Independent train driver assessments

[Gaz K]

Hi all, having read some of the other threads I know there are mixed opinions on this subject and it's usefulness when it comes to becoming a train driver. Having said that it is a path that I'm looking into taking so that I might become a driver. I currently work for a TOC as a guard but wish to progress.
Can anybody provide me with any up to date information as to companies that the tests can be carried out with, I have tried researching it myself but information is a bit sketchy.
Cheers peeps

 

[Termak]

DB does, I made an enquiry last year.

 

[RBSN]

As above; DB do. But it really is a waste of your money.

Seriously I wouldn’t bother.

 

[Jaydon Jay]

I really don’t understand why people are always saying “it’s a waiste of time” why the negativity? I paid for my private assessments with DB Schenker November last year and have now been offered a trainee train driver position with my local TOC last month. I believe it shows the toc how determined you are about getting into the train industry. You wanted the position so much you put your hand into your own pocket and paid for the assessments yourself but it’s really your choice mate all I know is paying for private assessments worked myself.

 

[Atishyou]

I really don’t understand why people are always saying “it’s a waiste of time” why the negativity? I paid for my private assessments with DB Schenker November last year and have now been offered a trainee train driver position with my local TOC last month. I believe it shows the toc how determined you are about getting into the train industry. You wanted the position so much you put your hand into your own pocket and paid for the assessments yourself but it’s really your choice mate all I know is paying for private assessments worked myself.

Dangerous path though, before you know it, applicants will be required to have taken and paid for the assessments before being allowed to apply for the vacancies.

 

[Gaz K]

I really don’t understand why people are always saying “it’s a waiste of time” why the negativity? I paid for my private assessments with DB Schenker November last year and have now been offered a trainee train driver position with my local TOC last month. I believe it shows the toc how determined you are about getting into the train industry. You wanted the position so much you put your hand into your own pocket and paid for the assessments yourself but it’s really your choice mate all I know is paying for private assessments worked myself.

Hi Jaydon, who did you do yours with? Could you provide me with some contact info? Thanks

 

[choochoochoo]

I really don’t understand why people are always saying “it’s a waiste of time” why the negativity? I paid for my private assessments with DB Schenker November last year and have now been offered a trainee train driver position with my local TOC last month. I believe it shows the toc how determined you are about getting into the train industry. You wanted the position so much you put your hand into your own pocket and paid for the assessments yourself but it’s really your choice mate all I know is paying for private assessments worked myself.

Where does it stop ! Pay for your assessments today and then how long before you're expected to pay for your training.

Don't say it won't happen, just look at pilots in the aviation world. This is why many pilots are now becoming drivers.

 

[RBSN]

I really don’t understand why people are always saying “it’s a waiste of time” why the negativity? I paid for my private assessments with DB Schenker November last year and have now been offered a trainee train driver position with my local TOC last month. I believe it shows the toc how determined you are about getting into the train industry. You wanted the position so much you put your hand into your own pocket and paid for the assessments yourself but it’s really your choice mate all I know is paying for private assessments worked myself.

It’s not being negative.

Pre-interview (getting past the ‘paper-sift’) is all about your application and the information within it, having passed your psychmetric tests or not doesn’t come in to it at that point.

So paying to do the tests is a financial risk and of course there are no guarantees that you will pass either way.

Having a pass mark but a bad application will not get you through. Not saying the OP will have a bad application but that’s how it works now.

 

[Tom Quinne]

Dangerous path though, before you know it, applicants will be required to have taken and paid for the assessments before being allowed to apply for the vacancies.

Just like the Police, you have to pay for your foundation degree before even applying.

 

[Atishyou]

Just like the Police, you have to pay for your foundation degree before even applying.

So that justifies people requiring to pay for the assessments themselves? If you say so.

The degree for the police can be in anything, which doesn't restrict you going into other fields. Taking the train driving assessments and paying for them yourself won't help you get a job elsewhere.

