Incident at crewe tonight - atw

[mullin]

Hello,

Now I'm not normally one to moan, but some thoughts from those in the industry would be nice.

Stood at Crewe station waiting for the 22:18 to Wigan, there was the 22:12 atw in the platform (6) to Shrewsbury. It pulled out the station at 22:11:54, ok 6 seconds early, that's not my problem / what I'm moaning about. A guy with 4 what I can only describe as green bin bags and a ruck sack ran down the stairs. Of course the doors had closed and stuff, but the conductor was hanging out the back window as it pulled off and shouted 'byeeeee' to him. Witnessed by a member of Virgin staff called Gordon stood at my side who said 'that is shocking'.

Although I do realise I'm probably going to get someone into trouble for this, would other people on here also report such a thing or is it common behaviour at night on the railways?

Hats off to the Virgin staff too - they went and looked for him at an office to see when the next train was for him!

Thoughts?

 

[Masboroughlad]

Not the best behaviour and I would complain probably, but not one to post on here??!

I used to work for XC 14 years ago. I remember being on New Street and being given a mouth full of abuse from a lady because the train had left on time!!! She was 30 seconds too late and would miss her flight. Excuse/reason - it has been late the last 2 times I used it!

 

[NightatLaira]

It's deplorable - I would report it.

I've had the same thing happen to me at Edinburgh Waverley with a 14:08 Cross Country departure which closed doors, locked and left about 90 seconds early at 14:06-and so many seconds. By 14:08 you couldn't even see the red tail lights in Calton Tunnel.

Both this incident and yours are outside the 30sec railway 'departure curfew' block.

It's such a shame this is happening more frequently now - Britain actually invented the 24hr clock because of the railways - now, they're trivialising its very meaning by being this trigger happy with the 'off' signal. We may as well go back the Georgian days of 'oh it'll probably leave about quarter past, so I'd be there on the hour...'

Shame...:roll:

 

[chiltern_chidg]

I was reading through this and thinking to myself, "hmmm, this sounds familiar"! I was running for a train during the day once and the guard saw me- smiled and just let the train pull out of the station when he could have been kind and let me jump on because, there was adequate time for me to just jump on quickly.

Yes, I can understand that trains need to depart on time and safely but, I think that some train guards get a kick out of annoying passengers. They probably relish the fact that making you miss your train disrupts the rest of your day!

Matthew

 

[mullin]

Not the best behaviour and I would complain probably, but not one to post on here??!

Well if there's enough 'report it' comments in the morning then I'll remove my post
Couldn't believe it when I heard him come out with that! To hang out the window and say nothing, yeah ok. not that!

 

[premier01]

Well if there's enough 'report it' comments in the morning then I'll remove my post
Couldn't believe it when I heard him come out with that! To hang out the window and say nothing, yeah ok. not that!

Why not report it on here-this happens much more often on buses-very annoying!

 

[chiltern_chidg]

Like I said, I think some people get a kick out of it .

Matthew

 

[SS4]

It is poor service but at least the customer could have studied the Doppler Effect

I wouldn't report it though, seems a bit OTT to do so.

 

[Yew]

It is poor service but at least the customer could have studied the Doppler Effect

I wouldn't report it though, seems a bit OTT to do so.

Or red shift, as the Red virgin train becomes ever so slightly redder...

 

[Flying Snail]

It's deplorable - I would report it.

I've had the same thing happen to me at Edinburgh Waverley with a 14:08 Cross Country departure which closed doors, locked and left about 90 seconds early at 14:06-and so many seconds. By 14:08 you couldn't even see the red tail lights in Calton Tunnel.

Both this incident and yours are outside the 30sec railway 'departure curfew' block.

It's such a shame this is happening more frequently now - Britain actually invented the 24hr clock because of the railways - now, they're trivialising its very meaning by being this trigger happy with the 'off' signal. We may as well go back the Georgian days of 'oh it'll probably leave about quarter past, so I'd be there on the hour...'

Shame...:roll:

Read the post again, train left 6 seconds early which is perfectly acceptable and the guard did nothing wrong in leaving the passenger behind.

Making fun of the passenger is un-necessary and pretty stupid whatever way you look at it but is hardly a capital crime, either way he had missed the train.

If I was platform staff there I'd be having words with the guard next time I saw him, winding someone up and leaving another staff member to deal with the consequences for no good reason is no way to behave.

 

[All Line Rover]

Hello,

Now I'm not normally one to moan, but some thoughts from those in the industry would be nice.

