Ideas for a Great Surrey Loop service using reopened lines

[MarkyT]

Moderator note: split from https://www.railforums.co.uk/threads/guildford-horsham-shoreham-line-reopening-proposal.184940/

If the Guildford - Horsham section proved feasible with GWR diesel/bi-mode trains, an option might be for them to continue on through Horsham in the same direction to Gatwick and Redhill so together with the North Downs stoppers they could form a 'Great Surrey Loop' service. That could provide some useful new direct links such as Dorking - Redhill - Crawley, Guildford - Horsham -Crawley, as well as the Bramley/Cranleigh area to both Guildford/Reading and Crawley/Gatwick. Brighton line connections would be available at Three Bridges and Gatwick. I'm highly sceptical about the section from Horsham to Shoreham for the reasons TrainBoy98 gives.

 

[TrainBoy98]

If the Guildford - Horsham section proved feasible with GWR diesel/bi-mode trains, an option might be for them to continue on through Horsham in the same direction to Gatwick and Redhill so together with the North Downs stoppers they could form a 'Great Surrey Loop' service. That could provide some useful new direct links such as Dorking - Redhill - Crawley, Guildford - Horsham -Crawley, as well as the Bramley/Cranleigh area to both Guildford/Reading and Crawley/Gatwick. Brighton line connections would be available at Three Bridges and Gatwick. I'm highly sceptical about the section from Horsham to Shoreham for the reasons TrainBoy98 gives.

The guildford-horsham bit I could see happening if there is the case for it. The only issue with the service continuing past Horsham is the pathing. I don't see this as an issue as far as Crawley, but does the BML have the capacity for more services to use the Three Bridges-Redhill stretch?

IIRC, Gatwick and the problem of reversal at Redhill has been an issue for the North Downs services as is anyway.

 

[AlbertBeale]

The guildford-horsham bit I could see happening if there is the case for it. The only issue with the service continuing past Horsham is the pathing. I don't see this as an issue as far as Crawley, but does the BML have the capacity for more services to use the Three Bridges-Redhill stretch?

IIRC, Gatwick and the problem of reversal at Redhill has been an issue for the North Downs services as is anyway.

But with this scheme of a loop (Guildford - North Downs Line - Redhill - Gatwick - Horsham - Guildford and vv) there wouldn't be any extra reversals at Redhill, and no extra services Redhill-Gatwick; and the existing reversal at Gatwick wouldn't happen - but there would be an extra service on the BML between Gatwick and Three Bridges only. If alternate trains on the southern half of the loop ran semi-fast, just as alternate North Downs trains run semi-fast, it might mean that at some times past the hour there would be a faster Guildford-Gatwick link via the Horsham loop than if you waited for the next North Downs service to Gatwick.

Though this leaves the problem of what to do with the then doubled frequency of the service from Guildford to Reading - maybe 4 tph isn't justified there (though no doubt the locals would love it); and would it pose any capacity problems at the Reading end?

 

[The Ham]

Though this leaves the problem of what to do with the then doubled frequency of the service from Guildford to Reading - maybe 4 tph isn't justified there (though no doubt the locals would love it); and would it pose any capacity problems at the Reading end?

If it were a problem you could always run 2tph and split/join at Guildford with half running one way around the loop and the other half running the other way around. That would, however, require longer platforms at a few stations.

On the 4tph option you could run 2/2 (semi)fast/stopping services so as to attract more people. Especially if you had through services from beyond Reading (such as Oxford) on the semi fast/fast services.

 

[Kieran1990]

Re-opening Guildford- Horsham would be a great scheme, family live in Bramley and the roads are solid at certain times. This bus service Guildford- Cranleigh is 3 times an hour but it gets very busy and Arriva rip the paying punters offf on the 53/63.
Assume a new alignment at Cranleigh would be needed as the old station is now Sainsbury’s if I’m right in thinking.

 

[TrainBoy98]

But with this scheme of a loop (Guildford - North Downs Line - Redhill - Gatwick - Horsham - Guildford and vv) there wouldn't be any extra reversals at Redhill, and no extra services Redhill-Gatwick; and the existing reversal at Gatwick wouldn't happen - but there would be an extra service on the BML between Gatwick and Three Bridges only. If alternate trains on the southern half of the loop ran semi-fast, just as alternate North Downs trains run semi-fast, it might mean that at some times past the hour there would be a faster Guildford-Gatwick link via the Horsham loop than if you waited for the next North Downs service to Gatwick.

Though this leaves the problem of what to do with the then doubled frequency of the service from Guildford to Reading - maybe 4 tph isn't justified there (though no doubt the locals would love it); and would it pose any capacity problems at the Reading end?

There wouldn't need to be extra reversals if just extensions of the current service, but chances are serving a longer route/more population, you're going to end up needing more trains per hour. Obviously the other solution is longer trains, but people seem to prefer frequency plus I'm not sure the infrastructure on North Downs can take much longer services.

 

[Aictos]

Does it have to continue onto Shoreham? Surely the main goal should be reconnecting Guildford to Horsham to relieve local roads?

 

[TrainBoy98]

Re-opening Guildford- Horsham would be a great scheme, family live in Bramley and the roads are solid at certain times. This bus service Guildford- Cranleigh is 3 times an hour but it gets very busy and Arriva rip the paying punters offf on the 53/63.
Assume a new alignment at Cranleigh would be needed as the old station is now Sainsbury’s if I’m right in thinking.

Having just done the 63 a few times this week, I agree that not only is there clearly money to be made, but like you say ample passengers. Ideally the draw of a faster rail service would get even more people onboard than the bus does currently.

 

[VT 390]

If it were a problem you could always run 2tph and split/join at Guildford with half running one way around the loop and the other half running the other way around. That would, however, require longer platforms at a few stations.

On the 4tph option you could run 2/2 (semi)fast/stopping services so as to attract more people. Especially if you had through services from beyond Reading (such as Oxford) on the semi fast/fast services.

But would there be capacity on the through platforms at Reading for this, I know you could avoid the fast lines and use platforms 13,14 & 15 but with these used by terminating services and through services I am not sure if the capacity is there during peak times. If there were services through Reading then I think they should be off-peak only as it will cause a lot more congestion during peak times which could impact on the section through Guildford.