IEP - Express Rail Alliance Design unveiled:

[Chafford1]

Siemens/Bombardier's version of the IEP can be seen at:


http://www.expressrailalliance.com/image-uploads/

 

[Phoenix]

Now that's alot better looking than the pendolino.
Plus they have got the whole modular cab idea a presume.
And well it overall looks like a unit worth photting.

 

[me123]

Looks bloody fantastic IMO! Like the large(ish) windows and the whole thing looks sleek. Don't like that colour scheme, though, so I can't wait to see it in a real TOC livery.

 

[Metroland]

Not sure, unless I've missed something, how it's powered? Clearly from OHL, but perhaps diesel as well? Which would go against rumours that the IEP would be all electric - which would make sense from a maintenance/lightness point of view. We really don't need any lard arsed voyagers - a huge mistake in my opinion, especially now as they hardly tilt. The XC network should have had the money spent on OHL and the Mk3s and 87s/90s refurbished and cascaded.

 

[Chafford1]

Some of the pictures suggest a diesel power unit - the green coloured power unit

 

[bluenoxid]

Have the rivals Agility Trains got a website

 

[Chafford1]

This is the only publicity I've seen for the Hitachi bid:

http://www.hitachi-rail.com/rail_now/hot_topics/2008/080701/index.html

The picture in the link is the diesel version; Rail Magazine published a picture of the electric version a few weeks back. The rival designs look remarkably similar.

Hitachi also did a presentation for their hybrid diesel technology earlier this year -there are some pictures of the IEP:


www.jbce.org/files/hitachipresentation.pdf

 

[Mintona]

Tad worrying actually to be honest - I thought this was meant to speed up services? How is calling at Cheddington going to do that? hock:

Seriously though, nice looking unit, the interior looks bright and airy, always a plus!

 

[Waverley125]

Both of the trains look good, going for a Mark 3-esque coach rather than a Pendolino style one. Think the ERA one is the better of the two, but as it'll be replacing Class 91s and joining a line of top-link trains including Deltics and A4s, it needs to be up to scratch.

 

[Pumbaa]

Phwoar - the RailAlliance one looks pretty nice. I'm all for it!

 

[Zamracene749]

Hmm not sure.

Both look really smart but neither seem to particularly push the boundaries in terms of style?

I would rather see something styled with a real 'wow' factor- something a bit special that will gain column inches in the normal press, look special in ads and make the general public look twice and perhaps think 'yeah, we might try that'.....something that represents a real step up in appearance like the streamliners or the HST did in their day?

PS then hopefully once folks get on they will find comfy seats, proper catering/bars/restaurants(if they can manage this short haul in europe i'm sure we can), seats that line up with windows, power points, wifi, pleasant lighting, seat back entertainment and just as a personal wish maybe some compartments in first class at least- I can dream can't I

 

[will1337]

They both look rather pleasant but I agree with beermaddavep in that they look a tad conservative. Hopefully, although I doubt it, the lighting won't be anything like as clinical and bright as the FGW HST "refurbs" or the Desiros and have a warmer, more inviting colour like mk3/4 coaches. It'd be rather nice if there could be displays in the coaches displaying useful information (Next station and eta, delay minutes, internal/external temp, speed, information on any major disruptions.) I-C Swallow livery could work as well.

 

[voyagerdude220]

It'd be rather nice if there could be displays in the coaches displaying useful information (Next station and eta, delay minutes, internal/external temp, speed, information on any major disruptions.)

I once had 221115 (before the XC shift) out of Preston, and the previous TM must have somehow programmed the TMS to display the current speed every minute or two, along with outside temperature, and simply a notice along the lines of "why not visit the shop in coach D for..."

I just don't understand why neither VWC Super Voyagers or Pendolinos do this, with the same applying to XC 220/221's...

 

[Techniquest]

Would be a good idea.

As for the thing in the opening post, I can't say I'm that fond of it. I liked the Siemens Venturio when that was originally proposed, it seems a shame that the train of the future looks like this.

And if those seats are what we're going to put up...ugh! They look rock hard and dreadfully uncomfortable for even a few seconds, let alone potentially London to Inverness...

EDIT: Just going through the Hitachi PDF, check out page 13 of 24...Certainly got me bellowing and imagining how beast that would have been to see and hear...

But what I don't get is why we can't have something that looks as amazing as the 395s. They look like the future, they look sleek, swish and exciting. This other thing in the original post looks boring, like a Pendo with a buggered-up front end...

 

[Hyperen]

The exterior looks alright but it's nothing striking as the HST was and still is. Perhaps it'll look better in a proper TOC livery.

Glad to see the windows are a decent size unlike a certain UK express train. The interior does look nice and airy.

