If you took over SWR.

[HowardGWR]

There seems to be a general view expressed here that there is a lot of business available that is presently being suppressed. I must say I do agree that there is a case to take the Swanage line back into NR and run, at least, a shuttle to Bournemouth. The better services from Weymouth northwards via Westbury also would find a waiting market, presently not exploited, but would probably need more re-dualling, either side of the Evershot tunnel and also in the Sparkford area.

 

[infobleep]

There seems to be a general view expressed here that there is a lot of business available that is presently being suppressed. I must say I do agree that there is a case to take the Swanage line back into NR and run, at least, a shuttle to Bournemouth. The better services from Weymouth northwards via Westbury also would find a waiting market, presently not exploited, but would probably need more re-dualling, either side of the Evershot tunnel and also in the Sparkford area.

I wonder how much suppressed demand there is to Clapham Junction. Yes I know the reasons why trains can't stop there but that doesn't mean surppressed demand won't exist even if it had to be remain as such for eternity.

 

[BluePenguin]

The first change I would make would be to upgrade the Wi-Fi on the trains. I would also run some services into Kent and Sussex allowing passengers to connect with other lines withiut going into London.

I would also reduce the incredibly expensive ticket prices. Fares on this route cost a fortune. I guess this wouldn't be possible as they are set by the government. Because of this I would run more promotions to encourage lesuire travel to new and exciting destinations holding events. A 2 for 1 offer would be a must.

 

[3141]

Spoiler: Colour Coding Key

Service operated by 158/9s
Service operated by 442s
Service operated by 444s
Service operated by 450s
Service operated by 701s
Service operated by Tube**

I'd be pleased if, before you print timetables for each of these services in their own colour, you hire someone who is familiar with some of the websites that show what things look like to people who don't have perfect colour vision, such as www.colourblindawareness.org .

I can see that your 442s are slightly lighter than the 159s, the 444s, and the Tube, but I don't know what colours they are. Probably brown, green, orange and red, as there are four of them, but I don't know which is which. Your 701s are slightly paler than the 450s, which are probably blue, which could mean that the 701s are pink.

If, as the franchise operator, you don't take suitable steps to help people with colour vision deficiencies, then when you have a drivers' strike I'll be volunteering to take charge of a train, and then you'll really be in trouble.

 

[Agent_Squash]

What I would do is first of all get the DofT to let National Rail take over Swanage Railway services. I would also take all 3 car 158s and some 2 car sets from Northern, reclassing the 3 car sets as 159201 - 159208. They are getting new stock anyway, they won’t need all of their 158s! I would also send the 450/5s off lease as they aren’t required anymore with these plans.

I'm sure many Northern commuters would be furious if you took their 158s off them - just because the South is busy doesn't mean the North doesn't have overcrowding too...

 

[BluePenguin]

I'm sure many Northern commuters would be furious if you took their 158s off them - just because the South is busy doesn't mean the North doesn't have overcrowding too...

Yes the trains in the North are very very busy and over crowding is just as big a problem.

However the powers that be in the South don't care and would happily steal their carriges if they could

 

[AFC440]

I’d like to see a quicker service on the Waterloo-Bournemouth/Weymouth route. If that means skipping Woking, Basingstoke and Brockenhurst then so be it. You could always extend the Lymington service to Southampton to give greater connections to the fast service

 

[BluePenguin]

I’d like to see a quicker service on the Waterloo-Bournemouth/Weymouth route. If that means skipping Woking, Basingstoke and Brockenhurst then so be it. You could always extend the Lymington service to Southampton to give greater connections to the fast service

There is already a few peak services to and from Southampton that only stop at Winchester along the way. Perhaps these services could be used for those services to Lymington?

 

[Helvellyn]

Well as it is planet fantasy and we're strolling through the Magic Money Tree Orchard...

