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Incorrect Unpaid Fare

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jumble

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Thank you for your update. I hope that does resolve the issue for you both.

You might want to think very carefully before making any request for further information about the identity of the culprit. It is possible that it is someone your daughter knows very well (perhaps even another family member?). Once known that sort of information can never be unknown.

Also, it is possible that LNER might ask your daughter if she can identify them from the bodycam images, which may lead to their arrest and charges of them giving a false name and address or even the very serious charge of attempting to pervert the course of justice.

I'm not saying you shouldn't ask: please just be aware of possible consequences if
I agree.
The OP should just send in the photo ID and forget about it.
(Edit Tallguy just beat me to it)
I very much doubt that LNER will tell you in any case as I suspect that they will take the position that disclosing the identity breaches GDPR
 
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DonnyDad

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It is highly unlike.y that the TOC will give you the details of the person who impersonated your daughter due to data protection. I can see how your daughter may be asked to look at a CCTV image but that request may well come from the Police, rather than the TOC.
Agreed, they may ask if she can identify the image but pretty sure they wouldn't give any more than that.

I agree.
The OP should just send in the photo ID and forget about it.
I very much doubt that LNER will tell you in any case as I suspect that they will take the position that disclosing the identity breaches GDPR
Yeah I'd be surprised if they told us.
 

Tallguy

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I think that is highly unlikely.
I disagree. Someone has given false details who has some knowledge either by identify theft or otherwise of the OP’s daughter. If the matter is passed to the Police (giving false details is an offence) then the Police may well ask for assistance in identifying the culprit by reviewing the available photo evidence With the OP’s daughter to try and secure an identification. Should this scenario arise and the OP’s daughter refuse to do-operate by looking at the image then this may well raise questions as to if the fraud was a colluded act.
 

Haywain

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If the matter is passed to the Police (giving false details is an offence) then the Police may well ask for assistance in identifying the culpri
The police might do, but I was referring to the suggestion that LNER may ask for such help. However, I also think it is highly unlikely that the matter will be passed to the police for investigation.
 

Tallguy

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The police might do, but I was referring to the suggestion that LNER may ask for such help. However, I also think it is highly unlikely that the matter will be passed to the police for investigation.
I agree it is unlikely That LNER will ask for such help. But if the matter is passed to the Police I wouldn’t be surprised if they did ask for the images to be viewed.
 

DonnyDad

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UPDATE: LNER have responded today to say they have eliminated my daughter from their enquiries after comparing the photographic evidence! Predictably, they declined our request to see the footage (yes, we wanted to know! :)). But, a really good ending for us and very pleased with that result. LNER themselves were very understanding and the bodycam footage has played a big part here.

So thanks to everyone here who responded - it really helped us. Many many thanks.
 

Gloster

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Thanks for the update. It is always useful for the experts to know what happened, but so often nothing is ever heard of the outcome. I am glad that it seems to have turned out well.
 

talltim

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The the GDPR thing is a bit strange. If you had submitted a request for all data about you held before you said it wasn’t you, would they have provided the video? After all, they thought it was you.
 

221129

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The the GDPR thing is a bit strange. If you had submitted a request for all data about you held before you said it wasn’t you, would they have provided the video? After all, they thought it was you.
Irrelevant, as once the person stated it wasn't them then that obviously couldn't be shared with them.
 

WesternLancer

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Irrelevant, as once the person stated it wasn't them then that obviously couldn't be shared with them.
Only after they stated that, and the post suggested had they communicated in a different order with LNER, they might have got the picture.
ie LNER to OP: You were on our train without a valid ticket
OP to LNER: please show me the image you hold of me
OP to LNER (after viewing image): that's not me, this is what I look like here is a copy of my passport image

so relevant to the point originally being made that this relates to, which was the OP wanting to know if they (well the child) knew the person impersonating them - hence wondering about a bodycam image. My suspicion was this was highly likely given the accused lived in student accommodation IIRC, where it is easy to give your address as you will be aware of it and the name of one of the couple of hundred other people who live there many of the names you will know from eg communal post boxes, social media groups etc.

But obv as you say once they had said "I was not on that train, it can't be me" LNER would not be releasing the image.
 

Haywain

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If they weren’t there they wouldn’t ask for the image.
 

ta-toget

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Only after they stated that, and the post suggested had they communicated in a different order with LNER, they might have got the picture.
ie LNER to OP: You were on our train without a valid ticket
OP to LNER: please show me the image you hold of me
OP to LNER (after viewing image): that's not me, this is what I look like here is a copy of my passport image

so relevant to the point originally being made that this relates to, which was the OP wanting to know if they (well the child) knew the person impersonating them - hence wondering about a bodycam image. My suspicion was this was highly likely given the accused lived in student accommodation IIRC, where it is easy to give your address as you will be aware of it and the name of one of the couple of hundred other people who live there many of the names you will know from eg communal post boxes, social media groups etc.