Those seats look like the ones you find on 170s. Hopefully they won't be as hard and uncomfortable. I'd be pleased if they fitted the same seats as the ones in the HST Mallards.

If they are going for electronic seat reservation I hope they don't follow the model of the Voyagers. Time and again I see queues to find seats as people have to wait for the LCD screen to slowly scroll forwards letting them know if the seat is free or where it is reserved between. I've always thought a 'traffic lights' system would work better. The LCD screen would remain giving the same detailed information as they do now but a small light besides it would show:

Green for Unreserved
Amber for Currently Unreserved but will be later in the journey
Red for Reserved

 

[me123]

The Pendolino system (now in use I believe?) is much clearer and easier to read; it's positioned in a better place for one thing. Any time I've been on a Voyager, I've forgotten to check if my seat is reserved and, of course, someone else is booked in that seat from Glasgow/Motherwell

I like that traffic-lights system approach, though. Much easier to see at a glance which seats are available and that would speed boarding considerably, thus reducing dwell times in the station.

I also noticed the similarity with the 170 seats, but unlike you Hyperen, I quite like 170 seats. Perhaps you've not been on the FSR fleet?

 

[Hyperen]

I also noticed the similarity with the 170 seats, but unlike you Hyperen, I quite like 170 seats. Perhaps you've not been on the FSR fleet?

No I haven't made it up that far unfortunately. I've only been on the Central/CrossCountry ones which are quite tatty as well although I have seen some sets have been refurbished but haven't been on them yet.

I'm sure I'll get the chance to when I start traveling on them regularly again. I still hope they run the ex-MML 170s on the Cardiff-Nottingham route as they have very nice ex-First Class sections that you can sit in.

 

[me123]

The Scottish turbostars are quite comfortable, although I don't think I could do Aberdeen-London in them. But they've always been decent going to Aberdeen (from Glasgow).

 

[Broken Viking]

Hail All!
Some nice looking designs being linked here...I must admit that I wasn't even aware of the IEP (Intercity Express Plan) until I came across this thread! hock:

Considering the name that they've give it and how it matches up with premium DB services, I have to ask...

1. Is this system intended to suppliment the existing Intercity arrangements, or replace them?
2. Given that it's referred to as an Intercity Express (Same as the DB ICE services) will use of this system require suppliments on our tickets, as is commonly the case in mainland Europe?
3. When is this system expected to be up and running...And how likely are the DfT to go and mess up the whole thing right from the start?

Finally...And the most important questions for me, personally...

1. What will be the average top speed of one of these trains, and will such speed be maintained throughout most of a journey, and
2. If said average top speed is less than 200mph; Why the heck are they wasting millions of Pounds (Of taxpayers money) developing new designs of train when they could just as easily give us speeds of up to 550mph and save a lot of our money by simply getting the APT-P project back out of the box? :roll:8)

Farewell...And let us hope that this will truly introduce a new era of high-speed rail travel to the UK, and not be just another non-starter from the DfT...
>> Death <<

 

[me123]

AIUI, Death, they will be replacements for HSTs. Basically, they'll replace the NXEC sets with the dual powered sets (allowing Electric operation to Edinburgh then diesel to Aberdeen/Inverness etc). Initially, therefore, they will be 125mph trains. But they wioll be able to go at least to 140mph. Perhaps even 155mph although I cannot remember what the design specs quoted.

Sadly, no where near your 200mph, but a step in the right direction nonetheless. Hopefully they'll equip it for the higher speeds to let us at least push rail travel one notch further up in this country.

In response to at least some of your other questions; I don't think there'll be "top-up fee" to travel on these trains, as they'll supplement then replace the fleet of HSTs and Intercity 225s. And I think they'll start running on the East Coast by 2014.

 

[Chafford1]

Hail All!
Some nice looking designs being linked here...I must admit that I wasn't even aware of the IEP (Intercity Express Plan) until I came across this thread! hock:

Considering the name that they've give it and how it matches up with premium DB services, I have to ask...

1. Is this system intended to suppliment the existing Intercity arrangements, or replace them?
2. Given that it's referred to as an Intercity Express (Same as the DB ICE services) will use of this system require suppliments on our tickets, as is commonly the case in mainland Europe?
3. When is this system expected to be up and running...And how likely are the DfT to go and mess up the whole thing right from the start?

Finally...And the most important questions for me, personally...

1. What will be the average top speed of one of these trains, and will such speed be maintained throughout most of a journey, and
2. If said average top speed is less than 200mph; Why the heck are they wasting millions of Pounds (Of taxpayers money) developing new designs of train when they could just as easily give us speeds of up to 550mph and save a lot of our money by simply getting the APT-P project back out of the box? :roll:8)

Farewell...And let us hope that this will truly introduce a new era of high-speed rail travel to the UK, and not be just another non-starter from the DfT...
>> Death <<

1) The Intercity Express Programme is not related to DB's ICE trains

2) IEP trains are planned to replace HST 125s and 225s. They are also planned to provide additional capacity on the WCML and Kings Cross - Kings Lynn services.

