If GWR scrap the 769s then what?

[507020]

Fair point and I must confess I was not sure of the complete story for the 769's for both Northern and TFW. Okay, you may not be able to have DC power with it, but I am surprised that GWR did not follow Greater Anglia/TFW down the Stadler Flirt route. But I guess it was down to the DFT deciding what they should be equipped with to run their trains.

Stadler FLIRT bi-modes would obviously have been the best solution. I’m not entirely sure how Greater Anglia actually managed to order such a high quality product in this day and age.

I believe they are getting fitted with air cooling/ air con in the cabs now. I think the problem now is getting them to work, not sure how many if any drivers have been trained.

This will obviously affect performance on Diesel mode. If air con has to be powered when only a limited amount of electricity is able to be produced, less will be available for traction. I wonder what affect that will have though.

 

[D365]

Fair point and I must confess I was not sure of the complete story for the 769's for both Northern and TFW. Okay, you may not be able to have DC power with it, but I am surprised that GWR did not follow Greater Anglia/TFW down the Stadler Flirt route. But I guess it was down to the DFT deciding what they should be equipped with to run their trains.

The 769/9s were supposed to be a quick fix to cover for the 387s now operating HEx.

 

[JonathanH]

The 769/9s were supposed to be a quick fix to cover for the 387s now operating HEx.

To be pedantic, the 769/9s were supposed to be a quick fix to release Turbos to cover for the 387s now operating HEx, prior to 345s working out to Reading.

They would have needed to be in service four years ago for that to work though, and the HEx depot didn't need to shut as early as planned.

 

[snakeydave24]

So, now that it seems the 769's are going to be no more, does anyone think 100 x 3-car 755/756 fleet could solve all the issues? That gives a few extra trains over what currently exists, which should solve the problem of trains being short-formed and replacing the entire diesel fleet with modern Bi/Tri Mode trains I'm sure would be welcome across the East and West, you might have to be a bit creative with SDO but I'm sure something could be worked out, a guy can dream

 

[HamworthyGoods]

So, now that it seems the 769's are going to be no more, does anyone think 100 x 3-car 755/756 fleet could solve all the issues? That gives a few extra trains over what currently exists, which should solve the problem of trains being short-formed and replacing the entire diesel fleet with modern Bi/Tri Mode trains I'm sure would be welcome across the East and West, you might have to be a bit creative with SDO but I'm sure something could be worked out, a guy can dream

Slight problem - you can’t just buy a train under public procurement laws - that’s why you set up a competitive tender which is what GWR is preparing, was outlined in a recent Modern Railways. You can specify a train similar to a 755 but you can’t say I just want 100 x 755s, procurement doesn’t work like that.

 

[snakeydave24]

Slight problem - you can’t just buy a train under public procurement laws - that’s why you set up a competitive tender which is what GWR has done, was outlined in a recent Modern Railways. You can specify a train similar to a 755 but you can’t say I just want 100 x 755s, procurement doesn’t work like that.

I didn't think it did, just think something drastic like that does need to happen though, the fleet is really struggling at the moment

 

[RPI]

Slight problem - you can’t just buy a train under public procurement laws - that’s why you set up a competitive tender which is what GWR has done, was outlined in a recent Modern Railways. You can specify a train similar to a 755 but you can’t say I just want 100 x 755s, procurement doesn’t work like that.

Have I missed something? Have GWR set up a competitive tender for DMU replacement?

 

[HamworthyGoods]

Have I missed something? Have GWR set up a competitive tender for DMU replacement?

The update in Modern Railways was they are working through requirements for a competitive tender to go out next year or so for an entry into traffic for 2028 or so. Apologies I should have said preparing not done.

 

[JonathanH]

Have I missed something? Have GWR set up a competitive tender for DMU replacement?

No, there is an exercise to consider what the requirement may be for DMU replacement after 2028.

 

[RPI]

No, there is an exercise to consider what the requirement may be for DMU replacement after 2028.

Thanks for clearing that up, got excited then

The update in Modern Railways was they are working through requirements for a competitive tender to go out next year or so for an entry into traffic for 2028 or so. Apologies I should have said preparing not done.

Build me up then let me down....

 

[RobShipway]

So, now that it seems the 769's are going to be no more, does anyone think 100 x 3-car 755/756 fleet could solve all the issues? That gives a few extra trains over what currently exists, which should solve the problem of trains being short-formed and replacing the entire diesel fleet with modern Bi/Tri Mode trains I'm sure would be welcome across the East and West, you might have to be a bit creative with SDO but I'm sure something could be worked out, a guy can dream

I cannot see the trains being tendered for having any sort of diesel power. Whilst they still maybe bi/tri mode but with the capability to be used OHLE, 3rd rail and on battery power.

It is a shame that the 769's will be no more and was a good idea if it could have been put into practice sooner for GWR.

 

[Trainbike46]

While I hope you are right on there being no diesel, I do wonder how you would charge trains that serve the cornish branches. My preference would be electrifying the line to Penzance, and charge the branch line trains while running on the mainline, or standing at the interchange stations

 

[RPI]

Cardiff Portsmouth would be a good short term use for them, could allow a cascade to get rid of some 150's (not that I'd personally like to get rid of the 150's, but looking from a pragmatic point of view).

 

[JonathanH]

Cardiff Portsmouth would be a good short term use for them, could allow a cascade to get rid of some 150's (not that I'd personally like to get rid of the 150's, but looking from a pragmatic point of view).

Are you suggesting that a) there is more capacity at the 'West' depots to learn 769s than at Reading, b) ASLEF would accept them and c) GWR would somehow reverse their decision to off lease the units?

Short term use doesn't make the driver / guard training more affordable. It makes it worse. More to the point, the 769s wouldn't be able to keep to 158 / Turbo timings.

If Cardiff-Portsmouth needs more units then cuts need to be made elsewhere on the GWR network to deliver the necessary resources from within the existing fleet.

Any suggestion here and in the 769 withdrawal thread of further work for the 19 GWR units appears to be highly misplaced. The decision has been made to take them off lease in the context of cuts in railway spending which don't only affect GWR. The 769s simply aren't going to appear on another route as that involves the overall railway leasing more stock when the priority for the DfT is to find as many easy wins to cull rolling stock as possible.

 

[RPI]

Are you suggesting that a) there is more capacity at the 'West' depots to learn 769s than at Reading, b) ASLEF would accept them and c) GWR would somehow reverse their decision to off lease the units?

Short term use doesn't make the driver / guard training more affordable. It makes it worse. More to the point, the 769s wouldn't be able to keep to 158 / Turbo timings.

If Cardiff-Portsmouth needs more units then cuts need to be made elsewhere on the GWR network to deliver the necessary resources from within the existing fleet.

Any suggestion here and in the 769 withdrawal thread of further work for the 19 GWR units appears to be highly misplaced. The decision has been made to take them off lease in the context of cuts in railway spending which don't only affect GWR. The 769s simply aren't going to appear on another route as that involves the overall railway leasing more stock when the priority for the DfT is to find as many easy wins to cull rolling stock as possible.

Blimey chill! I don't for one second think that they will actually do it!

 

[RobShipway]

While I hope you are right on there being no diesel, I do wonder how you would charge trains that serve the cornish branches. My preference would be electrifying the line to Penzance, and charge the branch line trains while running on the mainline, or standing at the interchange stations

The best way would initially to be to build charge points at Penzance, but yes it would be better to be electrifying the line to Penzance. The building of the charge points could be done in preparation of electrifying the line.