Identifying Suspicious Individuals

[jon0844]

I think it got started because photographers were repeatedly getting harassed by the police/Security in the early 2000s with spurious terrorism act claims.

Then it got co opted by the conspiracists and the freemen of the land types.

Photography is so ubiquitous these days that these "auditors " often have to be more and more provocative to get police interference.

That's it. Following incidents that impacted journalists and photographers, many police forces issued clear guidance to officers to allow people to take photos unhindered, but press associations also accepted there might still be a need for the police to clarify why someone is where they are - as well as be asked move if it might impact a police investigation (another thing auditors love to do - get in between the police and who they're talking to, sometimes putting themselves in danger).

I would say that things improved a lot, but now these idiots are not just taking photos as that would likely be ignored. They have to dress and act suspiciously so as to attract attention, and actually put themselves in harms way at times - potentially both themselves and the police in danger.

Sure the police have questions to answer for how they treat people at protests and the like, but the police are less likely to be tolerant when some people are goading them.

But if they can make money then technically these people do have jobs. I don't think YouTube should be allowing profit from such content, and without a profit element I bet 99% of them would suddenly give up on their crusade and do something else.

 

[VauxhallandI]

Most of the time the police etc instigate it by tossing their ego’s about.

If they just left the alone then there wouldn’t be any issues and the thing would die out.

Unfortunately a large percentage of people in uniforms can’t back down and are drunk on imaginary power.

 

[Peter Sarf]

I can remember decades ago myself and a friend (after work in suits) were trainspotting at Kings Cross. Got told to go away as trainspotting was not allowed (no other reason given). We begged to differ. They said they would call the police. I said go ahead. Nothing happened unsurprisingly.

Now if I had a mobile phone back then I would have been tempted to record the interaction but since I was not trying to provoke anything then I doubt i would have been recording in the first place. The fact that these people ("Auditors" or "Sovereign Citizens") are recording from the start means to me they are looking for trouble.

But as regards the OP then yes report it if it makes you wonder and let the police (etc) decide if its worthy of action or observation.

 

[glasgowniteowl]

I wonder if this part of the Railway Byelaws would possible to apply

 

[TJM]

I wonder if this part of the Railway Byelaws would possible to apply

For a phone in itself? Surely not!

 

[glasgowniteowl]

For a phone in itself? Surely not!

If it was being used in a manner to annoy it may be an option, it's not an option on a public street as no such law applies but I think there could be a justification if on the railway, definitely heavy handed if applied though

 

[Signal Head]

They usually do it in places like this, or outside police stations etc where legally they’re allowed to film. The mentality is to try and get Police etc to come and question them, only to be deliberately obstructive. “I’m not telling you why I’m filming, why should I?” (That sort of thing).

I used to love that sort of thing, because it just made me extra professional

As far as police stations go, part of the motivation may come from suggestions (from government?) some years ago that filming them, and police officers, was not permitted. There's nothing in law to prohibit such filming, despite some officers believing there is and acting to prevent innocent recording. There's a well known example from a few years ago of a fairly young PCSO in London getting physical with someone filming the street demanding to know why, or that he stops/needs a permit etc.

I suppose it's not unlike some of the heavy handed tactics, made up 'rules' and so on employed by some railway staff in the past, particularly 'security' types, when dealing with enthusiasts.

 

[Peter Sarf]

Flip side of all this awkwardness and obstructive behaviour. We were on Euston (I think Platform 2-3) when a police officer said we could not stay there. I asked why and he apologetically said cannot tell you. I asked if it applied to the whole station and he said just go to the far side. My friend was a bit miffed but I (clutching at straws) decided it must be something worth seeing (and I knew what I wanted it to be - twas leading up to the glorious twelfth). I made my mate hang around for ages at the end of the high numbered platforms (My character is sit still and be thorough, His is keep moving and changing stations). Eventually Ones Train rolled in, barely identifiable in the dark but a big rare copping event !.

 

[Stigy]

I wonder if this part of the Railway Byelaws would possible to apply

I’d say Byelaw 13 would apply if anything.

As far as police stations go, part of the motivation may come from suggestions (from government?) some years ago that filming them, and police officers, was not permitted. There's nothing in law to prohibit such filming, despite some officers believing there is and acting to prevent innocent recording. There's a well known example from a few years ago of a fairly young PCSO in London getting physical with someone filming the street demanding to know why, or that he stops/needs a permit etc.

