Incident at Dalston Junction.

[Samzino]

One also wonders why they didn’t say to her ‘the engineer is working on the lift now, could you possibly wait while we check how much longer he thinks it will take’?

They could have but the only part recorded is the climb up

 

[Horizon22]

I've been reading on other forums etc that this was a stunt by a campaigner. Perhaps the staff laughed because they were joining in the spirit of it, or perhaps they were right to mock it. Unless we were there we cannot tell, but I'm reserving judgement. Stunts to make a point (justified or not) have proliferated now that everyone has a movie camera in their phone and can place the result on social media.

I think the reality is somewhere in between. Yes she’s a disability campaigner and her profile makes that very clear. No real concerns there. This is a mix of a genuine concern (potential issues with lift advertisement & staff attitude) but also missing key context (start of journey and the alternatives offered by staff at origin and destination) and then filmed for maximum effect.

You’re right such videos have proliferated but I’m not sure that explains all of this. She said she didn’t want to wait for a taxi so it’s clear that option was given, but has framed it somewhat as TfL / Overground don’t care and have left her to fend for herself which also isn’t true.

 

[Samzino]

I think the reality is somewhere in between. Yes she’s a disability campaigner and her profile makes that very clear. No real concerns there. This is a mix of a genuine concern (potential issues with lift advertisement & staff attitude) but also missing key context (start of journey and the alternatives offered by staff at origin and destination) and then filmed for maximum effect.

You’re right such videos have proliferated but I’m not sure that explains all of this. She said she didn’t want to wait for a taxi so it’s clear that option was given, but has framed it somewhat as TfL / Overground don’t care and have left her to fend for herself which also isn’t true.

This. The staff flipped the coin more to the side by their totally unwarranted laughing.

 

[AlterEgo]

Isn't it likely that the staff were laughing with the lady at the irony of the lift being repaired by the time she'd reached the top of the stairs?

Did it look like the disabled woman was laughing?

 

[jfowkes]

Has anyone asked who was holding the phone that recorded it, and what their status is in this affair?

From her instagram post:
"Ps: before anyone moans I was filming, the way I was treated is the EXACT reason why I film in these situations. I was with a female colleague who couldn’t lift me up the stairs before anyone asks why she didn’t help!"

 

[Wolfie]

From her instagram post:
"Ps: before anyone moans I was filming, the way I was treated is the EXACT reason why I film in these situations. I was with a female colleague who couldn’t lift me up the stairs before anyone asks why she didn’t help!"

Interesting implication that a male colleague could have done so.....

 

[Horizon22]

Interesting implication that a male colleague could have done so.....

I think the point is the person doing the filing is meant to be “neutral”. I.e they’re just documenting the experience because on a day-to-day there wouldn’t be anyone extra to support the disabled passenger so why would it be different here.

 

[43066]

"Ps: before anyone moans I was filming, the way I was treated is the EXACT reason why I film in these situations.

Interesting she didn’t choose to film the bit where she was offered assistance that would have avoided the need to crawl up the stairs in the first place.

 

[The exile]

Wouldn’t have helped in a confined space like Dalston Jn - but is it time to reconsider what seems to be the current trend towards “footbridge and lifts” rather than ramps, which I assume has to do with the change in what is considered acceptable for a ramp? At least a ramp doesn’t suddenly break down.

 

[Mcv378]

I didn't know help was refused at Shoreditch, did she or did she not press the help point at Dalston?

 

[Samzino]

I didn't know help was refused at Shoreditch, did she or did she not press the help point at Dalston?

She didn't press the help point at Dalston

 

[357]

I didn't know help was refused at Shoreditch, did she or did she not press the help point at Dalston?

Shoreditch is level boarding so going to Dalston (also level boarding) help might not be needed.

We don't know for sure that the staff at Shoreditch were aware of where she was going.

 

[Peter Mugridge]

She didn't press the help point at Dalston

Could she have reached it in the first place?