Stood at Crewe station waiting for the 22:18 to Wigan, there was the 22:12 atw in the platform (6) to Shrewsbury. It pulled out the station at 22:11:54, ok 6 seconds early, that's not my problem / what I'm moaning about. A guy with 4 what I can only describe as green bin bags and a ruck sack ran down the stairs.

I used the 22.12 service many a time during my ALR and the guard was very friendly, so I am slightly suprised. (Of course it could have been a different guard.)

Even though the customer involved would never have caught the train with 6 seconds to spare - as the train doors close at least 10 seconds before departure - I would be inclined to complain as treating a customer in such a way (particulary if it was done in a sarcastic manner) is unacceptable behaviour and should not be tolerated.

I would point out that there is also a 23.12 service from Crewe to Shrewsbury, so at least the customer wasn't stranded. If the guard had acted like that on the 23.12 service, leaving the customer stranded, it would have been far more serious!

 

[Intermodal]

I would point out that there is also a 23.12 service from Crewe to Shrewsbury, so at least the customer wasn't stranded. If the guard had acted like that on the 23.12 service, leaving the customer stranded, it would have been far more serious!

The customer would've been stranded regardless, so hardly more serious.

 

[O L Leigh]

All it needs is a quiet word with the guard, nothing more. It's hardly the end of the world.

O L Leigh

 

[premier01]

Well if there's enough 'report it' comments in the morning then I'll remove my post
Couldn't believe it when I heard him come out with that! To hang out the window and say nothing, yeah ok. not that!

I would say that it is unacceptable-there's nothing wrong in posting it on here but would suggest that u should leave it to the VT staff to take up as a staff issue-if it was u that it happened then could understand reporting it to ATW-appreciate that the issue is the behaviour of the guard not the fact that the train went 'early'-the doors are locked 30 seconds in advance and if the signals are clear why not leave early.

As for this happening on the 23.12 service I agree it is more serious as it's the last train and some discretion should be used-the customer wasn't stranded by missing the 22.12 service as there was another train-just that they were inconvenienced by having to wait 1 hour-was the bar still open

 

[SS4]

Personally in my job, and I was given the keys to lock the front doors at 20:00 and locked them at 19:59:30 while a customer was approaching and said something along those lines I'd be in the office facing a disciplinary. So personally I think it is a serious issue.

Yes, but your company doesn't put up posters saying doors close 30 seconds before closing time. Plus your company's building isn't going anywhere. The customer doesn't have a leg to stand on with regards to the timing (and the OP states this) but the gripe is with the guard's attitude.

To borrow from your analogy it's like telling a customer to f**k off at 20:00

 

[Clip]

Id be more annoyed with what he said not what he done. All doors now are generally locked before departure and the process starts early to enable this and a right time away.

Its not right to take the wee though.

 

[Asian Demon]

Simply a case of the attitude of the guard which seems uncalled for and childish to be honest. As for the departure, there isn't a leg to stand on because trains have to depart on time and can only do so safely by closing doors a couple of seconds prior to departure.

 

[ralphchadkirk]

Leaving 6 seconds early is neither here nor there really. But making fun of the passenger is silly and childish. A word with the guard not to do that again would suffice.

 

[Squaddie]

Leaving 6 seconds early is neither here nor there really. But making fun of the passenger is silly and childish. A word with the guard not to do that again would suffice.

And I think that's exactly the point: had the guard made some kind of apologetic gesture rather than a jeering one the situation would have been perceived completely differently. Just goes to show that there are as many rude people working on the railways as travelling on them.

 

[185]

Waved and said byeee? Amateur. I would have at least mooned.

No, seriously, I rarely left anyone behind - stuff control, PPM and the 30 second rule rubbish, decent guards will use their whistle and if someone looks like they are making an effort - they'll wait the extra few seconds. In cases where they were appearing at my (closed) just door before I'd given two on the buzzer, I'd see whether or not they were asking politely or shouting horridly before I'd consider opening the cab door back up.

Only people I enjoyed leaving behind were those who were utterly foul.

 

[js47604]

Whatever you say,posting on here is tantamount to reporting the guard as management read these forums so you've probably already reported him.Just hope some malicious manager hasn't got out of bed the wrong side and makes a disciplinary issue of a silly mistake.I'm more concerned with the whole theory of immediately reporting such things,which is why many railwaymen including myself have as little interaction with passengers as possible.

 

[Nym]

To borrow from your analogy it's like telling a customer to f**k off at 20:00

I did use to tell customers to F**k off at 1min before closing time, in fact, I stoped admiting customers 10mins before closing, since retail customers in airports are notoriously thick and take 30mins to look round and see what they want.


