Idea for Wakefield

[Bigman]

I was wondering if there have ever been any discussions relating to the possibility of a brand new interchange station for Wakefield?

My idea would be for a new low level/high level/triangular station in the middle of the triangle of lines West of Kirkgate and South of Westgate (ie a weird combined Tamworth/Shipley sort of job). There would be high-level platforms on the lines out of Westgate, low-level platforms on the Kirkgate lines and also a single platform on the Westgate/Kirkgate curve. This platform would be used by Leeds-Wakefield-Featherstone-Knottingley services.

I am sure that the Trinity Business Park could be given some sort of incentive to move, and with good access off the A636, I guess that the City Bus could easily call in there. Ample space for car parking as well by the looks of it.

This would restore the connections from Huddersfield for LNER and Cross Country services and would also provide connections from Castleford as well. You would also then have all your London and Sheffield trains going from just one station, which would be useful if there were any service issues on a particular route with easy alternatives available without having to change stations.

Remodelling the low level lines should also be able to result in higher line speeds, as would removing Westgate station and remodelling the tracks.

I would welcome thoughts on this.

 

[Iskra]

This would make a lot of sense really- good idea!

 

[matacaster]

I was wondering if there have ever been any discussions relating to the possibility of a brand new interchange station for Wakefield?

My idea would be for a new low level/high level/triangular station in the middle of the triangle of lines West of Kirkgate and South of Westgate (ie a weird combined Tamworth/Shipley sort of job). There would be high-level platforms on the lines out of Westgate, low-level platforms on the Kirkgate lines and also a single platform on the Westgate/Kirkgate curve. This platform would be used by Leeds-Wakefield-Featherstone-Knottingley services.

I am sure that the Trinity Business Park could be given some sort of incentive to move, and with good access off the A636, I guess that the City Bus could easily call in there. Ample space for car parking as well by the looks of it.

This would restore the connections from Huddersfield for LNER and Cross Country services and would also provide connections from Castleford as well. You would also then have all your London and Sheffield trains going from just one station, which would be useful if there were any service issues on a particular route with easy alternatives available without having to change stations.

Remodelling the low level lines should also be able to result in higher line speeds, as would removing Westgate station and remodelling the tracks.

I would welcome thoughts on this.

Shame they've just spunked a wodge on redeveloping both Westgate and kirkgate!

 

[Iskra]

Shame they've just spunked a wodge on redeveloping both Westgate and kirkgate!

You'd still recover something though, by selling off both stations and with reduced ongoing costs in the long run.

However, while a combined station is clearly better for the railway, I'm not sure it's better for all passengers. Westgate has excellent parking arrangements and is a reasonable walk from the city centre; the new location would probably have neither of those two amenities. Passengers local to Kirkgate would be much worse off too.

 

[JonathanH]

Shame they've just spunked a wodge on redeveloping both Westgate and kirkgate!

...and indeed moving their entrances further apart.

 

[YorksLad12]

I was wondering if there have ever been any discussions relating to the possibility of a brand new interchange station for Wakefield?

My idea would be for a new low level/high level/triangular station in the middle of the triangle of lines West of Kirkgate and South of Westgate (ie a weird combined Tamworth/Shipley sort of job). There would be high-level platforms on the lines out of Westgate, low-level platforms on the Kirkgate lines and also a single platform on the Westgate/Kirkgate curve. This platform would be used by Leeds-Wakefield-Featherstone-Knottingley services.

I am sure that the Trinity Business Park could be given some sort of incentive to move, and with good access off the A636, I guess that the City Bus could easily call in there. Ample space for car parking as well by the looks of it.

This would restore the connections from Huddersfield for LNER and Cross Country services and would also provide connections from Castleford as well. You would also then have all your London and Sheffield trains going from just one station, which would be useful if there were any service issues on a particular route with easy alternatives available without having to change stations.

Remodelling the low level lines should also be able to result in higher line speeds, as would removing Westgate station and remodelling the tracks.

I would welcome thoughts on this.

I'd thought of something similar (if not the same) a while ago, and talked myself out of it. You'd have to widen the viaduct considerably for its whole length to fit in the platforms. The viaduct is curved; the platforms at Westgate are straight. If you wanted to do something about either you'd have to take out a chunk of the Catherdral Shopping Centre and the Cars2 dealerships, while not blocking access to the connecting chord (which you would still need).