• Get a franchise where rather than paying half the fare box to HM Treasury a big chunk of that (say 25% of the fare box) can be kept year on year for major infrastructure improvements to drive improvements for the passengers of the SW network: -
  • Dust off those early 2000s proposals from the abortive 20-year SWT franchise for a rebuild and resite of Clapham Junction (moved towards London).
  • Gold plate the infrastructure Surbiton inwards (another 20-year franchise proposal that was abandoned) to make the most densely used part of the network resilient.
  • Build the missing flyovers - Woking and Basingstoke - as well as exploring if they could be built at Eastleigh and St Denys/Northam.
  • Options to replace level crossings on the Windsor lines (e.g. Barnes).
  • Resignalling of the St Denys - Cosham route to improve headways.
  • Re-open Alton to Winchester (and double track Farnham-Alton) with a grade separated junction where the 'Southern Alps' route joins the SWML.
  • Swanage Railway brought back into NR ownership.
  • Replace the Fareham - Gosport guided busway with heavy rail.
  • Power supply upgrade Poole - Weymouth with single line sections doubled.
  • Line speed improvements Salisbury - Exter with expansion of dynamic loops and eventual aim of re-doubling throughout.
  • Reinstate four tracks through Micheldever (from South of the Popham tunnels) with a view of building out the embankments to join up with the Wallers Ash loops in a Phase 2 to effectively create dynamic loops for freight traffic.
  • Signalling improvements on Portsmouth Direct to improve headways with improvements to loop entry at Haslemere; reinstatement of Up loop platform at Petersfield (to allow better service recovery); and construction of new island platform at Havant where the through lines used to be.
• I acknowledge the above can't all be delivered in one go, but it should be a planned scheme of major investment over 10-20 years to look at how one of the most profitable franchises can keep delivering capacity for passengers.
• This would form the basis for enhancing and recasting the timetable. I suspect even SWT had views on a recast from December this year, so I will summarise what I'd consider as a service plan rather than an exact timetable. This includes some service transfers.
  • SWML fast services (current 1Wxx) through to Dorset - two trains per hour to Weymouth become one per hour to Weymouth and one per hour to Swanage.
    • Waterloo - Clapham - Woking or Basingstoke - Winchester - Parkway - Soton Ctl - Brockenhurst - Bournemouth - Poole - mix of stops as appropriate through to Swanage or Weymouth.
  • SWML semi-fast services (current 1Txx/2Bxx) to remain two per hour hour but dividing/attaching at Eastleigh to give a thirty minute service through the New Forest and same towards Gosport/Portsmouth.
    • Waterloo - Woking - Farnborough - Fleet - Basingstoke - Micheldever (1 tph) - Winchester - Shawford (1 tph) - Eastleigh:
      • Portion on to Parkway - Swaythling (1 tph) - St Denys (1 1tph) - Soton Ctl - all stations to Bournemouth.
      • Portion on to Hedge End - Botley - Fareham then:
        • 1 tph on to Fort Brockhurst - Gosport.
        • 1 tph on to Portsmouth Harbour (all stations).
  • Current Portsmouth - Cardiff GWR service transferred to SW franchise.
    • Current hourly service replaced by a new half-hourly Portsmouth Hbr - Bristol TM service (Bristol - Cardiff to be covered by GWR and reduce SW crewing costs).
    • Current Waterloo - Bristol services withdrawn but better connections planned in at Salisbury given thirty minute frequency on the 'core' inter-Wessex route.
  • Weymouth - Bristol TM transferred to SW franchise.
  • West of England route equipped with new 100mph 5-car DEMU fleet.
    • Look to speed up services by having services split at Basingstoke (after having stopped at either Clapham Junction or Woking).
      • one half-hourly fast portion runs non-stop to Salisbury then on to Gillingham and all stations to Yeovil Pen Mill (via Yeovil Junction)
      • one half-hourly fast portion runs non-stop to Salisbury then on to Gillingham, Yeovil Junction and all stations through to Exeter St Davids.
      • half-hourly all stations stopping portion to Gillingham (include consideration to re-opening Wilton, Dinton and Semley).
  • Portsmouth Line to get four trains per hour with two fast and two semi-fast.
    • Consider if semi-fast could split/join at Guildford with a portion running non-stop to Haslemere then all stations to Portsmouth and a portion all stations to Haslemere.
  • I'd have kept the 30 5-car 707s supplemented by 60 10-car 707s but added toilets to give a standardised suburban fleet.
  • Windsor line timetable recast to give: -
    • 2 tph semi-fast to Reading (via Richmond)
    • 2 tph stopping to Ascot (via Hounslow)
    • 2 tph semi-fast to Windsor ER (via Richmond)
    • 2 tph stopping to Windsor ER (via Hounslow)
    • 2 tph Waterloo to Waterloo (via Hounslow and Richmond)
    • 2 tph Waterloo to Waterloo (via Richmond and Hounslow)
    • 2 tph Waterloo to Waterloo (via Richmond and Kingston)
    • 2 tph Waterloo to Waterloo (via Kingston and Richmond)
    • 2 tph Waterloo to Shepperton (via Richmond)
    • 2 tph Reading to Weybridge (Bay) (via reinstated curve at Virginia Water).
  • Metro services to Woking, Hampton Court, Shepperton (via Kingston), Dorking, Chessington South and Guildford pretty much as now.
  • Basingstoke and Alton semi-fast services pretty much as now but look at revising the Alton line services:
    • off-peak one Waterloo service terminates at Farnham; other runs through to Winchester (continue to new turnback siding at Shawford P3?).
    • 1tph Guildford - Farnham 1 tph and 1 tph Guildford - Southampton.
    • 2 tph Ascot - Aldershot.
  • North Downs Line transferred to SW franchise with hourly semi-fast Reading - Gatwick service and hourly stopping Reading - Redhill service.