I suppose it's not unlike some of the heavy handed tactics, made up 'rules' and so on employed by some railway staff in the past, particularly 'security' types, when dealing with enthusiasts.

I recall that video. Unfortunately, a lot of the time, those with some authority don’t do themselves any favours. It became worse in my opinion, post 7/7 attacks across London, when seemingly overnight, filming/photography on railway stations became apparently illegal (I assume because of the hostile reconnaissance leading up to the attacks)? Of course, that’s never been the case, but people did, and often still do seem to believe it’s illegal to film on railway stations.

 

[riceuten]

To all the people who want a greater amount of surveillance and questioning of individuals - you may or may not recall the situation before phone cameras became so good where anyone brandishing any kind of camera within 100 yards of a train station were questioned by dubious "security" - often untrained individuals working for a contractor on minimum wage with an attitude that anyone photographing a train or any item of railway infrastructure was Osama Bin Laden himself in person.

No amount of engagement would convince them otherwise, and when the police were inevitably called, they would almost always back the "security guard"

 

[CaptainHaddock]

There was a chap with a bobble hat and a full face mask on today visibly filming individuals for considerable periods - including myself - at Waterloo station earlier today on the mezzanine for no obvious reason, even when I replied with a thorough scowl.

Ignoring the specifics of whoever this individual may be, I was more interested in the discussion of a general point as to whether that behaviour is ultimately worth reporting?

When I told the regular information desk staff about it (not BTP), they headed off and seemed to consider it a concern, although I didn't witness the outcome.

So, I really do just wonder what your threshold would be for "if you see something that doesn't look right" (given the classic BTP message), and in practice what it should be?

I don't have one.

If you have a suspicious mind, almost everyone and everything you see at a station could be construed as suspicious. If you have a more laissez-faire attitude , anything that might initially look suspicious will have an innocent explanation. Someone taking photos at a station? Must be a trainspotter or blogger. Bag left unattended? The owner has probably wandered off to the toilet, nipped out for a fag or has gone to the end of the platform to make a phone call.

I'm happy to live and let live as, I suspect, are most rational people.

 

[TJM]

I don't have one.

If you have a suspicious mind, almost everyone and everything you see at a station could be construed as suspicious. If you have a more laissez-faire attitude , anything that might initially look suspicious will have an innocent explanation. Someone taking photos at a station? Must be a trainspotter or blogger. Bag left unattended? The owner has probably wandered off to the toilet, nipped out for a fag or has gone to the end of the platform to make a phone call.

I'm happy to live and let live as, I suspect, are most rational people.

Given the current atmosphere of international relations, and the fact terrorist attacks aren't exactly uncommon in that part of London, I'm not sure those who might report could necessarily be called not "rational people" conversely?

 

[75A]

I'm happy to live and let live as, I suspect, are most rational people.

Indeedy.

 

[Skimpot flyer]

The annoying thing with these people, who often claim to be independent journalists or citizen journalists is that ultimately they're not helping anyone. They are making it so the official press, with ID cards that can be verified, get caught up and mistrusted.

Elon is pushing citizen journalism and I think a recent list showed that most of the top posters claiming to be reporters were responsible for sharing the most lies and faked videos/photos relating to the Israel/Gaza situation.

You can indeed refuse to show the footage you've gathered to the police without a court order but most journalists wouldn't be refusing to say why they're somewhere or being rude and threatening (the sort of threats about taking their job, you work for me etc). Most will work with the police because unless specifically trying to report on police conduct, many incidents will involve the police so you work together with mutual respect (or so it should be).

People watch them because as said above, someone has maybe had a bad experience with a parking warden and now they want revenge against everyone. Many will honestly believe that someone on a low wage getting abused while enforcing parking restrictions is part of some new world order to take away our rights. There's certainly a loose connection to sovereign citizens who want to do whatever they want with no punishment.

And you'll usually see they also believe in the 'pandemic' and other whacky conspiracy theories.

Don't forget to donate to them so they can continue to reveal the truth...

Do they have the power to confiscate a phone in such circumstances? What if you refuse to hand it over?

 

[Gonzoiku]

'auditors'

Quite!

GZ

 

[bramling]

I don't have one.

