcr Warrior]

They do say the latter phrase but only the Gatwick airport part, but there is still some people in Kent that don't realise that is a way to get to Brighton, I still overhear people say you need to go up to London and then change there for a Brighton bound train.

If you're travelling from say, Tonbridge to Gatwick Airport and not returning the same day (because you're flying away somewhere), likely you'll be buying a route "✠ANY PERMITTED" Anytime Return or Off Peak Return ticket, priced by South Eastern.

Cheaper route "via EDENBRIDGE" tickets, priced by Southern, seem only to be available as day tickets, so you'd need one each way if not returning the same day.

 

[Sussex Ben]

If this wasn't viable for whatever reason, I wonder whether a coach link from Gatwick to either Tonbridge or Sevenoaks would work instead (if one doesn't already exist) - similar to the one between Woking and Heathrow. It's an easy journey by road, and J7-J5 on the M25 usually flows fairly well. Journey times could be fairly competitive against the train for most of the day too.

 

[Train Maniac]

My own thought is (has long been) that a Gatwick-Redhill (rev)-Tonbridge-Paddock Wood-Maidstone-Strood (rev)-Medway Towns service would be useful, not only for access to Gatwick, but as a trans-Kent link. How practical it might be I've no idea.

Im reasonably certain this is what Connex/Southeastern were doing in the early 2000s with the 507 EMUs.

I agree with the idea of a through link between Kent and Gatwick, it would make the faff of changing 3 or more times (avoiding London at least) so much easier.

Out of curiosity, what was the reasoning behind transferring Ton-Red to Southern?

 

[JonathanH]

If this wasn't viable for whatever reason, I wonder whether a coach link from Gatwick to either Tonbridge or Sevenoaks would work instead (if one doesn't already exist) - similar to the one between Woking and Heathrow.

Coaches between Kent and Gatwick have been tried and failed multiple times.

Out of curiosity, what was the reasoning behind transferring Ton-Red to Southern?

The service operated as London Bridge to Tonbridge before it was cut back to the Redhill to Tonbridge shuttle with peak trains detaching / attaching at Redhill. This was in Southern's area, not Southeastern's.

 

[Minstral25]

The latter point about trains to Eastbourne and Littlehampton is a moot point. That was a trade off for the Victoria to Brighton Southern service so there isn’t any more or less trains on that section and they use the fast lines anyway while the Tonbridge service would be restricted to the slow lines.

GWR only have 2tph turning around at 4 min turnaround times so there is plenty of wiggle room to turn more trains around, especially considering the Thameslink trains now terminate at Three Bridges instead of Gatwick.

As far as I am aware this would require significant changes to Southern & Thameslink London trains going through Redhill, as Capacity to cross the Main Line is limited (Tonbridge to Gatwick would need to cross twice each way).

It will also cause a reduction in Reliability which isn't that good already.

Can't see the idea getting much support in the Redhill and surrounding area.