I'd carry on but I'm needed for a drug and alcohol test.

 

[TT-ONR-NRN]

Love it. A flyover at Woking would be next to impossible but apart from that! I’m so glad you mentioned reopening the Alresford line too I planned to say that as well no lie.

Well as it is planet fantasy and we're strolling through the Magic Money Tree Orchard...

• Get a franchise where rather than paying half the fare box to HM Treasury a big chunk of that (say 25% of the fare box) can be kept year on year for major infrastructure improvements to drive improvements for the passengers of the SW network: -
  • Dust off those early 2000s proposals from the abortive 20-year SWT franchise for a rebuild and resite of Clapham Junction (moved towards London).
  • Gold plate the infrastructure Surbiton inwards (another 20-year franchise proposal that was abandoned) to make the most densely used part of the network resilient.
  • Build the missing flyovers - Woking and Basingstoke - as well as exploring if they could be built at Eastleigh and St Denys/Northam.
  • Options to replace level crossings on the Windsor lines (e.g. Barnes).
  • Resignalling of the St Denys - Cosham route to improve headways.
  • Re-open Alton to Winchester (and double track Farnham-Alton) with a grade separated junction where the 'Southern Alps' route joins the SWML.
  • Swanage Railway brought back into NR ownership.
  • Replace the Fareham - Gosport guided busway with heavy rail.
  • Power supply upgrade Poole - Weymouth with single line sections doubled.
  • Line speed improvements Salisbury - Exeter with expansion of dynamic loops and eventual aim of re-doubling throughout.
  • Reinstate four tracks through Micheldever (from South of the Popham tunnels) with a view of building out the embankments to join up with the Wallers Ash loops in a Phase 2 to effectively create dynamic loops for freight traffic.
  • Signalling improvements on Portsmouth Direct to improve headways with improvements to loop entry at Haslemere; reinstatement of Up loop platform at Petersfield (to allow better service recovery); and construction of new island platform at Havant where the through lines used to be.
• I acknowledge the above can't all be delivered in one go, but it should be a planned scheme of major investment over 10-20 years to look at how one of the most profitable franchises can keep delivering capacity for passengers.
• This would form the basis for enhancing and recasting the timetable. I suspect even SWT had views on a recast from December this year, so I will summarise what I'd consider as a service plan rather than an exact timetable. This includes some service transfers.
  • SWML fast services (current 1Wxx) through to Dorset - two trains per hour to Weymouth become one per hour to Weymouth and one per hour to Swanage.
    • Waterloo - Clapham - Woking or Basingstoke - Winchester - Parkway - Soton Ctl - Brockenhurst - Bournemouth - Poole - mix of stops as appropriate through to Swanage or Weymouth.
  • SWML semi-fast services (current 1Txx/2Bxx) to remain two per hour hour but dividing/attaching at Eastleigh to give a thirty minute service through the New Forest and same towards Gosport/Portsmouth.
    • Waterloo - Woking - Farnborough - Fleet - Basingstoke - Micheldever (1 tph) - Winchester - Shawford (1 tph) - Eastleigh:
      • Portion on to Parkway - Swaythling (1 tph) - St Denys (1 1tph) - Soton Ctl - all stations to Bournemouth.
      • Portion on to Hedge End - Botley - Fareham then:
