If a train turns up with a 1st class compartment/coach, it should always be classified as such

[PupCuff]

Moderator note: Split from

IET 1st class dispute

So having spoke to the very helpful @yorkie I have been encouraged to make a thread on the issue above so please feel free to add your opinions,experiences. So for my issue I experienced today I was on an IET from Truro at 13:01 to (What was meant to be Penzance) Redruth so I sat in the 1st...

www.railforums.co.uk

I can't help but think that the easiest industry solution would be to add to the NRCOT that if a train turns up with First Class, it's got First Class, regardless of what twitter/a third party retailer/some bloke at the pub says ...

 

[Jan Mayen]

Perhaps every train on the National Rail Network should First Accommodation. Including Merseyrail.
And London UndergrounD, where running on Network Rail.

 

[30907]

regardless of what twitter/a third party retailer/some bloke at the pub says ...

Regardless of what the official published timetable and electronic data (as incthis case) says?

 

[Recessio]

Not sure how well that would go down on Sutton Loop Thameslink services where both first class compartments are permanently declassified

 

[Bletchleyite]

Perhaps every train on the National Rail Network should First Accommodation. Including Merseyrail.
And London UndergrounD, where running on Network Rail.

In Germany there are S-Bahnen with 1st...

 

[stevieinselby]

I can't help but think that the easiest industry solution would be to add to the NRCOT that if a train turns up with First Class, it's got First Class, regardless of what twitter/a third party retailer/some bloke at the pub says ...

On flows that are not booked to have trains with First Class, there may be no First Class fares available. If Northern had a train running on the Yorkshire Coast line with First Class, it would be empty unless any passengers were travelling on some kind of First Class Rover ticket.

 

[Jan Mayen]

On flows that are not booked to have trains with First Class, there may be no First Class fares available. If Northern had a train running on the Yorkshire Coast line with First Class, it would be empty unless any passengers were travelling on some kind of First Class Rover ticket.

That we be me, then. Do Northern do 1st Class?

 

[stevieinselby]

Do Northern do 1st Class?

I'm not aware that they have any First Class at all – but they have in the past occasionally hired in trains from other operators that have included a First Class section.

But there are other operators that do have a mix of Standard-only and First Class routes, and where trains could move between the two. South Western is an example where class 450s, which do include First Class compartments, regularly run on routes that are booked as Standard only and have no First Class fares.

 

[Transilien]

I think the main challenge with this would be changing the ticketing system every time a train with first class is allocated to a route. Rail operators like being flexible with their trains and therefore this would cause problems with fleets where only some units have first class.

 

[Kite159]

I think the main challenge with this would be changing the ticketing system every time a train with first class is allocated to a route. Rail operators like being flexible with their trains and therefore this would cause problems with fleets where only some units have first class.

Especially in Scotland where the Tweedbank line & Fife stopping services are run with a mix of 158s & 170s, do they change the ticketing system to sell 1st class tickets for when a 170 (with first class seating) gets allocated etc

 

[Class15]

Not sure how well that would go down on Sutton Loop Thameslink services where both first class compartments are permanently declassified

Exactly, and I don’t know how that would even work as most people on those trains use Contactless or Oyster!

 

[Topological]

Where would all this leave TfW's failure on the 197s?

My problem with declassified first is that it is only people who "know" about things like timetable data who can confidently use it. Yes there are chancers who will try to sit in first class whatever, but they do not care whether the first class seat is genuinely a first class seat. For most passengers they are being forced into the standard class seats.

I suspect many who "know" it is declassified just want to have a big seat where they won't be bothered. This is what was happening with TfW where many would walk into the busier section of the train because they were worried the waste of money big seats were actually a premium product. Great for those of us who sat there, but not a way to run a railway for the public.

The ToCs should do more to say that the train is declassified, including in the announcements/PIS.

 

[Falcon1200]

The ToCs should do more to say that the train is declassified, including in the announcements/PIS.

Yes. If a train service is advertised as Standard Class only, but stock with First Class seating turns up, that should be automatically declassified and passengers advised via Passenger Information Systems and station and on-train announcements.

 

[zwk500]

Moderator note: Split from

IET 1st class dispute

So having spoke to the very helpful @yorkie I have been encouraged to make a thread on the issue above so please feel free to add your opinions,experiences. So for my issue I experienced today I was on an IET from Truro at 13:01 to (What was meant to be Penzance) Redruth so I sat in the 1st...

www.railforums.co.uk

I can't help but think that the easiest industry solution would be to add to the NRCOT that if a train turns up with First Class, it's got First Class, regardless of what twitter/a third party retailer/some bloke at the pub says ...

The first part of the answer is to be better at saying if/when 1st class is declassified (and using Electronic reservations to say so if available) and the 2nd part is to have sufficient stock and maintenance so that the right trains turn up for the right services. The latter obviously requires government buy-in, of course.

 

[etr221]

Not sure how well that would go down on Sutton Loop Thameslink services where both first class compartments are permanently declassified

Exactly, and I don’t know how that would even work as most people on those trains use Contactless or Oyster!

Last time I was catching a train at Mitcham Junction (on that line) it struck me that (without doing a complete check of them all) ALL trains (Southern and Thameslink) are 'standard class only' (in TT, as I think they have been for 80 years, so 'first class tickets not available') but ALL trains have first class accomodation (despite having been built in the last 10 or 20 years)

 

[Mikey C]

Not sure how well that would go down on Sutton Loop Thameslink services where both first class compartments are permanently declassified

The Rainham Thameslink services as well.

Indeed the 700s are a bit of shambles really, with so many services having declassified 1st class at one end or both ends.

 

[Railcar]

Last time I was catching a train at Mitcham Junction (on that line) it struck me that (without doing a complete check of them all) ALL trains (Southern and Thameslink) are 'standard class only' (in TT, as I think they have been for 80 years, so 'first class tickets not available') but ALL trains have first class accomodation (despite having been built in the last 10 or 20 years)

Southern's 4-coach formations of Class 377 are used for Metro and long-distance services. First is Declassified on Metro services, but not on long-distance. Theoretically, on a train leaving Victoria for the coast on the Brighton Main Line, one can sit in First until the train passes Coulsdon South (the boundary of Zone 6) and then move to Standard to remain legal. From observation, it is railway staff, drivers, OBS's and the Orange Army, who sit in First when coming on or off duty.