Identity of Mk1 Coaches in the 997xx series

[Roger B]

The current numbers following Mk1 Coaches differs between various sources, and I’d like to know what their correct number are, please. Can anyone help, please?

25756 (18756)

What’s the current number of 25756 - is it 99721 or 99722?
And if it’s 99721, what’s the current number of 25806 (also recorded as being 99721 - see below), or if the current number of 25756 is 99722, what are the current numbers of 25806 and 25808 (also recorded as being 99722 - see below.

The on-line Preserved Rolling Stock Library (PRSL) shows 25756 as now being 99722 (http://www.ukprsl.uk/final-results.asp?action=display&Id=18796)
But SmugMug records 25756 as now being 99721!
(https://shed83a.smugmug.com/CoachingStock/Mk1-Pass-Stock/Mk1-SK/i-cGpPJXC/A)
Caption reads: Mk1 SK 18756 (Carries TOPS Number 99721) on display in Eastleigh Works Open Day 24/05/11. 18756 is part of the Hogwarts Express

Incidentally, SmugMug also records 25756 as now being 99710, the photo shows a carriage carrying what looks like the number 99721! (https://shed83a.smugmug.com/CoachingStock/Mk1-Pass-Stock/Mk1-SK/i-xNDbBxJ/A). Caption reads: Mk1 SK 25756 on display in Carnforth. 26/07/08. 25756 carries TOPS number 99710.

25767 (18767)

This is now 99710 (SmugMug’s photo of 99721 above notwithstanding)!

The on-line Preserved Rolling Stock Library (PRSL) shows 25767 as now being 99710 (http://www.ukprsl.uk/final-results.asp?action=display&Id=18797)
SmugMug also records 25767 as being 99710 (https://shed83a.smugmug.com/CoachingStock/Mk1-Pass-Stock/Mk1-SK/i-nD2DRJP/A). Caption reads: Mk1 SK 18767 (Carries TOPS Number 99710) on display in Eastleigh Works Open Day 24/05/11. 18767 is part of the Hogwarts Express

25806

What’s the current number of 25806 - is it 99721 or 99722?
And if it’s 99721, what’s the current number of 25756 (also recorded as being 99721 - see above), or if it’s 99722, what are the current numbers of 25756 and 25808 (also recorded as being 99722 - see above/below)?

The on-line Preserved Rolling Stock Library (PRSL) shows 25806 as now being 99721 (http://www.ukprsl.uk/final-results.asp?action=display&Id=18803)
But SmugMug records 25806 as now being 99722 (https://shed83a.smugmug.com/CoachingStock/Mk1-Pass-Stock/Mk1-SK/i-S2x3rjM/A). Caption reads: 99722 in Carlisle 08/09/07. Mk1 SK 18806 was converted into a TSO by WCRC and renumbered 99722.

25808

What’s the current number of 25808 - is it 99716 or 99722?
I can find no other suggestions for 99716, but if the current number of 25808 is 99722, what are the current numbers of 25756 and 25806 (also recorded as being 99722 - see above), and what’s the original number of 99716?

Platform5 ’Combine’s list 25808 as now being 99722
But the on-line Preserved Rolling Stock Library (PRSL) shows 25808 as now being 99716 (http://www.ukprsl.uk/final-results.asp?action=display&Id=18805)
And SmugMug also records 18808 as now being 99716 (https://shed83a.smugmug.com/CoachingStock/Mk1-Pass-Stock/Mk1-SK/i-MFjx6Rm/A)
Caption reads: Mk1 SK 18808 (Carries TOPS Number 99716) on display in Eastleigh Works Open Day. 24/05/11. 18808 is part of the Hogwarts Express

Many thanks

 

[ZL exile]

Latest ICRS (2023) combined has :
99710 - not listed
99716 - 25808
99721 - 25806
99722 - 25756
99723 - 25767 cut in half with one half scrapped - extant half in Japan!

 

[amwells]

99723 - 25767 cut in half with one half scrapped - extant half in Japan!

was that the one cut in half at Carnforth?

 

[Stew27005]

Latest ICRS (2023) combined has :
99710 - not listed
99716 - 25808
99721 - 25806
99722 - 25756
99723 - 25767 cut in half with one half scrapped - extant half in Japan!

99723 was alive and well when i passed Southall on Tuesday.

 

[Roger B]

Latest ICRS (2023) combined has :
99710 - not listed
99716 - 25808
99721 - 25806
99722 - 25756
99723 - 25767 cut in half with one half scrapped - extant half in Japan!

Many thanks ZL exile. Very helpful info.

That said, the plot thickens re 25767 / 99723....
The Platform5 2023 'Combine' lists 18767 as awaiting disposal at Southall
Someone's noted on WNXX that "the real 99723 is currently the brake on the Southall-based rake. ... I've got SK 25767 (99710) as the half coach sent to Japan, .." (I don't have access to WNXX so couldn't investigate further)
But the on-line Preserved Rolling Stock Library (PRSL) shows 35459 as now being 99723 (http://www.ukprsl.uk/final-results.asp?action=display&Id=18881)
And SmugMug also records 35459 as now being 99723 (https://shed83a.smugmug.com/CoachingStock/Mk1-Pass-Stock/Mk1-BSK/i-L7MB5zw/A) Caption reads: 35459 (99723 TOPS Number) heads west through Totnes on the: 1Z83 16:52 Exeter St Davids to Par "The Great Britain VI" 20/04/13
And another source (https://coaches-library.weebly.com/mk1---sk.html) records 99723 as being 18806!
From the above, it seems that perhaps 25767 was renumbered twice, with 99723 being used twice - but then again maybe not!

