Illogical and haphazard stations

[Bletchleyite]

When I was younger, these were my favourite stations to go to:
1. Manchester Victoria
2. Perth (depot and carriage sidings highly visible from the platforms)
3. Chester

These stations are not 'well-organised' or architecturally coherent (unlike, for instance, Coventry) and routinely called 'dumps' on here, but actually as a younger enthusiast, these were my favourite places to be - an assortment of patched together bits, often a legacy of being joint stations, with different angles and bits of architecture that could form the backdrop to all sorts of different passenger and goods photos.

What are your favourite stations like this? Any photos appreciated, especially if from the Western or Eastern regions because they're the ones I've least travelled on.

One of my favourite stations is Edinburgh Waverley - it's just lovely in lots of ways. However, it does have a ridiculous platform numbering system that makes sense if you're looking at a map of it but doesn't on the ground - even more so if you're going to "bolt on" P8/9. Thus I think this counts

 

[Lemmy99uk]

It needs to be sign posted as a colleague of mine recently had to struggle over the bridge with someone in a wheelchair.

Well it’s pretty hard to miss if you’re using the bridge, it’s right next to it.

 

[61653 HTAFC]

I've just been to the 2 Wakefield stations last week for the first time. Arrived at Westgate, and left from Kirkgate - train from Kirkgate back to Leeds went the opposite direction to what I thought it would - didn't go back in Westgate direction.

One service per hour runs from Kirkgate to Westgate and back to Leeds that way- this is the ex-Knottingley service which uses platform 3 in both directions as it runs via Crofton and Featherstone.

 

[Magdalia]

Agreed St Pancras is horrible to use. Just getting from one part of the station to another is awkward. The concourses are too small, and the positioning of the escalators often results in having to walk extra distance. Then there’s the issue that flows are conflicting, not helped by large areas being given over to retail.

I always feel the whole thing could have been a lot better. EMR in particular feels like an afterthought, Southeastern not much better, and Thameslink is positioned seemingly for the benefit of Eurostar users, and rather less practically for anything else. At least one direct entrance/exit onto the street would have been useful.

St Pancras has at least 5 entrances/exits from/to the streets that I can think of, including one onto Midland Road right next to the Thameslink barrier line.

When the rebuilt station was first opened, the two escalators near to the EMR concourse were one down one up, but this was changed for safety reasons because of conflicting flows at top and bottom. That's why there is a longer walk to get to the EMR platforms from Thameslink via street level.

I don't know but I'm guessing that the subterranean box for the Thameslink station had to be built outside the foundations of the old trainshed, and that's why it is where it is.

 

[Bletchleyite]

St Pancras has at least 5 entrances/exits from/to the streets that I can think of, including one onto Midland Road right next to the Thameslink barrier line.

When the rebuilt station was first opened, the two escalators near to the EMR concourse were one down one up, but this was changed for safety reasons because of conflicting flows at top and bottom. That's why there is a longer walk to get to the EMR platforms from Thameslink via street level.

I don't know but I'm guessing that the subterranean box for the Thameslink station had to be built outside the foundations of the old trainshed, and that's why it is where it is.

I'm not sure the general layout of the platforms is that much of an issue. Even neighbouring Kings Cross has the suburban platforms at the far end.

The main thing St P lacks is a decent concourse. It could do with a big open "Great Hall" where you can see the magnificent roof.

 

[Basil Jet]

St Pancras has at least 5 entrances/exits from/to the streets that I can think of, including one onto Midland Road right next to the Thameslink barrier line.

When the rebuilt station was first opened, the two escalators near to the EMR concourse were one down one up, but this was changed for safety reasons because of conflicting flows at top and bottom. That's why there is a longer walk to get to the EMR platforms from Thameslink via street level.

I don't know but I'm guessing that the subterranean box for the Thameslink station had to be built outside the foundations of the old trainshed, and that's why it is where it is.

The Thameslink line is extremely curved under the trainshed, so I doubt if they could have put the platforms there even if gaps in the foundations allowed.

 

[Rescars]

I rather like Worcester Foregate Street. A simple two-platform affair, except that instead of having an Up and Down platform, they have a GWR and a West Midlands platform

It used to have conventional Up and Down platforms, but then the Worcester triangle was simplified and Rainbow Hill Junction disappeared.

 

[Meerkat]

I'm not sure the general layout of the platforms is that much of an issue. Even neighbouring Kings Cross has the suburban platforms at the far end.

The main thing St P lacks is a decent concourse. It could do with a big open "Great Hall" where you can see the magnificent roof.

Isn't that upstairs by the statue? If you walk up the ramped entrance and through the arch you get a great view.

 

[Rescars]

Waterloo has a surprise for the unwary with platforms A, B, C and D.

 

[bramling]

St Pancras has at least 5 entrances/exits from/to the streets that I can think of, including one onto Midland Road right next to the Thameslink barrier line.

When the rebuilt station was first opened, the two escalators near to the EMR concourse were one down one up, but this was changed for safety reasons because of conflicting flows at top and bottom. That's why there is a longer walk to get to the EMR platforms from Thameslink via street level.