 

[Stigy]

I agree re the sift. It’s handy to have all the assessments passed, but the papersift can be the hardest part. For somebody such as the OP who currently works for a TOC as a Conductor, I’d personally wait until my TOC is recruiting and simply apply, making sure my application is up to scratch. If you can get past the sift, you might as well save your money! At best you could drop. Recruiting TOC or FOC an email, maybe asking another question, but slyly include in the email somewhere that you’ve passed all the assessments required to become a trainee, that way you’re more saleable as a candidate as you don’t need to take the assessments as the cost of the TOC. It’s risky though.

As a Guard or Conductor already, you’re in one of the best positions to move on to driving, so I definitely wouldn’t pay if in your shoes.

 

[RBSN]

That’s something completely different which I’m sure you know if you’re on the Railway

 

[JOHNR150]

This is why many pilots are now becoming drivers.

Do you know how much effort it takes to get an ATPL and of course the money plus the skill? It takes much more than a group bourdon test and 12 months training. With 15 years experience it is possible to be earning the equivalent of £150k plus as a captain. Not to mention many parts of the world that offer the chance to earn high salaries tax free. Yes of course many people prefer train driving than that.....

 

[Stigy]

So that justifies people requiring to pay for the assessments themselves? If you say so.

The degree for the police can be in anything, which doesn't restrict you going into other fields. Taking the train driving assessments and paying for them yourself won't help you get a job elsewhere.

I think Tom is referring to the course some forces make candidates take at their own cost, prior to applying. This is a degree of sorts, in policing knowledge, and doesn’t guarantee a candidate a job. This ‘degree’ lasts three years and costs about £1,200 and to be honest is a waste of time hence why most forces are going back to the old way of competency based applications. Sometimes.

 

[Stigy]

That’s something completely different which I’m sure you know if you’re on the Railway

Was that post in reply to me? If you, I’m afraid you’ll have to elaborate because I’m lost

 

[choochoochoo]

Do you know how much effort it takes to get an ATPL and of course the money plus the skill? It takes much more than a group bourdon test and 12 months training. With 15 years experience it is possible to be earning the equivalent of £150k plus as a captain. Not to mention many parts of the world that offer the chance to earn high salaries tax free. Yes of course many people prefer train driving than that.....

My point exactly. There was a time when pilots didn't have to pay for their flight training.

Just saying paying for applications and training is a slippery slope towards degraded terms and conditions for all in the profession in the future.

 

[Stigy]

Do you know how much effort it takes to get an ATPL and of course the money plus the skill? It takes much more than a group bourdon test and 12 months training. With 15 years experience it is possible to be earning the equivalent of £150k plus as a captain. Not to mention many parts of the world that offer the chance to earn high salaries tax free. Yes of course many people prefer train driving than that.....

Train Driving is far from an easy job to get in to, but I’d imagine it’s a damnsite easier than becoming an airline pilot after remortgaging the house? I can see why it appeals more to be honest. The money is great, you get one of the best views from your office, and at the moment, you don’t have to pay to train!

 

[rosie]

Dangerous path though, before you know it, applicants will be required to have taken and paid for the assessments before being allowed to apply for the vacancies.

You make a good point but it’s happening in a lot of places now. My brother is a pilot and it’s pretty much become a rich kids occupation since he joined (he isn’t) where parents are signing bonds for the best part of 150-200k for their kids to get trained up.

If the railway were to do it and in effec ask for people to sign a bond to cover training costs, you could bet there will still be hundreds and hundreds or applicants.

 

[RBSN]

To earn big money as a pilot you need to be working for one of the big airlines, which I believe is very hard to get as there are so many pilots going for the jobs.

You’ve got a slightler better chance becoming a train driver for LNER and earning £70k a year and not owing 150K for your training.

I know which I’d rather do

 

[JOHNR150]

It is possible to have an ATPL frozen for £65k. Well worth the effort in the long run. Some of the tax free salaries for first officers in the Gulf are more than £80k tax free with all living costs paid for and it is possible to be earning that with minimal flying past the ATPL. £70k driving a train is nothing compared the earning potential over a 30 year flying career. The training more than pays for itself and pilots have a much higher social status.