 

[greatkingrat]

Could she have reached it in the first place?

Every help point I've ever seen has been within reach of someone in a wheelchair.

 

[Mcv378]

Could she have reached it in the first place?

Yes, they're set at a level that a wheelchair user can reach. Also she was traveling with someone able bodied so that person could have either pressed the help point or gone upstairs to ask the staff for advice.

 

[Horizon22]

Wouldn’t have helped in a confined space like Dalston Jn - but is it time to reconsider what seems to be the current trend towards “footbridge and lifts” rather than ramps, which I assume has to do with the change in what is considered acceptable for a ramp? At least a ramp doesn’t suddenly break down.

Suitable ramps have to be at a certain gradient to be legally compliant and there almost certainly isn’t the available footprint for this, especially at built up locations in London

 

[leytongabriel]

Id venture the idea that staff having not a great deal to do for so much of the time other than consult their mobile phones, makes people less proactive, less responsive as switching off is part of dealing with the sheer boredom of the job.

 

[island]

There have been incidents of a similar nature - often around London - of disability campaigners taking videos of issues with assistance which appear shocking but then it turns out have missed out almost the entirety of the beginning of the encounter or have cut out sections where staff have been present or offered support as you might expect. Then they’ve put themselves into deliberately difficult positions to prove a point where yes there was an inconvenience, but they’ve tried to frame this as discrimination.

I’m not going to sit here and suggest there aren’t genuine cases of disability assistance gone (very) wrong because there are but there are three sides to every story - their side, your side and the truth.

This is precisely what I was going to write.

 

[john prytherch]

I am just a little concerned by this. Over the weekend 2 - 5 February I stayed at the Premier inn opposite Dalston Junction and a short way to the right, across the road. I am not disabled but am a very overweight barrel of a man, with a top speed only a little above the top speed of a woodlouse.

Each morning 3 - 5 February I bought a Travelcard at Dalston Junction although on some days I used it as much on the buses as the trains. I was amused, perhaps very slightly annoyed, that although the ticket office was manned, mostly by two people I think, a notice on its window requested passengers to buy tickets from a machine rather than from the office. I managed to use the machine although it argued with me until a banknote was its preferred way round and up.

It was annoying that the lift was not working, but I managed the 36 (I think) steps down to platform level. On the Saturday and Sunday, only the bay platforms were in use.

On the Sunday evening, I managed to heave myself slowly up the 36 steps, by the handrails. A charming member of staff was doing his best to be helpful, although nothing he could have done, short of changing the stairs into an escalator, would have helped.

On the Monday, the through lines were working again so I got a DC train to Highbury & Islington, where the lift was not working so I doubled back on the same train to Canonbury, where the lifts were working, enabling me to change onto an AC train towards Willesden Junction.

 

[Wolfie]

I am just a little concerned by this. Over the weekend 2 - 5 February I stayed at the Premier inn opposite Dalston Junction and a short way to the right, across the road. I am not disabled but am a very overweight barrel of a man, with a top speed only a little above the top speed of a woodlouse.

Each morning 3 - 5 February I bought a Travelcard at Dalston Junction although on some days I used it as much on the buses as the trains. I was amused, perhaps very slightly annoyed, that although the ticket office was manned, mostly by two people I think, a notice on its window requested passengers to buy tickets from a machine rather than from the office. I managed to use the machine although it argued with me until a banknote was its preferred way round and up.

It was annoying that the lift was not working, but I managed the 36 (I think) steps down to platform level. On the Saturday and Sunday, only the bay platforms were in use.

On the Sunday evening, I managed to heave myself slowly up the 36 steps, by the handrails. A charming member of staff was doing his best to be helpful, although nothing he could have done, short of changing the stairs into an escalator, would have helped.

On the Monday, the through lines were working again so I got a DC train to Highbury & Islington, where the lift was not working so I doubled back on the same train to Canonbury, where the lifts were working, enabling me to change onto an AC train towards Willesden Junction.