I don't know but I'm guessing that the subterranean box for the Thameslink station had to be built outside the foundations of the old trainshed, and that's why it is where it is.

I believe the latter is correct, however I can see no reason why a direct exit from Thameslink onto Midland Road couldn’t have been provided, avoiding the concourse. Indeed there are emergency escape routes which do exactly this.

 

[Mcr Warrior]

Waterloo has a surprise for the unwary with platforms A, B, C and D.

Aren't they the platforms for the separate Waterloo East?

 

[Bletchleyite]

Isn't that upstairs by the statue? If you walk up the ramped entrance and through the arch you get a great view.

That's not a concourse. A concourse is the centre of a station, containing easy access to the booking office, TVMs, departure boards and all platforms. Think Euston's Great Hall or the new bit at Kings Cross.

The closest St P has to a concourse is the area just outside the Thameslink platforms where the large and mostly broken departure board is located. It could quite possibly have had one upstairs to the west of the Eurostar platforms, though that would mean having to roof over the shopping arcade and you'd need to go down and back up for HS1 domestics.

 

[Rescars]

Aren't they the platforms for the separate Waterloo East?

They are indeed.

 

[Ken H]

Last time I went to Moorfields shortly after link and loop opened, you had to go up to the first floor to the ticket hall then go back down to the platforms underground. Think there were plans for walkways that were never built. Seemed pretty mad. Is it still like that?

 

[bramling]

That's not a concourse. A concourse is the centre of a station, containing easy access to the booking office, TVMs, departure boards and all platforms. Think Euston's Great Hall or the new bit at Kings Cross.

The closest St P has to a concourse is the area just outside the Thameslink platforms where the large and mostly broken departure board is located. It could quite possibly have had one upstairs to the west of the Eurostar platforms, though that would mean having to roof over the shopping arcade and you'd need to go down and back up for HS1 domestics.

Yes the area outside the Thameslink entrance has as much appeal as Birmingham New Street’s platforms, and it doesn’t work particularly well due to all the conflicting flows.

The feeling given off is that the whole place has been given over to Eurostar, with EMR and Southeastern in particular feeling very much like an afterthought. Having such a feel is one thing, but they function poorly as a result. At least with Thameslink there’s the option to change elsewhere and avoid St Pancras altogether.

 

[61653 HTAFC]

Kings Cross is quite haphazard, as the lovely new concourse is full of tourists who aren't there to catch a train... just to queue up for the Barry Trotter related nonsense and get in the way!

 

[Sprinter107]

I rather like Worcester Foregate Street. A simple two-platform affair, except that instead of having an Up and Down platform, they have a GWR and a West Midlands platform

West Midlands uses both platforms at Worcester Foregate Street.

 

[geoffk]

Of course Victoria, London Bridge and Birmingham New St were originally two stations side by side and built by different companies. This history is still evident at Victoria while London Bridge and New Street have been totally rebuilt.

 

[Parallel]

I was quite surprised that I had to leave the station and cross a road to access a platform at a 90 degree angle to the others (the Looe-bound platform) the first time I used Liskeard.

 

[Mikey C]

I was quite surprised that I had to leave the station and cross a road to access a platform at a 90 degree angle to the others (the Looe-bound platform) the first time I used Liskeard.

If you catch the first train of the day out of Plymouth, and hide on the floor so that nobody sees you, you won't have to get out, and can ride between the platforms *

* I haven't done this, but am really tempted to do so next time I'm down there

 

[Tester]

Taking the liberty of looking overseas, how about Doai station in Japan?

It's a rural two platform unstaffed station with a conventional southbound platform. However the northbound platform is 70 metres underground in the middle of a tunnel. With 486 steps (no lift or escalators) it is quite an exercise to access!

This Wikipedia article gives more information and photos.

 

[zwk500]

Of course Victoria, London Bridge and Birmingham New St were originally two stations side by side and built by different companies. This history is still evident at Victoria while London Bridge and New Street have been totally rebuilt.

Although Victoria isn't illogical as the two sides operate largely separately and at London Bridge the platforms are sorted by destination and operator.

Wrexham General has a similar history, having absorbed Wrexham Exchange at some point along the way.

 

[Falcon1200]

I always feel the whole thing could have been a lot better. EMR in particular feels like an afterthought, Southeastern not much better, and Thameslink is positioned seemingly for the benefit of Eurostar users, and rather less practically for anything else. At least one direct entrance/exit onto the street would have been useful.

Given that the existing platforms at St Pancras were given over entirely to Eurostar, I'm not sure where else the EMR and South Eastern platforms could have gone! And as mentioned there is a road entrance right outside the Thameslink barrier line, which is particularly handy if coming from Euston via the back street route.

And I agree with the Edinburgh Waverley platform numbering issue, despite having been responsible as an Operations Controller for the area I still have to check and check again where to go; The previous system was far more intuitive, IMHO.

 

[Rescars]

Even at a simple two-platform station, getting from one side to the other can be remarkably complicated in some instances. To get from the ticket office to a Preston-bound train at Burnley Manchester Road involves walking out of the station, up the station approach, crossing over the line using the pavement alongside a busy main road and the descending a long and slippery footpath to the correct platform. All of which is distinctly unpleasant if it is raining heavily at the time (which it was when I visited last)!

