Incident as Guard precludes becoming driver?

[WombleGuard]

As the title suggests, if you'd had an operational incident (RTS on Red or unaccommodated door release for example), would this disqualify you from getting a driving job?

 

[skyhigh]

As the title suggests, if you'd had an operational incident (RTS on Red or unaccommodated door release for example), would this disqualify you from getting a driving job?

No.

 

[DM1994]

As the title suggests, if you'd had an operational incident (RTS on Red or unaccommodated door release for example), would this disqualify you from getting a driving job?

I'd like to think if you were on a plan from an incident you'd be ineligible to be promoted until you come off the plan. However I've known the complete opposite to happen, so I'm also going to say no!

 

[dctraindriver]

In company maybe yes, external no. Easily done. Have a rational as to why…..

I’ve edited as I said probably initially however I think that’s wrong.

 

[James185]

At my TOC if an incident of this nature occured, was reported correctly and there was no attempt to 'cover it up' then i don't believe an isolated incident would cause any issues. I've heard of this very scenario occuring. So no, it wouldn't disqualify you. This very well may be TOC dependent however.

 

[PupCuff]

It's not unknown that a poor safety record may preclude attempts at other jobs, but one incident doesn't make a poor safety record. If there was a blanket policy like that you'd a) encourage people not to report things so as to protect their chances of getting another job, and b) lose good candidates from the process, even the best of us are fallible if the planets all happen to line up one day.

Even if someone had a poor safety record as a conductor, I've never known a transfer of safety information request come in from a TOC when a current conductor goes driving at a different company.

 

[King Lazy]

I know of guards that have had incidents such as those mentioned and have moved onto driving. Specifically I know of one who released doors not at a platform.

As with all railway recruitment there will be a lot of factors at play. So a recent incident may not help someone’s chances but, for example. If there are 2 vacancies internally at a depot, 5 guards apply and 3 fail the tests but the guy with the incident passes then their incident may well no longer have as much bearing.

 

[BrummieBobby]

Does it perhaps depend on the nature of the incident?

I know of a signaller who put back on a train (Returned a signal to danger in error, resulting in a SPAR) but who had an otherwise perfect record. He applied for a higher grade box around 2 years later and was successful.

 

[Efini92]

I'd like to think if you were on a plan from an incident you'd be ineligible to be promoted until you come off the plan. However I've known the complete opposite to happen, so I'm also going to say no!

At most TOC’s guard- driver isn’t a line of promotion.

 

[Shunted]

Does it perhaps depend on the nature of the incident?

I know of a signaller who put back on a train (Returned a signal to danger in error, resulting in a SPAR) but who had an otherwise perfect record. He applied for a higher grade box around 2 years later and was successful.

Those damn shops crop up everywhere

 

[43066]

At most TOC’s guard- driver isn’t a line of promotion.

This! Driver is a completely different job. Promotion for a guard would be into guard management.

 

[Deepgreen]

Thread title - 'precludes'.

 

[Efini92]

This! Driver is a completely different job. Promotion for a guard would be into guard management.

At most places yes, however it is a line of promotion at Mersey rail.

 

[BrummieBobby]

Those damn shops crop up everywhere

SPAR- Signal Passed at Red (Formerly a Cat B, C or D SPAD) Only the former Cat A SPADs are still referred to as SPADS.

Also a convenient local shop

 

[43066]

At most places yes, however it is a line of promotion at Mersey rail.

But they’d presumably still have to apply and sit the driver selection tests etc. so I guess it couldn’t be considered a promotion in the way shed driver to mainline could be (which can be done on a time served basis because they’ve already passed selection).

I’m not sure I’d fancy my chances if I went around asking our guards when their “promotion to driver” is coming through .

 

[Efini92]

But they’d presumably still have to apply and sit the driver selection tests etc. so I guess it couldn’t be considered a promotion in the way shed driver to mainline could be (which can be done on a time served basis because they’ve already passed selection).

I’m not sure I’d fancy my chances if I went around asking our guards when their “promotion to driver” is coming through .