And 25756 / 99722 - I've just noticed that the 2023 Platform5 'Combine' still lists 25756/18756 as being at the Harry Potter Museum (and 99722 as being ex 25806 - as recorded above)!

Any definitive info gratefully received .....

Incidentally, I thought ZL was Swindon Works - I remember visiting in the 70s, and seeing rows and rows of condemned Westerns, and on a later visit in the early 80s it was shunters, bo-bos and peaks. Alas I never visited it in its heyday - a bit before my time! But I thought I'd better check the code - my memory perhaps not being what it was, and saw that the TOPS Depot Codes site (http://www.railwaycodes.org.uk/depots/depots1.shtm) also lists ZL as having been Dewsbury and Cardiff Cathays!

 

[ZL exile]

Correct re ZL being Swindon Works, exiled from there to the frozen north, via a lot of other now mostly closed railway employment locations.

full batch from ICRS:

99723 (1) 18767/25767 (99710) thé cut one, half at Warner Bros. Japan - so has carried 2 x 997xx numbers
99712 18893/25893 Carnforth active
99716 18808/25808 Southall stored
99718 18862/25862 Crewe South Yard stored
99721 18806/25806 Carnforth active
99722 18756/25756 Carnforth stored
99723 (2) 35459 Carnforth active

hope that is them all

 

[DBS92042]

Correct re ZL, exiled from there to the frozen north, via a lot of other now mostly closed railway employment locations.

full batch from ICRS:

99723 (1) 18767/25767 (99710) thé cut one, half at Warner Bros. Japan - so has carried 2 x 997xx numbers
99712 18893/25893 Carnforth active
99716 18808/25808 Southall stored
99718 18862/25862 Crewe South Yard stored
99721 18806/25806 Carnforth active
99722 18756/25756 Carnforth stored
99723 (2) 35459 Carnforth active

hope that is them all

A WCRC Mk1 with the number 99710 was moved from Southall to Carnforth in June 2021. Is this the same 99710 (well half of) that went to Japan?

 

[JonathanH]

I think most of these are coaches from the infamous 'Pilkington' set, once run by Train Tours, of Manchester.

47575, Appleby

47575 'City of Hereford' is photographed at Appleby on the 20th June 1992. This Railtour, operated by Cheshire railtours, featured the Pilkington Glass coaching stock rake. The train worked as 1Z29 Chesterfiled-Carlisle-Chesterfield, working towards Carlisle via the ECML and across via Hexford...

www.flickr.com

 

[Roger B]

Correct re ZL being Swindon Works, exiled from there to the frozen north, via a lot of other now mostly closed railway employment locations.

full batch from ICRS:

99723 (1) 18767/25767 (99710) thé cut one, half at Warner Bros. Japan - so has carried 2 x 997xx numbers
99712 18893/25893 Carnforth active
99716 18808/25808 Southall stored
99718 18862/25862 Crewe South Yard stored
99721 18806/25806 Carnforth active
99722 18756/25756 Carnforth stored
99723 (2) 35459 Carnforth active

hope that is them all

Top job ZL Exile. That's how I thought things are, but wanted to be sure - there's so much duff info flying around, much of it from Platform5, which still lists 18756 (25756) as being at the Harry Potter exhibition at Leavesden!

 

[47444]

Top job ZL Exile. That's how I thought things are, but wanted to be sure - there's so much duff info flying around, much of it from Platform5, which still lists 18756 (25756) as being at the Harry Potter exhibition at Leavesden!

The Vintage carriage trust list shows 25806 as at Leavesden (listed above as in active use at Carnforth) (not sure if this link will work - http://www.cs.rhrp.org.uk/se/CarriageInfo.asp?Ref=3557 )

 

[Roger B]

The Vintage carriage trust list shows 25806 as at Leavesden (listed above as in active use at Carnforth) (not sure if this link will work - http://www.cs.rhrp.org.uk/se/CarriageInfo.asp?Ref=3557 )

Thanks 47444. It's a bit of a mess isn't it. Seems to be no single definitive source of information for these carriages.

 

[Peter Mugridge]

The Vintage carriage trust list shows 25806 as at Leavesden

I can confirm that; I visited the studio tour at Leavesden in November 2018 and my notes for that day have 99721 written down.

 

[Roger B]

I can confirm that; I visited the studio tour at Leavesden in November 2018 and my notes for that day have 99721 written down.

Many thanks Peter, for confirming 99721 was at Leavesden - although it seems latterly it's been based at Carnforth.

I don't suppose you noted what it's previous identity was, did you - perhaps still evident somewhere in a vestibule area? Because that's where things are a little murky - although the consensus above is that it is 25806/18806.

The other possible candidate for 99721 is 25756/18756, for which there's the least consistency between sources of its current number, status and location. But the majority view (Platform5 aside!) is that it's 99722, currently stored at Carnforth.

 

[47444]

Also odd is that the Vintage carriage trust list only locates one coach at Leavesden, yet the photo on the page clearly shows two maroon mark 1s.

 

[Peter Mugridge]

Many thanks Peter, for confirming 99721 was at Leavesden - although it seems latterly it's been based at Carnforth.

I don't suppose you noted what it's previous identity was, did you - perhaps still evident somewhere in a vestibule area? Because that's where things are a little murky - although the consensus above is that it is 25806/18806.

It only carried 99721...

Also odd is that the Vintage carriage trust list only locates one coach at Leavesden, yet the photo on the page clearly shows two maroon mark 1s.

That second one is only a part carriage - which makes me think it might be the other half of the one cut into two...?