        • 1 tph on to Fort Brockhurst - Gosport.
        • 1 tph on to Portsmouth Harbour (all stations).
  • Current Portsmouth - Cardiff GWR service transferred to SW franchise.
    • Current hourly service replaced by a new half-hourly Portsmouth Hbr - Bristol TM service (Bristol - Cardiff to be covered by GWR and reduce SW crewing costs).
    • Current Waterloo - Bristol services withdrawn but better connections planned in at Salisbury given thirty minute frequency on the 'core' inter-Wessex route.
  • Weymouth - Bristol TM transferred to SW franchise.
  • West of England route equipped with new 100mph 5-car DEMU fleet.
    • Look to speed up services by having services split at Basingstoke (after having stopped at either Clapham Junction or Woking).
      • one half-hourly fast portion runs non-stop to Salisbury then on to Gillingham and all stations to Yeovil Pen Mill (via Yeovil Junction)
      • one half-hourly fast portion runs non-stop to Salisbury then on to Gillingham, Yeovil Junction and all stations through to Exeter St Davids.
      • half-hourly all stations stopping portion to Gillingham (include consideration to re-opening Wilton, Dinton and Semley).
  • Portsmouth Line to get four trains per hour with two fast and two semi-fast.
    • Consider if semi-fast could split/join at Guildford with a portion running non-stop to Haslemere then all stations to Portsmouth and a portion all stations to Haslemere.
  • I'd have kept the 30 5-car 707s supplemented by 60 10-car 707s but added toilets to give a standardised suburban fleet.
  • Windsor line timetable recast to give: -
    • 2 tph semi-fast to Reading (via Richmond)
    • 2 tph stopping to Ascot (via Hounslow)
    • 2 tph semi-fast to Windsor ER (via Richmond)
    • 2 tph stopping to Windsor ER (via Hounslow)
    • 2 tph Waterloo to Waterloo (via Hounslow and Richmond)
    • 2 tph Waterloo to Waterloo (via Richmond and Hounslow)
    • 2 tph Waterloo to Waterloo (via Richmond and Kingston)
    • 2 tph Waterloo to Waterloo (via Kingston and Richmond)
    • 2 tph Waterloo to Shepperton (via Richmond)
    • 2 tph Reading to Weybridge (Bay) (via reinstated curve at Virginia Water).
  • Metro services to Woking, Hampton Court, Shepperton (via Kingston), Dorking, Chessington South and Guildford pretty much as now.
  • Basingstoke and Alton semi-fast services pretty much as now but look at revising the Alton line services:
    • off-peak one Waterloo service terminates at Farnham; other runs through to Winchester (continue to new turnback siding at Shawford P3?).
    • 1tph Guildford - Farnham 1 tph and 1 tph Guildford - Southampton.
    • 2 tph Ascot - Aldershot.
  • North Downs Line transferred to SW franchise with hourly semi-fast Reading - Gatwick service and hourly stopping Reading - Redhill service.

I'd carry on but I'm needed for a drug and alcohol test.

mp

 

[BluePenguin]

The line from Fareham to Gosport is badly needed and should definitely be restored. I have walked along the old tracks in Gosport and before and I couldn't help but feel sad that such a good line was has gone to waste.

The buses are a good alternative and do a good job. However they take longer and it is more hassle to get off the train and wait for a bus before spending more money buying yet another ticket to ride the bus.

 

[cjmillsnun]

Give it back to Stagecoach.

THIS.

Also I would end the strike tomorrow. Every train would have a guard throughout the franchise.

