Improving Liverpool Central Low Level

[Bletchleyite]

They should take a leaf out of the book of the Scandi's at Central. I have been to a few stations where the outer walls are bare rock and they have cleaned them up/sealed them and project all things Scandinavian onto them - so mainly calming trees. You could have a lot of fun with that in a creative and historic city like Liverpool.

The trouble with Central is that the roof leaks like a sieve so you need the "false ceiling" to stop it dripping on people. Without that you could pressure-wash it all to get the muck off and then mood-light it, to make it look more like James St's semi-disused platform or the Haagse Tramtunnel rather than just a boring 1980s-like melamine-panelled hole. Even concrete can look nice with the right lighting.

Haagse tramtunnel

 

[modernrail]

...and here is Malmo low level....

 

[Bletchleyite]

Reminds me of the art installation at Sunderland, which is a surprisingly nice station for a buried concrete box full of DMU fumes, pity about the town above it though.

I'm sure something like that could be done for Merseyside. Chuck a bit of advertising in too and it might well cover a fair whack of the costs.

I note that also has a nicer "false ceiling" and more impressive lighting than the very utilitarian white one at Central. Another place to look for examples of making utilitarian concrete and steel look quite good is newer Tube stations e.g. Jubilee Line Extension.

 

[S&CLER]

Reminds me of the art installation at Sunderland, which is a surprisingly nice station for a buried concrete box full of DMU fumes, pity about the town above it though.

I'm sure something like that could be done for Merseyside. Chuck a bit of advertising in too and it might well cover a fair whack of the costs.

I note that also has a nicer "false ceiling" and more impressive lighting than the very utilitarian white one at Central. Another place to look for examples of making utilitarian concrete and steel look quite good is newer Tube stations e.g. Jubilee Line Extension.

What's the feasibility of opening up for an extra platform at Central? If it was as airy as, say, Earl's Court, it would be an improvement. And what happened to the idea of a station on the site of the old Head Post Office at Whitechapel (Liverpool, that is)?

My thanks also for the pic of the tram tunnel in The Hague. I lived there in the early 1970s, near the old Staatsspoor, later Centraal, when the whole of that area (Bezuidenhout) was still a giant building site, flattened by the RAF at the end of the war to put a V1 launch site out of action, if I'm not mistaken. We heard and read in the local papers a lot of talk about "semimetro" at that time, but I'd left before anything materialised.

 

[Bletchleyite]

It could be done but it'll cost. In my understanding there's a smallish header tunnel running parallel to the existing platforms which could potentially be dug out. You can see it out of the left hand side as you enter Central from the north.

I think there's a chance it might happen at some point but hopefully before anything goes on top of the site (it's just Network Rail buildings and a car park at present) as it'll be far cheaper if it can be done cut and cover. Indeed, in the 1970s rebuild fair chunks of it were opened out to the air.

 

[Mogz]

I’ve often wondered why they don’t restore Central Low Level (and indeed the other original Mersey Railway stations) to their Victorian splendour when refurbishing.

The recent underwhelming refurbishment of James Street and Hamilton Square proved that all of the original tiling and signage is still extant behind the modern facades.

 

[Bletchleyite]

Yes, I too was quite disappointed they were just done out as a more modern version of the 1970s interior.

 

[S&CLER]

It could be done but it'll cost. In my understanding there's a smallish header tunnel running parallel to the existing platforms which could potentially be dug out. You can see it out of the left hand side as you enter Central from the north.

I think there's a chance it might happen at some point but hopefully before anything goes on top of the site (it's just Network Rail buildings and a car park at present) as it'll be far cheaper if it can be done cut and cover. Indeed, in the 1970s rebuild fair chunks of it were opened out to the air.

That was as much by accident as by design, apparently. T.B. Maund's fascinating book Merseyrail Electrics, the Inside Story (2001), explains how the Central site in its present form emerged by a series of chances and makeshift adjustments, after the city's original plan for a wider redevelopment with an entrance on 2 levels came to naught. Perhaps it's just as well, as that would have made reconstruction much more difficult, or we might have had a repeat of the Moorfields situation, where you have to go up to go down. Rereading Maund's book made me wonder that the Loop and Link ever got built at all, or that they were done in about 13 years from the first plans, when you read what difficulties the project faced and overcame.

 

[John Griffiths]

Reminds me of the art installation at Sunderland, which is a surprisingly nice station for a buried concrete box full of DMU fumes, pity about the town above it though.

City!

 

[Bletchleyite]

City!