 

[Caperhino]

It is possible to have an ATPL frozen for £65k. Well worth the effort in the long run. Some of the tax free salaries for first officers in the Gulf are more than £80k tax free with all living costs paid for and it is possible to be earning that with minimal flying past the ATPL. £70k driving a train is nothing compared the earning potential over a 30 year flying career. The training more than pays for itself and pilots have a much higher social status.

Johnr150, you are very much mistaken. Pilots no longer enjoy any so called "high status" and I speak having spent 15 years in the industry. Too many victims are still paying to fly and the low cost airlines exploit the desperate. You should put your rose tinted specs away. Three low cost airlines have gone bust over the last 3 weeks so there will always be more experienced pilots chasing too few jobs.

 

[tiptoptaff]

It is possible to have an ATPL frozen for £65k. Well worth the effort in the long run. Some of the tax free salaries for first officers in the Gulf are more than £80k tax free with all living costs paid for and it is possible to be earning that with minimal flying past the ATPL. £70k driving a train is nothing compared the earning potential over a 30 year flying career. The training more than pays for itself and pilots have a much higher social status.

Fantasy land.

There was an indepth thread and discussion on this, Pilot V Driver, not so long back and most of the pilots who commented on that thread all said it wasn't what it used to be and it is very hard to earn megabucks.

 

[MostlyHarmless]

It is possible to have an ATPL frozen for £65k. Well worth the effort in the long run. Some of the tax free salaries for first officers in the Gulf are more than £80k tax free with all living costs paid for and it is possible to be earning that with minimal flying past the ATPL. £70k driving a train is nothing compared the earning potential over a 30 year flying career. The training more than pays for itself and pilots have a much higher social status.

I was chatting to an experienced BA pilot in their lounge at T5 on Sunday about this, and he says the job is nothing like it used to be in terms of pay and conditions for new pilots. The competition for the best jobs is very fierce and most pilots never get anywhere near 150K and with the low cost airlines, you're doing well if you get half that. And I'm not sure what the social status of a job has to do with anything!

 

[tiptoptaff]

And I'm not sure what the social status of a job has to do with anything!

Possibly a pilot who's not earning anywhere near what they're saying they can earn and are upset drivers are earning as much if not more?? But in a "working class" low society job like a train driver, not a middle England "middle class " job like a Pilot

 

[JOHNR150]

Not sure what is fantasy land my ATPL cost £92k it can be done for £65k it is possible although for that money it will be frozen. I work for a well known carrier although not a captain and it is not BA and whilst I do not want to mention the specific figure it is more than £70k.

 

[tiptoptaff]

So I was right, a Pilot who's disgruntled we in the railway earn so much, but only being of a very low social status, compared to you?

 

[MostlyHarmless]

Not sure what is fantasy land my ATPL cost £92k it can be done for £65k it is possible although for that money it will be frozen. I work for a well known carrier although not a captain and it is not BA and whilst I do not want to mention the specific figure it is more than £70k.

All I can say is that from speaking to pilots and others who work in the industry the consensus seems to be that the job isn't what it once was, and that the advent of the low cost airlines has been a huge factor in this. Its been replicated in the terms and conditions of cabin crew too (my other half works for BA) in what seems to be a race to the bottom.

 

[Set_DRA]

As a pilot who is now a Driver, and has been for 3 years now, I can honestly say I’m far better off as a driver.

Better T&Cs, Pay, and a Union that has power.

Also I’d like to add that we now have FIVE ex pilots at my depot alone!

 

[RBSN]

Fantasy land.

Not wanting to stir the pot but I have to agree here.

 

[JOHNR150]

I think £92k outlay is not bad at all for a long career. I am 26 and been flying since 15 it has always been there. Whilst earning over £70k in the UK been offered a tax free position with a well known gulf carrier so will likely make the move. It works out over £9k per month tax free with living expenses mainly covered including education fees if needed. Try beating that on the railways....