 

[swt_passenger]

Love it. A flyover at Woking would be next to impossible...

Oh no it isn’t. See the current Wessex Route Study for how it can be done.

 

[D235 Apapa]

Oh no it isn’t. See the current Wessex Route Study for how it can be done.

Quite so. The proposed additional stabling sidings in the up yard had to take account of the footprint for the descending ramp and the slewing of the up slow to accommodate same, if my memory is correct. Can only presume that scenario as planned is still in the wings? Whether it'll ever be built is another matter...!

 

[MarkyT]

This is the concept sketch NR included in the Wessex Route Study:

Tweaking those ideas, this is what I'd do at Woking:

As in the route study, the up Portsmouth drops down (or rises up) between up fast and slow, with each track having its own platform available for arrivals from the west, and much parallel switching incorporated for maximum flexibility at the country and London ends. The Downside gets an extra through platform for the slow, with the fast moved over to the current slow face. The long 'pier' platform extending east between the two former fasts would be removed, the stopper remaining on the slow through the station, then drawing forward into a reversing siding alongside the Portsmouth line, before returning over the flyover to the up side.

 

[4-SUB 4732]

This is the concept sketch NR included in the Wessex Route Study:
View attachment 41349
Tweaking those ideas, this is what I'd do at Woking:
View attachment 41350
As in the route study, the up Portsmouth drops down (or rises up) between up fast and slow, with each track having its own platform available for arrivals from the west, and much parallel switching incorporated for maximum flexibility at the country and London ends. The Downside gets an extra through platform for the slow, with the fast moved over to the current slow face. The long 'pier' platform extending east between the two former fasts would be removed, the stopper remaining on the slow through the station, then drawing forward into a reversing siding alongside the Portsmouth line, before returning over the flyover to the up side.

I would have to say I'd drawn a 'back of the fag packet sketch' of Woking before and I too dropped the Up Portsmouth between the Slow and Fast for the very reason that the 'stopper' would extend to Guildford (no conflict required). One thing I might have to consider being equally necessary would be putting a sixth platform in aka 3 down, 3 up.

1 - Up Slow services e.g. Alton and Basingstoke off-peak and Up Guildford stoppers to Waterloo
2 - Up Portsmouth services all booked to call and therefore potentially waiting in platform for path on Up Fast
3 - Up Fast
4 - Down Fast
5 and 6 - Mixed Down Portsmouth and Down Slow as required in the train plan

 

[Wirewiper]

Just one idea from me: extend the Chessington South branch southwards along the built-but-never-used embankment to Chalky Lane. A single line will do. Build a new single-platform station with an elevated traffic-free walking route directly to Chessington World of Adventures.

 

[MarkyT]

I would have to say I'd drawn a 'back of the fag packet sketch' of Woking before and I too dropped the Up Portsmouth between the Slow and Fast for the very reason that the 'stopper' would extend to Guildford (no conflict required). One thing I might have to consider being equally necessary would be putting a sixth platform in aka 3 down, 3 up.

1 - Up Slow services e.g. Alton and Basingstoke off-peak and Up Guildford stoppers to Waterloo
2 - Up Portsmouth services all booked to call and therefore potentially waiting in platform for path on Up Fast
3 - Up Fast
4 - Down Fast
5 and 6 - Mixed Down Portsmouth and Down Slow as required in the train plan

I agree a 6th platform would be desirable, but unfortunately the site seems a bit snookered width-wise now, with the modern apartment block at the west end built so close to the south of the station. A dubious planning decision if ever there was one! At least in the down direction, the divergences and lack of conflict with up traffic immediately ahead mean there is little likelyhood of either platform that can be provided not clearing quickly, and in perturbation there are always diversions available via the up side. Five through platforms is a reasonable compromise.

 

[B&I]

Refurbished bi-mode 442s on the Exeter service

 

[joncombe]

There seems to be a general view expressed here that there is a lot of business available that is presently being suppressed. I must say I do agree that there is a case to take the Swanage line back into NR and run, at least, a shuttle to Bournemouth.

