Infamous Inclines!

[RichmondCommu]

G'day,

As we all know during the steam age trains constantly faced a struggle to climb the Lickey, Shap, Beattock, Aisgill and many others around the country. Certainly in the case of the first two virtually every train had to be banked with the exception of Stanier Pacific’s but many other difficult gradients around the network proved a tough test for both loco and crew.

However, I'm curious to know whether such gradients still pose a problem for both passenger and freight trains. I've read an account of a class 60 struggling up the Lickey with a heavy oil train and earlier on this year I witnessed a class 37 making a right racket as it climbed Aisgill. Needless to say I enjoyed the racket!

I look forward to your responses!

Richmond Commuter

 

[142094]

The ones out of Bradford Interchange and Glasgow Queen Street are noticeable - was on a 156 going out of QS and it was struggling a fair bit.

 

[RichmondCommu]

The ones out of Bradford Interchange and Glasgow Queen Street are noticeable - was on a 156 going out of QS and it was struggling a fair bit.

If you can recall was the train fully loaded?

 

[142094]

If you can recall was the train fully loaded?

It was around rush hour time but still only about 60% full. Had to keep powering well over a minute or two to get up the gradient.

 

[Gareth Marston]

The Leyland Railbus prototype (Class 140?) failed to get up on Talerddig bank in 1981 and had to be rescued. Cambrian has never seen Pacers!

 

[RichmondCommu]

The Leyland Railbus prototype (Class 140?) failed to get up on Talerddig bank in 1981 and had to be rescued. Cambrian has never seen Pacers!

Thats very interesting so thanks for that. Do you know if it was carrying passengers? As a fan of class 25's it would be nice to know if a trusty Sulzer had rescued it!

 

[O L Leigh]

Not a famous incline, but our ECS could get stuck on the Graham Road Curve between the NLL and WA lines near Hackney Downs when we were still using Hornsey depot. If the rail conditions were poor and the train was stopped at the red at the top it was possible that it would be stalled. When that happened all you could do was get permission to set-back into Dalston and then take another run at it with all the signals cleared.

O L Leigh

 

[Tomonthetrain]

MPVs are liable to fail on Old Hill Bank. The irony it happened today is just ironic!

 

[notadriver]

On the East London Line there are many sections of 1 in 30. I think this is one of the reasons only 378s are allowed on that section of route. Because the trains are open with full width gangway connections it's possible to squeeze twice as many passengers in which makes the units even heavier when loaded !

 

[RichmondCommu]

Not a famous incline, but our ECS could get stuck on the Graham Road Curve between the NLL and WA lines near Hackney Downs when we were still using Hornsey depot. If the rail conditions were poor and the train was stopped at the red at the top it was possible that it would be stalled. When that happened all you could do was get permission to set-back into Dalston and then take another run at it with all the signals cleared.

O L Leigh

Thanks for this. Clearly electric units are not fitted with sanding gear? Also I dread to think the chaos that this would have caused. I know this is stating the bleeding obvious but why couldn't the signalman have give you a clear run up?
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

On the East London Line there are many sections of 1 in 30. I think this is one of the reasons only 378s are allowed on that section of route. Because the trains are open with full width gangway connections it's possible to squeeze twice as many passengers in which makes the units even heavier when loaded !

One can only assume that 378's are pretty powerful? I know there are some steep inclines on the central sections of Thameslink and forgot to mention these in my initial post.

 

[Hydro]

Not a famous incline, but our ECS could get stuck on the Graham Road Curve between the NLL and WA lines near Hackney Downs when we were still using Hornsey depot. If the rail conditions were poor and the train was stopped at the red at the top it was possible that it would be stalled. When that happened all you could do was get permission to set-back into Dalston and then take another run at it with all the signals cleared.

O L Leigh

Been stopped on there with a pair of 37's, right good noise getting away again.

 

[O L Leigh]

Thanks for this. Clearly electric units are not fitted with sanding gear? Also I dread to think the chaos that this would have caused. I know this is stating the bleeding obvious but why couldn't the signalman have give you a clear run up?

They are, but dropping sand is only going to have an effect if you already have forward motion. Otherwise all you're doing is making a lovely pile of sand in front of the powered wheels rather than underneath them, which won't help you get up the hill. It's not even as though you can drop sand while slowing to stop due to the way that the sanding gear works.

As for getting a clear run through, the Graham Road Curve is (or was) the boundary between Dalston box and the Hackney workstation at Liv St box. This means that one signaller gets you on to the curve and another one gets you off it, making it impossible to guarantee a clear run through. In addition, once you were parked up on the curve you were out of the way of both the NLL and WA lines, so regular services could continue to run around you until the signaller was ready to bring you off the curve.

Yes a stalled unit having to set-back into Dalston could be very disruptive, but it actually didn't happen too often. Beside, all WA drivers signed the NLL from Canonbury all the way to Stratford which meant that ECS between Hornsey and Liv St could still run via Carpenters Road Curve and the GEML if things were likely to get particularly sticky.

O L Leigh

 

[brillopad]

Lelant to Carbis Bay on the St Ives branch is a 110ft climb in a under a mile - going down it pre OTMR used to be very exciting.

(unless the driver decided to collect lost golf balls)

 

[ANorthernGuard]

The Werneth Incline!