But seriously, be more professional please Mr ATW Guard...

And js47604

Being professional is part 1 of any training for any kind of role that interacts with customers. Shouting at somone who missed a service shouldn't be done. It's not a silly mistake shouting byeeeee at somone with an attitude.

 

[JamesM]

I have an issue with this 30 second door policy. To me it's very simple, just advertise every train as leaving one minute beforehand. So it's advertised as leaving at 22:11, at 22:11.00 you can reasonably close the doors and the thirty seconds you need to do all your checks can take place. The train then pulls away at 22:11:30.

I'm sure people will say, "yes but the railway runs like clockwork and you'll miss your track slot" well, not if every single train was running like that. The whole network simply runs thirty seconds ahead and customers get a timetable that accurately tells them when they need to be at the platform.

Or, if that's truly crazy, you simply enforce a UK wide decision that the time advertised (22:12) is the time the doors close. All TOCs are made to have a 30 second door policy and the driver leaves at 22:12:30, so again, the whole network simply runs 30 seconds later.

Ive not seen any Arriva Trains notices clearly explaining their 30 second door policy either.

A timetable that customers could understand. Crazy eh?

 

[Failed Unit]

I must admit this 30 second rule is annoying, there is a fine line. Have seen passengers arrive at the train before departure time but after the doors have shut. Not good customer service.

I have also seen gaurds on the Glasgow - Edinburgh line be a bit more friendly and wait for such a passenger to board resulting in a departure about 1 minute late. It is amazing how many people still chance there arm here! For me the 30 rules is fine on frequent services, but really if the working timetable says 1201 then the public should say 1200 to get over this back image. East Coast advertise closing the doors 2 minutes before departure. I don't know if that happens but that is a long time!

 

[PaulLothian]

I have also seen gaurds on the Glasgow - Edinburgh line be a bit more friendly and wait for such a passenger to board resulting in a departure about 1 minute late. It is amazing how many people still chance there arm here! ...

In my experience, most guards in Scotland seem to be very helpful, but there are the odd ones who seem happy to annoy passengers!

But it depends too on other factors - how tight paths and connections are elsewhere along the line, and whether the train is on time or running late.

 

[notadriver]

I remember as incident when I was a guard. Trains are despatched using CD/RA by platform staff. The station supervisor was also in attendance. An American couple made a last dash for the train (hourly express for the coast). Only made it as the doors closed. The woman screamed for the doors to be reopened as her husband had boarded. The supervisor told her it was too late. As I happened to be in the back cab I opened the drivers door and let her in. She was extremely grateful. Station supervisor told me he'd report me and demanded my name. As RA had been given I waved to him as we left the station

 

[blacknight]

Case is not water tight for prosecution so put black cap back in draw, leaving aside coming down stairs with 6 seconds to spare they ain't going to be on platform for departure time, as for saying bye for all we know the guard could have been say bye to platform staff.
Personally I blame introduction of digital clocks as old station clocks only had 2 hands so why the need for seconds to be displayed on digital clock.
What is more alarming is TOC's self dispatching at manned stations because they wont pay another TOC to do so, latest being Hull Trains who now self dispatch at manned stations run by East Coast costs before safety:roll:thats shocking.

 

[Failed Unit]

Case is not water tight for prosecution so put black cap back in draw, leaving aside coming down stairs with 6 seconds to spare they ain't going to be on platform for departure time, as for saying bye for all we know the guard could have been say bye to platform staff.
Personally I blame introduction of digital clocks as old station clocks only had 2 hands so why the need for seconds to be displayed on digital clock.

You should come to some of the stations in Scotland - Different times for Platform 1, 2 and the monitors themsleves

 

[philjo]

The FCC Service I was on from Potters Bar to WGC last night left 2 minutes early! Luckily the bus was on time last night otherwise I would have missed the train.

 

[blacknight]

I remember as incident when I was a guard. Trains are despatched using CD/RA by platform staff. The station supervisor was also in attendance. An American couple made a last dash for the train (hourly express for the coast). Only made it as the doors closed. The woman screamed for the doors to be reopened as her husband had boarded. The supervisor told her it was too late. As I happened to be in the back cab I opened the drivers door and let her in. She was extremely grateful. Station supervisor told me he'd report me and demanded my name. As RA had been given I waved to him as we left the station

Just out of interest were you guard in charge of the train or in direct contact with the guard, as you state RA had been given did you know if RA had been passed on to driver.
Would she or her husband have been so grateful if she had been dragged to her death as she fell from a moving train.
If you were not guard incharge of the train platform staff would be right to report you.