I think you are right and I would also like to see a regular service to Swanage. However I also think demand is suppressed over a much wider area. There are a lot of journeys that can be made pretty easily at off-peak times, but becomes much harder and more expensive at peak times. For example Southampton or Winchester to Woking is an easy journey off peak, but at peak times all trains from Southampton/Winchester skip Woking and most also skip Basingstoke too, so you have to use XC to Basingstoke and then the stopping train from Basingstoke to Woking. Similarly with all mainline trains from Woking and beyond not stopping at Clapham Junction in the peaks commutes to places in south west London away from the centre also become much more expensive and time consuming due to the cost premium needed to travel into Waterloo, which is the quickest route at peak times. I think the South Western route is unusual in that services often have very different stopping patterns in the peak than off peak.

I recall from the days of the slammers the "Vauxhall jump" being a popular past time, for instance, but not possible with modern stock of course. (For those not familiar trains are often reduced to a stop/start crawl into Waterloo in the peaks so on the slam door trains if trains stopped in the platform at Vauxhall, or even just ran through very slowly, there was usually a number of people opening the doors to get off).

 

[700007]

In terms of the line to Swanage, if it was electrified, rather than diverting one of the Weymouth services, surely extending the Poole service is better?

I liked the Reading & Farnham idea.

 

[IainG81]

I think the problem trying to run 2tph only between Reading and Southampton you'll get a back up behind the stopping services there's not enough capacity on the line for fast services. Seems like the Southern ones take forever to work along the coast. Two SWR an hour wouldn't work imv.

I would make a Brighton to Weymouth service.
2TPH Brighton to Weymouth at around XX15 and XX45 calling at only major stations between Southampton and Brighton
2 GWR services a day at Brighton is stupid and takes over 2 hours to get to Southampton asap

 

[Wombat]

I will have one maximum-priority service running non-stop from Epsom to Waterloo at 08:00, and back again at 18:00. The rest I will leave to the whims of my underlings.

On a marginally less fanciful note, I'd like to see some sort of carnet-style system as part of a national endeavour to support people working remotely and thereby making the commute less ridiculous for everyone.

 

[Wychwood93]

There is so much good stuff in here and I take it that the DfT would have to dig very deep, to say the least of it.

A flyover at Woking was started sometime in the 1930's, and I have been led to believe that some of the initial work still exists. Shame about the houses that are now there. There was also the idea of a high-level at Woking - a flyover for the Bournemouth Main Line with the Pompey service using the 'low-level'. A scheme which, so I was told, the populace of Woking would have been happy with.

I am not good at the suburban area - living near Christchurch all my life means that the delights of Chessington etc. and passenger flows are not a specialist subject. For the 'outer' area many issues could be resolved by longer trains - WoE in particular. For the latter a ramp up of linespeeds west of Basing (juice to Salisbury etc. are covered elsewhere) and new(er) traction more than useful - the 159s, bless them, do not have that many years left - what happens after needs to be sorted, and soon!

My local service is broadly fine and broadly similar in service pattern to 51 years ago - tweaks have happened, such as electrification to Weymouth. The fast services are slower than they were and the semi-fasts faster - due to stopping patterns. All in favour of the latter, as they stop at Christchurch, but I would like the fasts to be what it says on the tin, fast.

Perhaps I need a rootle in the loft to view the old timetables - too late now.

 

[fairysdad]

I will have one maximum-priority service running non-stop from Epsom to Waterloo at 08:00, and back again at 18:00. The rest I will leave to the whims of my underlings.

Do a bro a favour and stop it at Stoneleigh as well would you?

I would look at the possibility of increasing the capacity of the West of England line; having been on several services out of Waterloo in the past (admittedly, not since SWR took the reins, but can't imagine it's changed for the better!) which have been properly rammed and have had to sit on the floor in the vestibule right down past Salisbury. Perhaps even adding a later train, although that wouldn't get into Exeter 'til gone midnight.

 

[r37]

On a marginally less fanciful note, I'd like to see some sort of carnet-style system as part of a national endeavour to support people working remotely and thereby making the commute less ridiculous for everyone.

Yes! I really wish this could be brought in.

I'm not all that educated in these matters, but theoretically what is stopping them from doing this?