I should know it's a city, given that the only reason I ever went there (shan't be doing so again) was because of a personal project to run 5K in every city in the UK over the last two years (now completed) which has had me all over the network!

 

[Bletchleyite]

That was as much by accident as by design, apparently. T.B. Maund's fascinating book Merseyrail Electrics, the Inside Story (2001), explains how the Central site in its present form emerged by a series of chances and makeshift adjustments, after the city's original plan for a wider redevelopment with an entrance on 2 levels came to naught. Perhaps it's just as well, as that would have made reconstruction much more difficult, or we might have had a repeat of the Moorfields situation, where you have to go up to go down. Rereading Maund's book made me wonder that the Loop and Link ever got built at all, or that they were done in about 13 years from the first plans, when you read what difficulties the project faced and overcame.

Sounds fascinating. I was going to ask Mr Amazon for a copy but unfortunately it's out of print and there are no used ones going. Shall have to see if I can get it from a library (I'd imagine one of the Liverpool libraries will have one, I could task family to go and get it for me). I've got a copy of the 1970s book that talks about the construction of the Loop and Link somewhere, which is interesting (and a photo in it is why I know the station box was opened out) but doesn't really go into those aspects.

 

[Gareth]

I think they should seriously consider installing PEDs at Central once the new rolling stock is fully online.

The crowding issue is only going to get worse and the inevitable rebuild the station is going to need is years away and will probably be put off until the situation is critical.

 

[NoMorePacers]

I should know it's a city, given that the only reason I ever went there (shan't be doing so again) was because of a personal project to run 5K in every city in the UK over the last two years (now completed) which has had me all over the network!

Can’t be worse than Middlesbrough surely?

 

[Taunton]

The crowding issue is only going to get worse and the inevitable rebuild the station is going to need is years away and will probably be put off until the situation is critical.

Is the crowding not brought about by only running 3-car trains, where a generation ago they were 6-car at a higher frequency? This leads to bunfights at the doors, passengers only using half the platform, etc.

 

[Bletchleyite]

Is the crowding not brought about by only running 3-car trains, where a generation ago they were 6-car at a higher frequency? This leads to bunfights at the doors, passengers only using half the platform, etc.

Merseyrail has always run 6-car in the peaks only other than the Southport line in summer. What is defined as the "peaks" for that purpose has reduced in scope somewhat in line with demand (and as 50x come up for overhaul), though.

The Northern Line is at the highest frequency it has operated at in its current form. There have not been any cuts, and indeed the frequency has increased from the original early to mid 1980s 20 minute pattern to the present 15.

I have not seen "bunfights at the doors" on Merseyrail ever, that I can think of. I think you might have erroneously gone to Manchester?

 

[Bletchleyite]

Just had a thought on Central.

3-car trains stop, in both directions, pretty much alongside the part of the platform blocked by the stairways etc.

Would it not make more sense, moving signals/providing intermediate ones if required, to move the stopping position so a 3-car train stops mostly on the "clear" part of the platform at the other end? It's slightly narrower but because nothing other than the supporting columns break it up it has a wider useful area.

Alternatively, it could be done like Manchester Piccadilly P13/14 with the trains in each direction stopping at opposite ends, which would avoid the need to move any signals.

Thoughts?

 

[S&CLER]

Just had a thought on Central.

3-car trains stop, in both directions, pretty much alongside the part of the platform blocked by the stairways etc.

Would it not make more sense, moving signals/providing intermediate ones if required, to move the stopping position so a 3-car train stops mostly on the "clear" part of the platform at the other end? It's slightly narrower but because nothing other than the supporting columns break it up it has a wider useful area.

Alternatively, it could be done like Manchester Piccadilly P13/14 with the trains in each direction stopping at opposite ends, which would avoid the need to move any signals.

Thoughts?

It's my experience that down 3-car Southport trains do this already; the 3-car stop sign suggests it is standard practice. Not sure about down Kirkby/Ormskirk or Hunts Cross, but will pay attention next time I go to Central.

 

[Bletchleyite]

It's my experience that down 3-car Southport trains do this already; the 3-car stop sign suggests it is standard practice. Not sure about down Kirkby/Ormskirk or Hunts Cross, but will pay attention next time I go to Central.

It's quite possible the sign has been moved since I was last there, it's not often these days.

 

[jamesst]

The positioning was changed a good while back now for 3 cars at Central around the time the current wheelchair ramp was rolled out. It was found the space was non existent with the newer ramp for passengers to be boarded at the old stopping positions.