Industrial action in the North

[Oswyntail]

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-26937967

Northern Rail Leeds and Newcastle depot staff to hold second strike

Rail maintenance workers at depots in Leeds and Newcastle are to hold a six-day strike in a dispute over plans to regrade their jobs.

Staff at Northern Rail's depots at Neville Hill and Heaton will stop work at 18:59 BST on Thursday 10 April until 18:58 BST on Wednesday 16 April.

The strike, by 42 members of the Rail, Maritime and Transport (RMT) union, follows a 48-hour walkout in February.

Northern Rail said there would be "no disruption" to normal services.

'Stubborn refusal'

The strike will be held alongside a continuing overtime ban at the two depots, the RMT said.

RMT acting general secretary Mick Cash said Northern Rail had "failed to recognise the multi-skills and hard work this group of maintenance depot drivers bring to the Northern Rail operation".

The duties carried out by RMT members were "complex and demanding" and were becoming more so, said Mr Cash.

"This dispute has been forced on us by the management's continuing and stubborn refusal to take the real nature of these jobs into account through the regrading process," he added.

Adrian Thompson, HR director for Northern Rail, said the dispute was "not of our making".

"The RMT is yet again making unrealistic and unsubstantiated demands without any reasoning.

"We have offered practical solutions to help resolve this unnecessary dispute but the RMT has flatly dismissed these.

"We would ask the RMT to call off this action and agree to discuss the solutions already offered."

The RMT said it "remained available for talks".

Any thoughts on what this is about? And how confident are we that there will be no disruption?

 

[Tim R-T-C]

Basically the 'maintenance depot drivers' want this role to be recognised as a more skilled position and graded higher in terms of pay and conditions.

 

[DownSouth]

Will it impact on the pensioners protesting against the withdrawal of the free train perk from their bus passes?

 

[carriageline]

Will it affect our beloved MDD Bevridges? I seem to remember him not being in a union though.

 

[Silv1983]

They want more pay for filling the trains full of diesel and water and 'not' doing full preps properly. I hope Northern don't give in...

 

[Beveridges]

Yes your correct about this strike action being held by Maintenance Depot Drivers. We are currently paid half way between a Semi Skilled Fitter and a Fitter. The MDD's at Heaton believe this does not reflect the skill and responsibility in this role, and its generally what MDDs think at all other depots though in regards to the strike action it is only Heaton who are kicking off about it.

They want more pay for filling the trains full of diesel and water and 'not' doing full preps properly. I hope Northern don't give in

I'm on moderation at the moment so I'll be gentle. I was hoping our passenger-driving colleges would have given more support. Instead? 'I hope Northern don't give in' ? Would you be saying the same if it was main line drivers striking for more money ?

 

[WatcherZero]

Also article isnt entirely clear but they arent strikeing because their jobs are being regraded, they are striking because a regrading excercise failed to increase their grade. They want to be paid more for depot shunting.

 

[carriageline]

Yes your correct about this strike action being held by Maintenance Depot Drivers. We are currently paid half way between a Semi Skilled Fitter and a Fitter. The MDD's at Heaton believe this does not reflect the skill and responsibility in this role, and its generally what MDDs think at all other depots though in regards to the strike action it is only Heaton who are kicking off about it.


I'm on moderation at the moment so I'll be gentle. I was hoping our passenger-driving colleges would have given more support. Instead? 'I hope Northern don't give in' ? Would you be saying the same if it was main line drivers striking for more money ?

Are you in the RMT? For some bizarre reason I seem to remember your not, probably wrong!!

"I hope northern don't give in" is just a stupid trolling comment, but at the same time, it's not really a case of "I think I deserve £xxxxxx, pay it or we don't work", unless it can be proven you deserve more money, ie similar roles in other companies pay more, or comparing it to other roles in the company. Who decides if your worth more money?

NB: I don't know how much your paid, nor the fitters you referenced!

That's just my opinion anyway, I personally support all grades in our industry, but at the same time it doesn't help the public perception of "we strike when we want to be paid more"

 

[Beveridges]

Also article isnt entirely clear but they arent strikeing because their jobs are being regraded, they are striking because a regrading excercise failed to increase their grade. They want to be paid more for depot shunting.

Not just shunting but a 'range of complex duties' which is what MDD Driving is all about.

If this 6 day strike goes ahead I reckon it will almost shut down the two biggest northern depots in the east. Only a handful of DTMs have MDD competency so I suspect a very limited amount of cover would come from them.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

Are you in the RMT? For some bizarre reason I seem to remember your not, probably wrong!!

I used to be the type who only joined the Union when I needed them & left when I didn't but I gave that up a few years ago and am now a member permanently.

 

[WatcherZero]

Strike suspended

 

[Beveridges]

Who gave in ?