 

[sprite]

Of course Victoria, London Bridge and Birmingham New St were originally two stations side by side and built by different companies. This history is still evident at Victoria while London Bridge and New Street have been totally rebuilt.

Leeds was 2 if I remember correctly. 1 terminus (Wellington) and 1 through on viaducts that was a joint station.

 

[geoffk]

Although Victoria isn't illogical as the two sides operate largely separately and at London Bridge the platforms are sorted by destination and operator.

Wrexham General has a similar history, having absorbed Wrexham Exchange at some point along the way.

While Manchester Vic and Exchange were built by different companies on opposite sides of the River Irwell and later joined end to end, with one long shared platform, by the LMS. I expect local passengers knew where Victoria ended and Exchange began!

 

[Rescars]

While Manchester Vic and Exchange were built by different companies on opposite sides of the River Irwell and later joined end to end, with one long shared platform, by the LMS. I expect local passengers knew where Victoria ended and Exchange began!

Silly question I expect, but was it ever possible to take a train from Victoria to Exchange and, if so, what was the fare?

 

[DynamicSpirit]

Farringdon has a very haphazard and illogical feel to it. Even before the Elizabeth line was added, when it was no more than 4 platforms side by side, it seemed to be a case study in how confusing you could make such a simple station, owing to there being no single simple overbridge that let you easily cross between any platforms. Then they added the Elizabeth line in such a way that you have direct escalator access only between the Elizabeth line and some platforms, with the main access to other platforms being via exiting and then entering the station again (unless you intimately know your way around the station and therefore know how to do it by walking along the Thameslink platforms and finding the correct set of stairs for the overbridge )

Whenever I use Farringdon, I feel like, how on Earth did they manage to make a simple 3-line interchange so complicated?

Also a shout out to several of the Elizabeth line stations; Liverpool Street, where the designers seem to have forgotten a basic principle of station design: That the idea is, you put the platforms where the station is, as opposed to half a mile or so [1] West of the station. And Canary Wharf, which would have been logical if it had occurred to anyone that, when you're building a completely separate self-contained new station, it's probably best to give it a separate name and advertise it as a separate station, rather than pretending on all the publicity/etc. that it's somehow part of another station located on the other side of the shopping centre.

[1] Poetic exaggeration.

 

[Dr Hoo]

Farringdon has a very haphazard and illogical feel to it. Even before the Elizabeth line was added, when it was no more than 4 platforms side by side, it seemed to be a case study in how confusing you could make such a simple station, owing to there being no single simple overbridge that let you easily cross between any platforms. Then they added the Elizabeth line in such a way that you have direct escalator access only between the Elizabeth line and some platforms, with the main access to other platforms being via exiting and then entering the station again (unless you intimately know your way around the station and therefore know how to do it by walking along the Thameslink platforms and finding the correct set of stairs for the overbridge )

Whenever I use it, I feel like, how on Earth did they manage to make a simple 3-line interchange so complicated?

Farringdon was much simpler in the past, with a single entrance on Cowcross Street and a single barrier line giving access via three (fairly narrow) staircases to the various platforms. No problem before Thameslink days, with fairly modest numbers using the Midland Suburban Electrification/'Bed-Pan' services to Moorgate plus Circle-Hammersmith-Met.

The growing congestion and need for lifts, secondary escape means and platform extensions meant a new entrance (in Turnmill Street?) and new footbridges even when it was still only two lines.

With the Crossrail platforms having to be east of the original complex and the absence of anything remotely resembling a large 'concourse' within the original footprint, together with the limited height differential between street level and the 'sub-surface' tracks there couldn't be a mezzanine 'interchange level' that there might be with deep tube lines.

How would you have done it differently?

 

[Magdalia]

Farringdon has a very haphazard and illogical feel to it. Even before the Elizabeth line was added, when it was no more than 4 platforms side by side, it seemed to be a case study in how confusing you could make such a simple station, owing to there being no single simple overbridge that let you easily cross between any platforms.

Farringdon was much simpler in the past, with a single entrance on Cowcross Street and a single barrier line giving access via three (fairly narrow) staircases to the various platforms. No problem before Thameslink days, with fairly modest numbers using the Midland Suburban Electrification/'Bed-Pan' services to Moorgate plus Circle-Hammersmith-Met.

The growing congestion and need for lifts, secondary escape means and platform extensions meant a new entrance (in Turnmill Street?) and new footbridges even when it was still only two lines.

Farringdon isn't illogical but it is haphazard for those wanting step free access.

Platforms 2, 3 and 4 are best accessed using the Thameslink entrance/exit on the south side of Cowcross Street, as this has conveniently positioned lifts. This is also good for access to/from the Elizabeth Line via platform 4.

The big problem is getting to and from platform 1, the eastbound Metropolitan platform. There is a footbridge spanning platforms 1-4 at the northern end, but it is narrow and not step free. Sometimes I want to arrive on a Thameslink train from the south into platform 4, then depart from platform 1 to get to Liverpool Street. I have yet to find a sensible step free route for this.