Huddersfield passengers can get to Leeds and change faster than they can get to Wakefield, and with more trains per hour to do so.

 

[61653 HTAFC]

This sounds like something that would be great for the railway to save costs in the long-term, but not great for the travelling public.
As things stand, Westgate is pretty much IN the city centre (rather than being "a short walk from it") and Kirkgate is just across what is effectively an ersatz-ring road (not a true ring thanks to the prison of course) from the city centre. The point the two lines cross is some distance away surrounded by light industrial units and used car dealerships.
Any problems with interchanges between the two stations could be solved much easier by extending the operating hours of the Free City Bus, even introducing an anti-clockwise service to complement the existing one.

 

[Halifaxlad]

As someone who is very crayonista I do very much applaud your thinking, but I can't see why you wouldn't simply propose on running services via Kirkgate to allow users to interchange there.

You would probably need another platform on the South side, the existing island reinstated back to its original length. Maybe some track remodeling but surely this would be much more sensible ?

 

[matacaster]

I'd thought of something similar (if not the same) a while ago, and talked myself out of it. You'd have to widen the viaduct considerably for its whole length to fit in the platforms. The viaduct is curved; the platforms at Westgate are straight. If you wanted to do something about either you'd have to take out a chunk of the Catherdral Shopping Centre and the Cars2 dealerships, while not blocking access to the connecting chord (which you would still need).

Huddersfield passengers can get to Leeds and change faster than they can get to Wakefield, and with more trains per hour to do so.

Ah, but from Barnsley to huddersfield, the via Leeds option is more expensive than via kirkgate.

 

[30907]

Ah, but from Barnsley to huddersfield, the via Leeds option is more expensive than via kirkgate.

But Kirkgate is an easy change (when normal train services resume), and the direct service is certainly faster than via Leeds.

 

[matacaster]

But Kirkgate is an easy change (when normal train services resume), and the direct service is certainly faster than via Leeds.

It would be easy change at kirkgate, but sadly there is a long wait there to connect.

 

[fishwomp]

Huddersfield passengers can get to Leeds and change faster than they can get to Wakefield, and with more trains per hour to do so.

It was not always that way. Huddersfield-Wakefield used to be fast - those 20mph(?) plods through Healey Mills were far faster, you could hardly get the numbers of the 37s, 56s, 40s on shed.

In the late-80s, Huds-Leeds became a 20-25 min journey, frequency was boosted. Meanwhile, Huds-Wakefield deteriorated, to > 30 mins instead of around 25. TSRs became PSRs, and it became far slower, in spite of Wakefield being ~12 mins nearer London. I couldn't find an old timetable to show this, but did stumble on this - Wakefield used to be the main connection from Kings Cross. Curiously, sometimes connections were at Normanton in 1981!



The first (?) ECML franchisee actually for a while ran a coach service from Huddersfield to Westgate to do its London connection - nuts.. it didn't last long.

 

[matacaster]

It was not always that way. Huddersfield-Wakefield used to be fast - those 20mph(?) plods through Healey Mills were far faster, you could hardly get the numbers of the 37s, 56s, 40s on shed.

In the late-80s, Huds-Leeds became a 20-25 min journey, frequency was boosted. Meanwhile, Huds-Wakefield deteriorated, to > 30 mins instead of around 25. TSRs became PSRs, and it became far slower, in spite of Wakefield being ~12 mins nearer London. I couldn't find an old timetable to show this, but did stumble on this - Wakefield used to be the main connection from Kings Cross. Curiously, sometimes connections were at Normanton in 1981!

View attachment 106448

The first (?) ECML franchisee actually for a while ran a coach service from Huddersfield to Westgate to do its London connection - nuts.. it didn't last long.

Agreed, but they've actually made quite a lot of track improvements between ravensthorpe and kirkgate, so better timing should easily be possible. It's the connect times that are rubbish at kirkgate.

 

[fishwomp]

Agreed, but they've actually made quite a lot of track improvements between ravensthorpe and kirkgate, so better timing should easily be possible. It's the connect times that are rubbish at kirkgate.

It wasn't always so - when the Huddersfield-Wakefield was the connection, it would turn back into Westgate at Kirkgate, so the wait was literally how long it took the driver to change ends. At Westgate, it would arrive at the northbound platform, in time for the London bound service, and then disappear sharp to the turn back siding north of the station, and nip back to Huddersfield when the ex-London arrived.