IET - mini distance with pan up

[The exile]

Just been surprised to see the IET on Worcester - Bristol duty pull into B Parkway on electric power, which it can only have been using for about 3 miles. Is this common and I’ve just not noticed, a new policy or just a driver’s whim?

 

[BlueLeanie]

Closer to 5 miles.

That's a fair bit of diesel saved on every trip.

 

[800001]

Just been surprised to see the IET on Worcester - Bristol duty pull into B Parkway on electric power, which it can only have been using for about 3 miles. Is this common and I’ve just not noticed, a new policy or just a driver’s whim?

Would never or should never be on a drivers ‘whim’.
They will have a set/confirmed place where the sets should change from Diesel to electric and VV.

 

[norbitonflyer]

Also helps to reduce noise and pollution in the city centre.

 

[The exile]

Also helps to reduce noise and pollution in the city centre.

The nearest city with wires is Newport. Diesel fired up again at Parkway, otherwise we’d have never got home, so no electric running in a built-up area. Sure I’ve never noticed diesel engines being fired up again at Parkway before (on the same train). Is “pan up on the move” permitted sonewhere between the start of wiring at Westerleigh and Parkway or would the train have to have been brought to a stand?

Closer to 5 miles.

That's a fair bit of diesel saved on every trip.

With the added risk associated with the changeovers.

 

[BlueLeanie]

The nearest city with wires is Newport. Diesel fired up again at Parkway, otherwise we’d have never got home, so no electric running in a built-up area. Sure I’ve never noticed diesel engines being fired up again at Parkway before (on the same train). Is “pan up on the move” permitted sonewhere between the start of wiring at Westerleigh and Parkway or would the train have to have been brought to a stand?


With the added risk associated with the changeovers.

It's what the Hybrid IETs were designed to do. Switch seemlessly between diesel and knitting on the move. Happens 4x an hour on the Didcot relief line.

 

[Wilts Wanderer]

The nearest city with wires is Newport. Diesel fired up again at Parkway, otherwise we’d have never got home, so no electric running in a built-up area. Sure I’ve never noticed diesel engines being fired up again at Parkway before (on the same train). Is “pan up on the move” permitted sonewhere between the start of wiring at Westerleigh and Parkway or would the train have to have been brought to a stand?


With the added risk associated with the changeovers.

There are certain areas where the catenary is specifically designed for pan-up to occur at linespeed, these are fully signposted to prompt drivers etc. One such stretch is in the Winterbourne area I believe.

In addition, pan-up can occur at any wired location up to a maximum of 20mph.

 

[norbitonflyer]

The nearest city with wires is Newport.

My mistake - I forgot Temple Meads is yet to be wired.

 

[class ep-09]

There are certain areas where the catenary is specifically designed for pan-up to occur at linespeed, these are fully signposted to prompt drivers etc. One such stretch is in the Winterbourne area I believe.

In addition, pan-up can occur at any wired location up to a maximum of 20mph.

The location of Power Changeover is just before line from Gloucester ( known as Charfield Line) joins line from Swindon ( known as Hullavington / Badminton Line ) at Westerleigh Jn.
Locations where driver can pan up are same design in terms of the OHLE as anywhere else, but they have different maintenance regime.
Most drivers don’t bother to change to electrics at this location but some do and there is nothing wrong with that.

 

[GoneSouth]

My mistake - I forgot Temple Meads is yet to be wired.

Which is staggering if this is correct. Why wasn’t this done years ago.

In addition, pan-up can occur at any wired location up to a maximum of 20mph.

So when this particular train joined the South wales mainline from the unwired Gloucester line it must have been travelling at 20mph or less. That must be a conscious decision to slow down as I don’t think everything goes through there at such low speeds.

Anybody got an estimate of how much diesel that would save per trip? Apparently it’s approx 5 miles with a 5 car train.

 

[cce]

Which is staggering if this is correct. Why wasn’t this done years ago.

Because the route via Chippenham and Bath isn't wired, and until IET started doing regional services, almost no electric capable stock went up filton bank.

 

[JamesT]

My mistake - I forgot Temple Meads is yet to be wired.

Which is staggering if this is correct. Why wasn’t this done years ago.

Because it was waiting for some major track upgrades to happen first. There’s no point electrifying Filton Bank when you then have to rip it all out to quadruple.
Unfortunately by the time the upgrades had been completed, the electrification had been curtailed thanks to Network Rail’s abominable cost control.

 

[800001]

Which is staggering if this is correct. Why wasn’t this done years ago.

Because of costs! It got abandoned!
Work had already started on the route, in fact in Bath there was work completed in readiness for electricition, same in the Didcot to Oxford line, work started, but was then abandoned to due to cost.

Also when it did pan up, it could have been doing more than 20mph if it was a designated pan up area, if not then it would have been 20mph.

 

[dk1]

Because it was waiting for some major track upgrades to happen first. There’s no point electrifying Filton Bank when you then have to rip it all out to quadruple.
Unfortunately by the time the upgrades had been completed, the electrification had been curtailed thanks to Network Rail’s abominable cost control.