This, given that l have lived close to Canonbury station for over 20 years and in Islington since 1990, is definitely my neck of the woods. The situation which you describe in your second para is courtesy of Boris Johnson making a commitment that Overground stations would be staffed during opening hours. They generally are but the staff have the least possible qualifications, are certainly not trained as booking clerks, and spend most of their time behind the ticket office safety glass. A physical presence? Yes. A useful one? Hmmmm well perhaps they increase security somewhat.

 

[357]

courtesy of Boris Johnson

It was actually Ken, but there was a change of mayor in about 2008 I believe, thus when extensions opened Boris was there to take the credit.

 

[styles]

Then, they would only get the taxi between stations (it would have been far more helpful in this case to get it to the woman's hotel) and additionally the waiting time was never less than an hour despite being in London with a taxi rank outside the station. Once it was three hours.

I've got to admit, even as somebody who doesn't use a wheelchair, I wish this would be considered when delays happen. I've had an Avanti-provided taxi from Carlisle to Inverkeithing. But actually I was going slightly west of Dunfermline, and it would've been the same amount of time to take me to my actual destination (in fact around 5 minutes quicker), rather than get me to Inverkeithing so late that the buses to my actual destination have stopped.

Obviously you have to draw the line somewhere with these things, but it does give the impression of doing the bare minimum required rather than actually trying to help a customer out when things have gone wrong.

 

[Business Bob]

The situation which you describe in your second para is courtesy of Boris Johnson making a commitment that Overground stations would be staffed during opening hours. They generally are but the staff have the least possible qualifications, are certainly not trained as booking clerks, and spend most of their time behind the ticket office safety glass. A physical presence? Yes. A useful one? Hmmmm well perhaps they increase security somewhat.

You are not far off the mark here. The majority of Overground station staff you see are actually agency staff, so quality is mostly lacking with bare minimum training above an induction. Stations staffed from first to last train which is at some stations 1 person sat in the office. Had it in numerous times just watching them glued to their phones oblivious to all and everything around them, even on match days with packed platforms.

MIPs do get a raw deal sometimes, I've had a delay to get one off as no staff turned up that other passengers took it upon themselves to get the ramp and off load them.

 

[Wolfie]

It was actually Ken, but there was a change of mayor in about 2008 I believe, thus when extensions opened Boris was there to take the credit.

I knew that the extensions were agreed during the Livingston era. I thought that it was Johnson who committed to stations being staffed while open but l may be wrong.

 

[357]

I knew that the extensions were agreed during the Livingston era. I thought that it was Johnson who committed to stations being staffed while open but l may be wrong.

When LOROL took over from Silverlink the stations were all staffed from day one IIRC

 

[Mcv378]

Just out of interest, is Emerson Park staffed all day?

 

[Mcr Warrior]

Just out of interest, is Emerson Park staffed all day?

Not sure, but there is ramp access from street level to/from the single platform at Emerson Park, isn't there?

 

[alholmes]

Just out of interest, is Emerson Park staffed all day?

I’ve not travelled on that line recently, but it used to be the case that a member of staff would travel on the train between Romford and Emerson Park, then stay at Emerson Park station until the train returned, reboarding it to travel back to Romford.

 

[357]

I’ve not travelled on that line recently, but it used to be the case that a member of staff would travel on the train between Romford and Emerson Park, then stay at Emerson Park station until the train returned, reboarding it to travel back to Romford.

Yes. That was "temporary" as there were no staff facilities at Emerson Park. Now they have a hut, the station is properly manned.

A derogation needed to be agreed with TfL for it.

 

[swt_passenger]

Yes. That was "temporary" as there were no staff facilities at Emerson Park. Now they have a hut, the station is properly manned.

A degradation needed to be agreed with TfL for it.

Is that an autocorrect of “derogation”