3)Top speed will be 125mph for the diesel version and 125 -155mph for the electric version, depending on whether DfTis prepared to pay the extra cost for a higher speed version.

4) IEP is about increasing capacity rather than increasing speeds.

 

[Mintona]

They won't be able to go too fast on the nation's creaking infrastructure anyway. What we need is designated "LGV"s for these trains to go much faster. Hopefully these trains will be designed for a 186mph future top speed, in case new high speed lines are built, and they can be cascaded to work them, instead of needing a load more new trains.

 

[Chafford1]

Hopefully these trains will be designed for a 186mph future top speed, in case new high speed lines are built, and they can be cascaded to work them, instead of needing a load more new trains.

155mph for the electric version is the best you can hope for, 140mph more likely.

 

[Techniquest]

me123, you'll be lucky to see the IEP/HST2/insert-next-week's-name-here in 2014 I reckon. Considering we are nearly in 2009 now, that leaves us with 5 years to see them over here.

Remember, the HSTs took from 1976 to 1982 to build all 197 power cars and the huge number of trailers to go with them. So on that basis alone (we'd need at the least the same amount of stock if not considerably more), that's a period of 6 years which would see the fleet finished in 2015.

Also of important note is that there will need to be a prototype. Considering that we've not even got the builder agreed upon yet (which I reckon will be revealed eventually next year), that it will then need to be built and have some decent amount of time to test it then get opinions of it from the media (if they don't like it, we're screwed. After all, the media's opinions seem to drive what most of this country does and doesn't do) and passengers (sorry, customers) need to have some sort of say in it. Mind you, it's probably going to boil down to the cheapest option and not what this country needs from it in the end. Which the DafT seem to specialise in.

Anyway, so let's say construction starts in early 2010. To get the first production sets here by 2014, I suppose it would be possible at a push but then they will need extensive testing. How testing paths will be fitted into anywhere out of London (Kings Cross or Paddington) I don't know as it's impossible now let alone in a few years' time.

Basically what I'm trying to say is that I don't personally see the final HSTs being eliminated from service until 2017, a nice long 9 years off from now. And if what we've got to look forward to is the product originally linked to, well in that case I'm not going to even bother going on them. Heck, by the time they do finish I'll be 32 and ready to give up bashing I reckon. Apart from on railtours of course...

I'll be waiting with my cutter's torch for the IEP/whatever-we'll-call-it-tomorrow when they start arriving...
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
Hyperen has a good point too, the production HST was a striking design, certainly one that looked futuristic way back in 1976 (they most certainly did to me when I first saw them back in the early 90s) and still look brilliant here in 2008. I sincerely doubt much of the stock made today will make a visual impression on anyone's opinion in the same time period.

 

[me123]

Don't think 2014 is too far fetched, although I'd imagine that would be first delivery in 2014 as opposed to entry into service. EIS probably 2015-2016 would be a better estimate in today's age. I'd say by 2020 that we'd still be seeing new trains rolling off, though.

 

[Techniquest]

Yes, I got what you meant after I finished replying. My guess is 2016 with the last HST leaving service in early January 2017. I hope it's later than that mind!

 

[rail-britain]

The IEP project is a direct replacement for all current HSTs, with the East Coast Mainline and Greater Western franchises
There are no plans to replace the InterCity 225 trains on the East Coast Mainline franchise, at this time

If all goes to plan, these HSTs will be replaced by IEP units by the end of 2014
The contract is likely to be awarded early in 2009 with units being delivered for testing at the end of 2011 and training during 2012

 

[332 > 444]

IMO both designs look good, not too keen on the one windscreen wiper (dont ask why). Also would these trains be OHLE/Self propelling powered or one or the other?

 

[me123]

There are no plans to replace the InterCity 225 trains on the East Coast Mainline franchise, at this time

I was under the impression that the ICE trains would displace all of the Intercity 225s, giving NXEC a fleet with only one type of train? :? Hopefully the 225s will be kept in the mean time, though. It would have seemed short sighted to remove the 225s which certainly still have life in them. I would hope, however, that there are more ICE trains on the East Coast than there are HSTs. More trains means more capacity/greater frequency of services and I think we all know that the East Coast is becoming a very busy rail line.

I also hope Crosscountry will get quite a few; certainly more than 10 for them IMO.

 

[332 > 444]

Also noticed that the Hitachi concept pictures features sliding doors, look carefully at the door area, it looks like how the 395 doors are.