But obv as you say once they had said "I was not on that train, it can't be me" LNER would not be releasing the image.
Also, they might ask for photo ID before releasing the image, so then you wouldn't receive it if they cross reference it. To be honest, I'd hope they would ask for ID, otherwise they'll have released someone else's personal data. I've had companies do that before (not asking for any image of myself, mind, just data that's presumably fairly harmless, though I'll never know as I couldn't be bothered scanning my ID and sending it through).
If they weren’t there they wouldn’t ask for the image.
They might if they thought it would help them to find out who was there, if they'd thought about it beforehand, and realised it was likely to be someone they knew.
 

Haywain

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They might if they thought it would help them to find out who was there, if they'd thought about it beforehand, and realised it was likely to be someone they knew.
I suspect that would be pushing the legality of a subject access request (or whatever such a request is called), and infringing someone’s privacy.
 

philthetube

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two questions:

Is a picture taken on a station personal data, given that anyone can take a pic in that location, and could the police show the pic to the op if they got involved?
 

WesternLancer

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Also, they might ask for photo ID before releasing the image, so then you wouldn't receive it if they cross reference it. To be honest, I'd hope they would ask for ID, otherwise they'll have released someone else's personal data. I've had companies do that before (not asking for any image of myself, mind, just data that's presumably fairly harmless, though I'll never know as I couldn't be bothered scanning my ID and sending it through).

They might if they thought it would help them to find out who was there, if they'd thought about it beforehand, and realised it was likely to be someone they knew.
Yes, good points. And on your 2nd observation (who was there) I recall up thread this was precisely what the OP thought. I suspect the OP regarded the impersonator as having made their daughter a victim (which they did, if only of wasting daughter's time extracting themsleves from the situation) and may have wanted to report them - to the police presumably (eg "I know person A, they go round evading fares and then giving false details, this is who they are and how to find them, please take action")
 

cakefiend

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two questions:

Is a picture taken on a station personal data, given that anyone can take a pic in that location, and could the police show the pic to the op if they got involved?
Yes, a picture of somebody is personal information. Even if (especially so) that person has claimed to be you.
 

talltim

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My point was, the TOC are claiming the photo/CCTV was of the recipient of the letter. If they believe that then they should send a copy. If they don’t believe it why are they sending the letter?
 

zwk500

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My point was, the TOC are claiming the photo/CCTV was of the recipient of the letter. If they believe that then they should send a copy. If they don’t believe it why are they sending the letter?
They believe, but can't confirm. You wouldn't send a bank account number and sort code to somebody and ask them to confirm that it's theirs. Asking for the OP to provide their own ID and then cross-referencing allows the TOC to verify the data without risking unauthorised distribution, which the Information commissioner takes a very dim view on.
 

Haywain

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My point was, the TOC are claiming the photo/CCTV was of the recipient of the letter. If they believe that then they should send a copy. If they don’t believe it why are they sending the letter?
But why would someone who wasn't there be requesting CCTV footage *of themself*, where the request will require them to specifically state where they were and when? If it's not them they are not entitled to it, so they can't have it both ways.
 

Snow1964

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I agree.
The OP should just send in the photo ID and forget about it.
(Edit Tallguy just beat me to it)
I very much doubt that LNER will tell you in any case as I suspect that they will take the position that disclosing the identity breaches GDPR

Technically LNER might have breached GDPR by misusing your daughters personal details, as they didn’t check the data they had matched your daughter. But it’s more what they do now they are aware with the data they hold.

In addition to any letter confirming case has been dropped, they really ought to send a confirmation letter from their authorised data manager (not the clerk dealing with this) that your daughters personal details incorrectly collected have been removed from their database. Basically LNER have to comply with GDPR rules as well.
 

Haywain

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LNER might have breached GDPR by misusing your daughters personal details, as they didn’t check the data they had matched your daughter.
That's a ridiculous statement. Writing to the person whose details have been given cannot be a breach of GDPR and is the only means they have of checking the details.
 

Snow1964

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That's a ridiculous statement. Writing to the person whose details have been given cannot be a breach of GDPR and is the only means they have of checking the details.

Writing is ok to query it, but if they have entered it onto a computer database on assumption it is good, then they discover it is wrong, they have an obligation to remove all the incorrect information. They should also inform anyone who passed on the incorrect personal information to them that their database needs correcting.

As I said initially using the incorrect info is not the problem (as don’t know at that stage it’s wrong), but once the know it is incorrect they cannot just leave personal information wrong and still be in compliance with GDPR
 

talltim

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But why would someone who wasn't there be requesting CCTV footage *of themself*, where the request will require them to specifically state where they were and when? If it's not them they are not entitled to it, so they can't have it both ways.
If someone claimed to have CCTV of you doing something naughty, wouldn’t you want to see it?
 

Haywain

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If someone claimed to have CCTV of you doing something naughty, wouldn’t you want to see it?
Not if it wasn’t me. I would simply say that a I wasn’t there it could not have been me. And in the case that started this thread no-one was claiming to have CCTV footage.
 

Haywain

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LNER said that the real culprit has been captured on bodycam. (see post #27)
Fair enough, but that was revealed after the ‘accused’ had stated they weren’t there and established no right to request the footage. They couldn’t know about it any sooner because, as established, they weren’t there.
 
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