If The Class 195 and 331 was used on Another Operator what would it be

[HeadboltTrains]

Just curious, but I’m asking if The Class 195s and 331s will ever be on other operators, Thank You.

 

[Geeves]

Both the 331s and 195s have a home for the duration of their working lives, that's along side the full replacement of the 15x fleet.

Speculation on my part is that the full 195 fleet will end up in the North East in the not too distant future

 

[Bletchleyite]

Speculation on my part is that the full 195 fleet will end up in the North East in the not too distant future

Not sure I agree. The intention of ordering two car units was that they would be eventually cascaded onto the likes of Headbolt Lane, Ormskirk, the Cumbrian Coast etc. The new units are going to be 3/4 car sets or equivalent which will be overkill for this sort of route.

Outside of a Beeching Mk2 that closed all these lines I can't see them all moving east.

 

[Donny Dave]

As a (direct) replacement for pacers and 15x units, I think the 195s could be better. The interior and door layout is more for inter-regional services, similar to the 170s. However, while the doors may be OK, the interior definitely isn't for frequent stopping services, such ad The Hope Valley on a Saturday.

 

[HeadboltTrains]

What I’m tryna say is will they ever be on another operator as well as northern

 

[Bletchleyite]

What I’m tryna say is will they ever be on another operator as well as northern

I'm not totally sure TOCs will exist as a thing before too long.

 

[james_the_xv]

I'm not totally sure TOCs will exist as a thing before too long.

Even if they do as branding exercises, changes in how stock is allocated to 'TOCs' will probably change for the better.

 

[Doomotron]

What I’m tryna say is will they ever be on another operator as well as northern

That's impossible to say. None of us can predict the future, and some completely unexpected transfers have happened in the past few years, like 180s to EMR. The only sensible suggestion for another operator right now would be WMR or TFW, as they already operated Civities and it would be a sensible expansion of the fleet in the distant future when new Civities aren't being built.

 

[Mollman]

I think there are two things here:
1. It is likely that whatever succeeds Northern under GBR will be split up as Mayoral control takes away local work in the City Regions. Whilst I am sure the mayors will want shiny new trains some 195s and 331s will at least be used as interim in those areas
2. It is likely that if GBR / government gets it's act together electrification will free up 196s from West Midlands which could head to 'Northern' area - 4 car sets would be ideal for Blackpool to York for instance

 

[swt_passenger]

What I’m tryna say is will they ever be on another operator as well as northern

Do you mean, will any additional trains of the same classes be ordered for other operators? It’s a tricky question, because another operator may well organise different class numbers even if it’s a 99% identical train. Just because they can.

 

[Bevan Price]

I think there are two things here:
1. It is likely that whatever succeeds Northern under GBR will be split up as Mayoral control takes away local work in the City Regions. Whilst I am sure the mayors will want shiny new trains some 195s and 331s will at least be used as interim in those areas
2. It is likely that if GBR / government gets it's act together electrification will free up 196s from West Midlands which could head to 'Northern' area - 4 car sets would be ideal for Blackpool to York for instance

Mayors are unlikely to have enough funds for new trains They will get whatever is available at the local depot(s) of "new national operator".

 

[DanNCL]

Speculation on my part is that the full 195 fleet will end up in the North East in the not too distant future

I would predict the opposite, that the full fleet will end up in the North West in the not too distant future, or at the very least all of the 2 car units.

The Cumbrian Coast would take up a not insignificant number of the 2 car units, then there’s also routes like Morecambe, Blackpool South, Colne, Ormskirk etc.
I guess the S&C and the Bentham line are also both long term possibilities for 195s, seeing as neither stand a hope in hells chance of being wired.

The North East on the other hand has quite a bit of interaction with OHLE lines, and after the eventual ECML timetable recast will have hourly services that are almost entirely under the wires, therefore I’d expect the North East to get some of the new bi-mode units.

 

[ScottGallagher]

After the Grange over Sands incident a few months ago we now know that the 195's can now get to Carlisle via the Cumbrian Coast albeit under restriction and they presumably didn't scrape anything so this is a likely home eventually.

 

[LNW-GW Joint]

Modern trains are tied to their maintenance location, which is often run by the manufacturer, not the TOC.
195s and 331s are tied to CAF maintenance depots, although Northern didn't initially contract CAF for the maintenance.
So maintenance is split across the Pennines.
TfW did contract directly withthe manufacturer, so their Civity fleet is maintained by CAF at Chester.
Theoretically, Civitys could go to any TOC from the regional stable, including TfW and Scotrail, but all TOCs currently have their own plans for new/replacement stock and there's no pressure on Northern to cascade their stock onwards.
LNER's new stock might change the Civity map somewhat, but they will be running 125mph CAF stock (as does TPE with 397s).
And who know what the TOC structure will be like under GBR - Northern might even be split east and west, or merged with TPE, or both.

 

[D365]

Theoretically, Civitys could go to any TOC from the regional stable, including TfW and Scotrail, but all TOCs currently have their own plans for new/replacement stock and there's no pressure on Northern to cascade their stock onwards.
LNER's new stock might change the Civity map somewhat, but they will be running 125mph CAF stock (as does TPE with 397s).

The LNER CAFs will reportedly be based at Neville Hill.