The Werneth Incline - 1 mile 1,383 yards (3 km) long - was the steepest passenger worked railway line in Britain, with a gradient of 1:27 for about a mile.

easier to copy and paste off Wiki for the details

 

[Kneedown]

A lot of the Nottinghamshire colliery lines had some challenging gradients.
Calverton was a good one. It was always advisable to keep your thumb/foot on the sand button on the way in to maximise your chances of making it to Bestwood Park on the way out. A pair of 20's or a 56 would generally do it with 42 loaded HAA's, but you could be in trouble if you had a 58 with blocked sanders (common problem) especially on a wet rail.
Silverhill was another good one. Full blast coming out. I remember being on a pair of 20's and having to switch the slow speed control in to get up the hill as one of the loco's would keep overloading.
The king of them all though, and real test of manhood was Bentinck Colliery near Annesley. Just to get to the loading hopper you had to take a run up to the hill. If you were doing any less than 10mph then forget it. 15 was the preferred speed and even then you might need two three attempts. Any more and rather than go round the sharp left bend to the hopper, you'd more than likely go straight on into the nasty waste pond!
They used to keep 58's off the Bentinck's unless there was really nothing else they could send.
It all changed when we got 60's that could go anywhere in any weather with the heaviest loads.

 

[route:oxford]

How does the incline out of BofA towards the Kippenross tunnel compare to the Queen Street incline? It always feels a real slow drag.

The incline out of Dunblane towards Greenloaning sometimes sounds if it can be a challenge too.

 

[tirphil]

158's can still find it tough going climbing talerddig at times.

A incline not mentioned so far is santen bank. Trouble due to the speed restriction iver bridges 50 and 46 if you had heavy axle weight papers plus appleby's distant was frequenly on so you would be easing up even more! By the time you got to iron ore junc you might only be doing 10mph. 66's have been known to come to a stand with trains there. Something which never happened with a 60.

 

[ChiefPlanner]

Pwllyrhebog , South Wales

 

[rich.davies]

How about Gresford Bank? Ive read that back in the steam days, engines struggled to get up and another engine had to be sent from Wrexham to pull it up the bank.

It also had a siding where trailers etc, could be left to lighten the load, you can still see it on the right hand side but its higher up than the actual track.

 

[pendolino]

Not a famous incline, but our ECS could get stuck on the Graham Road Curve between the NLL and WA lines near Hackney Downs when we were still using Hornsey depot. If the rail conditions were poor and the train was stopped at the red at the top it was possible that it would be stalled. When that happened all you could do was get permission to set-back into Dalston and then take another run at it with all the signals cleared.

O L Leigh

A similar thing used to happen on the Tattenham Corner branch when down trains trying to accelerate from the 20mph PSR over Chipstead Valley Viaduct up the 1:80 grade to Kingswood sometimes span to a stop. Haven't heard of it happening in a while, since they raised the linespeed to 30 (so you can get a bit more of a run-up), cleared a lot of the lineside vegetation and installed a TGA.

A 2-car 456 can still struggle a bit when it's slippery though.

 

[Wyvern]

What class of DMU goes over Dove Holes on the Buxton Line?

It used to be the longest continuously banked section in the country.

Fun in winter I imagine.

 

[Welshman]

156s, if I remember correctly.
Apparently 14xs are banned because of the gradients.

 

[Marvin]

MPVs are liable to fail on Old Hill Bank.

Heck, a Freightliner 66 stalled on it last week!

 

[sprinterguy]

156s, if I remember correctly.
Apparently 14xs are banned because of the gradients.

150s and 156s.
Pacers (and I think 153s as well) are indeed banned from the route.

 

[ChiefPlanner]

Has the "Wall of Death" been mentioned - (Wimbledon - Sutton via St Helier) ?

 

[Donny Dave]

A incline not mentioned so far is santon bank. Trouble due to the speed restriction iver bridges 50 and 46 if you had heavy axle weight papers plus appleby's distant was frequenly on so you would be easing up even more! By the time you got to iron ore junc you might only be doing 10mph. 66's have been known to come to a stand with trains there. Something which never happened with a 60.

There's quite a few in this area. Santon bank as mentioned, plus Brocklesby bank and Elsham bank a little bit further out. In the other direction, it's quite a climb from where the line crosses the M181 to Scunthorpe station. Something like 1 in 60 for a couple of miles.

 

[starrymarkb]

HSTs and Sprinters seem to crawl up Dainton.

Exeter Bank isn't a problem for modern units but requires various safety systems for the descent (ie the various trap points to arrest runaways). The sharp curve doesn't help

 

[156499]

The ones out of Bradford Interchange and Glasgow Queen Street are noticeable - was on a 156 going out of QS and it was struggling a fair bit.

If it was struggling then it would be losing speed, it's called working hard

 

[matchmaker]

How does the incline out of BofA towards the Kippenross tunnel compare to the Queen Street incline? It always feels a real slow drag.

The incline out of Dunblane towards Greenloaning sometimes sounds if it can be a challenge too.

Dunblane bank is 1 in 70 at its steepest. Cowlairs is 1 in 42 so a lot steeper.

 

[Swr28]

Talerddig bank the Class 158s struggle quite often during the summer.