If you have a suspicious mind, almost everyone and everything you see at a station could be construed as suspicious. If you have a more laissez-faire attitude , anything that might initially look suspicious will have an innocent explanation. Someone taking photos at a station? Must be a trainspotter or blogger. Bag left unattended? The owner has probably wandered off to the toilet, nipped out for a fag or has gone to the end of the platform to make a phone call.

I'm happy to live and let live as, I suspect, are most rational people.

Agree with all this. I’m always suspicious of the motives behind people who are excessively suspicious of what others are doing. There do seem to be a subset of people in this country who have something of a chip on their shoulder when it comes to other people doing activities they enjoy doing, especially activities which are perceived as being less mainstream. I’ve always suspected this is because a lot of people don’t actually do very much.

 

[sprunt]

Most of the time the police etc instigate it by tossing their ego’s about.

If the auditors were just monitoring the police I'd have no issue with it, but the stuff where they go and pester people arriving at their job in the town hall where they're probably just going to spend the day answering people's council tax queries is pathetic.

Ken Livingstone can be a d*ck sometimes but he's spot on in that Westfield video, the police shouldn't be at the beck and call of private companies complaining about something that isn't a criminal matter.

 

[Master29]

You done the right thing by telling someone. If they are up to no good then no harm done by reporting it. Filming people whilst concealing one’s identity sounds odd even if it is a YouTuber. I doubt 99.9% of those filmed would recognise them anyway.

Indeed, given the continual messages of " if you see something etc"......

 

[Peter Sarf]

I don't have one.

If you have a suspicious mind, almost everyone and everything you see at a station could be construed as suspicious. If you have a more laissez-faire attitude , anything that might initially look suspicious will have an innocent explanation. Someone taking photos at a station? Must be a trainspotter or blogger. Bag left unattended? The owner has probably wandered off to the toilet, nipped out for a fag or has gone to the end of the platform to make a phone call.

I'm happy to live and let live as, I suspect, are most rational people.

Live and let live I agree with BUT I reserve the right to treat suspicious things with suspicion. If I think something might be a bomb I am not going to be ignorant - we have had bombs in London.

Agree with all this. I’m always suspicious of the motives behind people who are excessively suspicious of what others are doing. There do seem to be a subset of people in this country who have something of a chip on their shoulder when it comes to other people doing activities they enjoy doing, especially activities which are perceived as being less mainstream. I’ve always suspected this is because a lot of people don’t actually do very much.

Yes there is the busy body risk - which is why you should report something suspicious to the police rather than dealing with it yourself.

And I believe a lot of minor transgressions that a blind eye is turned to is why we get so much ferral behaviour in some areas.

 

[Busaholic]

If the auditors were just monitoring the police I'd have no issue with it, but the stuff where they go and pester people arriving at their job in the town hall where they're probably just going to spend the day answering people's council tax queries is pathetic.

Ken Livingstone can be a d*ck sometimes but he's spot on in that Westfield video, the police shouldn't be at the beck and call of private companies complaining about something that isn't a criminal matter.

As so often, this behaviour appears to have started in the States (where else?!) where, possibly, the word 'auditor' has a different meaning or inference. In response, I think, to one notorious YouTube auditor who used to go into civic buildings demanding access to their offices and the individuals working therein and then berate them 'in the public interest', another channel established itself to counter them with claims they were 'frauditors' and the last time I looked, probably eighteen months ago, he had dozens of videos available. He looked like an old hippy, but had quite right wing, 'police can do no wrong', opinions, so was as bad as the people he was mocking and attacking imo.

 

[N0G83]

As so often, this behaviour appears to have started in the States (where else?!) where, possibly, the word 'auditor' has a different meaning or inference. In response, I think, to one notorious YouTube auditor who used to go into civic buildings demanding access to their offices and the individuals working therein and then berate them 'in the public interest', another channel established itself to counter them with claims they were 'frauditors' and the last time I looked, probably eighteen months ago, he had dozens of videos available. He looked like an old hippy, but had quite right wing, 'police can do no wrong', opinions, so was as bad as the people he was mocking and attacking imo.

There was an incident in America involving a You Tube vlogger recently, where he harassed a Uber eats rider/driver in a shopping mall and got shot in the stomach after being warned. He survived and has vowed to carry on with his channel.