 

[PermitToTravel]

Not just shunting but a 'range of complex duties' which is what MDD Driving is all about.

If this 6 day strike goes ahead I reckon it will almost shut down the two biggest northern depots in the east. Only a handful of DTMs have MDD competency so I suspect a very limited amount of cover would come from them.

Can regular drivers / regular driver managers do MDD work?

 

[Silv1983]

Are you in the RMT? For some bizarre reason I seem to remember your not, probably wrong!!

"I hope northern don't give in" is just a stupid trolling comment, but at the same time, it's not really a case of "I think I deserve £xxxxxx, pay it or we don't work", unless it can be proven you deserve more money, ie similar roles in other companies pay more, or comparing it to other roles in the company. Who decides if your worth more money?

NB: I don't know how much your paid, nor the fitters you referenced!

That's just my opinion anyway, I personally support all grades in our industry, but at the same time it doesn't help the public perception of "we strike when we want to be paid more"

Yes absolutely disgraceful trolling and not just an opinion. Clearly you're an intelligent being who 'lol' smilies at the end of posts ironically.... p.s. it's 'you're'.. not 'your'.

My point is no other grade has demanded a higher recognition. I find it slightly conceited that this grade think they deserve more. All grades hope for and argue for an inflation matching pay rise yearly at least - so lets not confuse the two.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

Can regular drivers / regular driver managers do MDD work?

Yes mainline drivers are trained to prep and shunt on the depot. I will openly admit I don't know the names of all the roads around the shed - but nothing a 20 minute map study wouldn't fix.

 

[carriageline]

If you read my post, I also agreed that if they prove that they deserve the more money, and they are "being made a mug of" then I'm happy to strike. I don't believe anyone should strike just because they feel they deserve more, as you say.

My at the end was about the public perception of the public think we (as an industry) 'strike just because we want more money', and things like this don't help. I don't know how that's ironic? It's funny, cos it's true, the public do think that, and things like this don't help, even more so with poor reporting.

And arguing about spelling/grammar is silly, as you clearly have no better argument. I have never said my spelling or grammar is perfect, so your argument is void.

 

[Beveridges]

Can regular drivers / regular driver managers do MDD work?

All they can do is drive around a depot and prep. You would still have to have someone on the ground to pull their points and give them instructions, as they can't do that side of it. In other words you would still need a few MDD's on the ground to assist the regular drivers.

You would also need a few MDD's to fuel, tank, oil & water, split units, put units back together again, and move half units around as this is really specialised stuff that the regular drivers aren't trained on.
They may also need a bit longer to do preps as they aren't used to doing them.

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

Should this strike action had come to pass, what would have been the main service patterns of the Northern Rail franchise to have been so affected ?

 

[Silv1983]

All they can do is drive around a depot and prep. You would still have to have someone on the ground to pull their points and give them instructions, as they can't do that side of it. In other words you would still need a few MDD's on the ground to assist the regular drivers.

You would also need a few MDD's to fuel, tank, oil & water, split units, put units back together again, and move half units around as this is really specialised stuff that the regular drivers aren't trained on.
They may also need a bit longer to do preps as they aren't used to doing them.

We are trained to pull points (as hard as it is) and set roads... part of an assessment early on.

We can also split units and them back together again. We call it coupling and it happens regularly.

 

[Beveridges]

We are trained to pull points (as hard as it is) and set roads... part of an assessment early on.

Yes but would you know which points to pull if you were doing a move from (for example) the fuel road to 14 Dean Lane via the middle road ?

 

[Beveridges]

We can also split units and them back together again. We call it coupling and it happens regularly.

Your thinking of splitting trains, I'm talking about splitting Units. When was the last time you split a 150 in half ?

The fact is a main line driver certainly could not do an MDD's job without another MDD on the ground to assist them which would be no use whatsoever at west depots.

They could of cause be trained up to be MDD competent, but I doubt that will ever happen as they are already so far behind on the training (route learning) for their own job, never mind the training to do someone else's job!

 

[BravoGolfMike]

Are main line drivers even qualified to do a full prep and sign a unit off as fit for traffic? I know I'm not. Bear in mind a full prep and sign off is far more extensive than a safety check. No use coupling and pulling points if the units aren't allowed off depot as they haven't had a prep sign off

 

[Beveridges]

Are main line drivers even qualified to do a full prep and sign a unit off as fit for traffic? I know I'm not. Bear in mind a full prep and sign off is far more extensive than a safety check. No use coupling and pulling points if the units aren't allowed off depot as they haven't had a prep sign off

Northern drivers are prep trained. However they very rarely get to prep in their job. At all west depots (except Stock sidings?) the units are all prepped by MDDs so that mainline drivers don't have to spend much time on depots.