Same with Oxford. Absolutely no point wiring up knowing it’s all likely to change within a few years. The bimodes can cope in the meantime.

 

[GoneSouth]

Same with Oxford. Absolutely no point wiring up knowing it’s all likely to change within a few years. The bimodes can cope in the meantime.

What’s changing between Didcot and Oxford

 

[JamesT]

What’s changing between Didcot and Oxford

It was resignalled in 2018. Currently there’s the ongoing disaster of replacing the Botley Road bridge and adding another platform to Oxford station.

 

[dk1]

What’s changing between Didcot and Oxford

The Oxford station area and additional platform. Haven’t they been working on a bridge there too?

 

[Doctor Fegg]

The Oxford station area and additional platform. Haven’t they been working on a bridge there too?

Yes, the bridge (Botley Road) is immediately south of the station - as in, just a few metres off the end of the platform - and required for the new platform.

 

[dk1]

Yes, the bridge (Botley Road) is immediately south of the station - as in, just a few metres off the end of the platform - and required for the new platform.

From what I understood these were the reasons electrification to Oxford never proceeded beyond Didcot Parkway.

 

[JamesT]

From what I understood these were the reasons electrification to Oxford never proceeded beyond Didcot Parkway.

My understanding was that the resignalling was the more immediate blocker. Electrification could have proceeded once that had been done as there are comparatively few changes to the existing layout.

 

[jimm]

It's what the Hybrid IETs were designed to do. Switch seemlessly between diesel and knitting on the move. Happens 4x an hour on the Didcot relief line.

Don't know what you mean - power changeovers in the area take place on both the main lines and the relief lines between Moreton Cutting and Cholsey, well away from all the paintwork and complicated bits of overhead at Didcot

Same with Oxford. Absolutely no point wiring up knowing it’s all likely to change within a few years. The bimodes can cope in the meantime.

The Oxford station area and additional platform. Haven’t they been working on a bridge there too?

From what I understood these were the reasons electrification to Oxford never proceeded beyond Didcot Parkway.

My understanding was that the resignalling was the more immediate blocker. Electrification could have proceeded once that had been done as there are comparatively few changes to the existing layout.

It is not all going to change at Oxford within a dew years.

As James T correctly states, the resignalling was a factor in the delay but when that was tackled, the track layout between Hinksey, the station and Oxford North junction was adjusted at the same time and the carriage sidings altered, so it has all been ready and waiting for the wires to go up for several years now.

The four existing tracks through the station will simply be severed, then reconnected, when the new bridge is put in place, which includes a new deck section for the line into platform 5 on the west side.

The other work needed for platform 5 was designed at the same time as the resignalling and involves inserting points into the down loop line north and south of the station, with track laid between them on the west side of the station and signals installed and plugged in - so it will also be ready for wires to go up, should someone in the DfT ever see sense.

And if a new Oxford station building and alterations to the platforms at the east side of the station ever get the go-ahead, the four tracks through the station and the platform 5 line will stay just where they are - and trackwork associated with any extra through platform(s) on the east side would be tackled in the same way as platform 5 - a simple add-on job. Platforms 1 and 2 were deliberately aligned when they were built to allow for their extension south through the site of the current main station building to create through lines and/or extended bay platforms.

I have lost count of the number of times I have been through all this now - can people please stop repeating the claim that there will be changes at Oxford before electrification? The big stuff, bar the new bridge (which was never a requirement for wiring to happen) is all in place.

 

[dk1]

Don't know what you mean - power changeovers in the area take place on both the main lines and the relief lines between Moreton Cutting and Cholsey, well away from all the paintwork and complicated bits of overhead at Didcot




It is not all going to change at Oxford within a dew years.

As James T correctly states, the resignalling was a factor in the delay but when that was tackled, the track layout between Hinksey, the station and Oxford North junction was adjusted at the same time and the carriage sidings altered, so it has all been ready and waiting for the wires to go up for several years now.

The four existing tracks through the station will simply be severed, then reconnected, when the new bridge is put in place, which includes a new deck section for the line into platform 5 on the west side.

The other work needed for platform 5 was designed at the same time as the resignalling and involves inserting points into the down loop line north and south of the station, with track laid between them on the west side of the station and signals installed and plugged in - so it will also be ready for wires to go up, should someone in the DfT ever see sense.

And if a new Oxford station building and alterations to the platforms at the east side of the station ever get the go-ahead, the four tracks through the station and the platform 5 line will stay just where they are - and trackwork associated with any extra through platform(s) on the east side would be tackled in the same way as platform 5 - a simple add-on job. Platforms 1 and 2 were deliberately aligned when they were built to allow for their extension south through the site of the current main station building to create through lines and/or extended bay platforms.

I have lost count of the number of times I have been through all this now - can people please stop repeating the claim that there will be changes at Oxford before electrification? The big stuff, bar the new bridge (which was never a requirement for wiring to happen) is all in place.

Thank you for the correction. I suppose it’s one of those schemes that had less impact when dropped from Great Western electrification. After all the freight along with Chiltern and Cross Country are diesel only and most GWR services need to be bimodal for their onward journey to Worcester/Hereford anyway.