Yes of course, but it’s still their line of promotion. You have to be a guard to become a driver. They don’t recruit for trainees. Not sure if it will still be the same when their new trains come in.

 

[godfreycomplex]

Does it perhaps depend on the nature of the incident?

I know of a signaller who put back on a train (Returned a signal to danger in error, resulting in a SPAR) but who had an otherwise perfect record. He applied for a higher grade box around 2 years later and was successful.

This kind of thing happens quite frequently. Signalling, thankfully, hasn’t gone over to the punitive and discriminatory “clean licence” policy that train crew grades have (yet lol)

 

[GalaxyDog]

Depends on the specific TOC. My particular infamously spiteful TOC for a while decided that it was going to use every trick in the book to exclude its own guards from being successful in applying for driver's jobs. They prioritised freight drivers and off the street. This has been relaxed in the last twelve months or so, but has left a very bitter taste for those of us who applied during the dark period. One chap was rejected simply for being on a stage one MFA, for example. Another had had an incident two years prior and was rejected at the pre-testing stage because of it, so I would say "yes but depends on circs".

 

[Ashley Hill]

My TOC recruits drivers from guards as well as from other operators. If you’ve had an incident there is little to stop you applying for a drivers job. Any incident you’ve had will come to light at the selection stage,so if you’re asked about the incident at an interview be honest about it and state what measures you took to prevent it happening again.

 

[T T]

I think unfortunately this very much depends on the TOC.
I have heard of some who are more flexible, however speaking with recruiting managers here they have said they wouldn’t take an application any further from someone with an incident. Not would they accept other TOC drivers to transfer in if they didn’t have a clean record.
Unfortunately the issue is that there are so many thousands of people who apply for the driver grade they can pick and chose the ‘cleanest’.
So you could apply online and wouldn’t be stopped in doing so, however many may not take the process much further.
Maybe worth an email to HR to clarify prior to applying?

 

[GalaxyDog]

Incidents on record last for seven years I believe. After that, a record is considered clean. So worst case, bide time?

 

[PupCuff]

Incidents on record last for seven years I believe. After that, a record is considered clean. So worst case, bide time?

There's no standard time for how long an incident would stay on file. The longer its been since the last one the less relevant it becomes. Some TOCs may set their own limits of course and may apply GDPR data retention policies on some or all of the information.

Realistically, even where that isn't the case, the further back you go the less likely you are to be able to find reports for a given incident to actually review and understand the circumstances (misfiled, archived in a storage centre somewhere, never got sent over with a transfer of safety information, lost in an office move or computer system change etc) so even if you can see Jo Bloggs was involved in a given incident years and years ago the most info you'll be able to get on their involvement and the extent of their culpability would be a couple of paragraphs.

 

[GalaxyDog]

There's no standard time for how long an incident would stay on file. The longer its been since the last one the less relevant it becomes. Some TOCs may set their own limits of course and may apply GDPR data retention policies on some or all of the information.

Realistically, even where that isn't the case, the further back you go the less likely you are to be able to find reports for a given incident to actually review and understand the circumstances (misfiled, archived in a storage centre somewhere, never got sent over with a transfer of safety information, lost in an office move or computer system change etc) so even if you can see Jo Bloggs was involved in a given incident years and years ago the most info you'll be able to get on their involvement and the extent of their culpability would be a couple of paragraphs.

I've been able to see the extract of my company's internal safety record database, it was pretty indepth. My version of events, the formal version, action taken, culpable or exonerated, dates times headcodes etc. Quite a lot of info. A former H&S rep gave me the details about the seven year deal. That may be specific to my TOC.

 

[PupCuff]

I've been able to see the extract of my company's internal safety record database, it was pretty indepth. My version of events, the formal version, action taken, culpable or exonerated, dates times headcodes etc. Quite a lot of info. A former H&S rep gave me the details about the seven year deal. That may be specific to my TOC.

Very much a benefit of electronic systems rather than dealing with cupboards full of paper files.

Every company will have their own way of doing it, seven years seems reasonable for it to cease being taken into consideration.