Influencer flags unbarriered south London stations

[BJames]

The "influencer" flagged in the OP has released a "part 2" to this: Kidbrooke, Mitcham Junction, St Johns and Plumstead - followed by "all of the DLR"

https://www.tiktok.com/video/7163384929424870661

Again this came up on my TikTok this morning - I think the algorithm shows you more from the same people once you interact even a little bit (and I did look at his page and read the comments on the last video so I was on there quite a while).

 

[Runningaround]

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We have seen reports on this forum of passengers travelling with advance tickets issued as etickets from A to B not having been scanned at A, being a gated station, and guards charging for a new ticket. There is no reason something similar couldn't be done in a back office.

How does the guard know if the ticket is a part of a split and so the passenger cannot get off to have it scanned at the gate?
As far as he knows it's an A - B ticket, I don't show all my other splits when asked for my ticket, I show the one relevant at the time. I don't show my second part as the same guard comes through after my original split. Out of the eight tickets I had a week ago for a trip three were scanned once by a guard and while leaving and entering my destination.
And what if the gates are open, unless you're on an Oyster or Contactless in London why would you scan a ticket at an open gate?

 

[Kite159]

Is that trying to promote fare evasion by suggesting to use those stations rather than other ones nearby which do have barriers if you want a free ride?

Next up all tram stops (other than Wimbledon)?

St John's must get a few who use it to avoid the barriers at Lewisham.

 

[Feuillesmortes]

A little glossary:

feds = officers
bare = many
free yard = no-one's home

 

[BJames]

Is that trying to promote fare evasion by suggesting to use those stations rather than other ones nearby which do have barriers if you want a free ride?

Next up all tram stops (other than Wimbledon)?

St John's must get a few who use it to avoid the barriers at Lewisham.

I guess? But then the serious fare evaders are probably the ones who will use the stations with barriers and push through the barriers anyway - I wonder what the proportion of fare evaders using unbarriered nearby stations rather than barriered ones actually is.

 

[Busaholic]

I'm surprised Shortlands didn't make the list, probably a few pay when challenged for Bromley get off there to bypass the barriers at Bromley South..

Same with Plumstead

I used to do a daily walk from Bromley North to Shortlands, and return. You'd need to be pretty fit and desperately short of money to get off at Shortlands if you really wanted Bromley South, given the topography involved. A stroll it ain't!

 

[Tw99]

I used to do a daily walk from Bromley North to Shortlands, and return. You'd need to be pretty fit and desperately short of money to get off at Shortlands if you really wanted Bromley South, given the topography involved. A stroll it ain't!

Not that I really disagree with your point, but fwiw it is relatively flat between Bromley South and Shortlands (whereas North is up the hill).

 

[Deerfold]

Can do it via CCTV via a gate rapid response button for help, like with the underground. Like when my late mum got trapped in a gate at an unmanned station - trying not to laugh!

Suspect people who would otherwise appreciate no barriers will not struggle to bypass them with no ticket when there's no staff there.

 

[infobleep]

If someone is making a journey from B to C, using a ticket from A to D, that is cheaper than B to C but still valid for travel on B to C, they may never tap in or out as the gates may not recognise the ticket, since they would be legally starting short and finishing short in the one journey.

 

[TUC]

Is this another case of a Londoner making a big deal of an issue whilst being insular and unaware of how common it is in the rest of the country ?

 

[JonathanH]

If someone is making a journey from B to C, using a ticket from A to D, that is cheaper than B to C but still valid for travel on B to C, they may never tap in or out as the gates may not recognise the ticket, since they would be legally starting short and finishing short in the one journey.

Yes, but not all tickets (eg advances) allow starting short and ending short.

 

[infobleep]

Yes, but not all tickets (eg advances) allow starting short and ending short.

Then those would not be valid on travel from B to C, unlike those which are still valid.

 

[Trackman]

The "influencer" flagged in the OP has released a "part 2" to this: Kidbrooke, Mitcham Junction, St Johns and Plumstead - followed by "all of the DLR"

As for the DLR this so called 'Influencer' they haven't a clue how it works revenue protection wise, for St. Johns - Lols and all that!

 

[Sm5]

The "influencer" flagged in the OP has released a "part 2" to this: Kidbrooke, Mitcham Junction..

i’m trying to figure which is less appealing, going on a day trip to Kidbrooke from Mitcham Junction, or going to Mitcham Junction from Kidbrooke… and why ?

Are these towns twinned or something ?

its about as appealing as going from Moses Gate to Banstead.

 

[island]

If someone is making a journey from B to C, using a ticket from A to D, that is cheaper than B to C but still valid for travel on B to C, they may never tap in or out as the gates may not recognise the ticket, since they would be legally starting short and finishing short in the one journey.

That's true but unlikely to arise within the London zones 1-6 due to the fares structure.

Yes, but not all tickets (eg advances) allow starting short and ending short.

There are no advances within the London zones.

 

[JonathanH]

There are no advances within the London zones.

Not within admittedly but there are advances from and to stations in the London zones on which exactly the same restrictions apply.

 

[RPI]

Gates are only part of the solution, it needs a combination of working gatelines with proactive staff, regular onboard checks and reliable station facilities to reduce ticketless travel

 

[miklcct]

i’m trying to figure which is less appealing, going on a day trip to Kidbrooke from Mitcham Junction, or going to Mitcham Junction from Kidbrooke… and why ?

Are these towns twinned or something ?

its about as appealing as going from Moses Gate to Banstead.

It's perfectly feasible to do a day trip from Kentish Town West to Mitcham Junction via Farringdon, then to somewhere on the DLR via Abbey Wood and back to Kentish Town West via Stratford without passing a gateline.

 

[blakey1152]

I would assume a decrease in fares would mean more people would be inclined to take trains rather than other modes of transport, the only evidence I can currently think of is possibly the 7 euro ticket in Germany. People will always find a way to avoid fares so unless you can have ticket checkers on every train I feel it would be better to have more people paying less than less people paying more

I agree with this, since the Elizabeth Line has opened I've used it to travel up to London from Abbey Wood when I need to. Speed, Reliability but also the sensible TfL pricing for the fares make it a no brainer.

To get to the Elizabeth Line I need to take the bus at £1.65 but this is far cheaper than getting on a Southeastern train at my local station Slade Green and making the short hop to Abbey Wood to connect to the Elizabeth line.
Peak time its £8.90 from Slade Green to Paddington....but its only £4.30 if I get the bus to Abbey Wood and use the Elizabeth line from there...
I can't justify paying double the fare for the short distance from Slade Green to Abbey Wood. But if the excess was sensible maybe £1.50 more I would do...

 

[MikeWh]

Peak time its £8.90 from Slade Green to Paddington....but its only £4.30 if I get the bus to Abbey Wood and use the Elizabeth line from there...

Plus £1.65 for the bus, making £5.95 vs £8.90. Also, if you split the journey at Abbey Wood it's only £7.70 peak.

 

[zwk500]

It's perfectly feasible to do a day trip from Kentish Town West to Mitcham Junction via Farringdon, then to somewhere on the DLR via Abbey Wood and back to Kentish Town West via Stratford without passing a gateline.

The feasibility wasn't in doubt, it was the desire!

 

[infobleep]

That's true but unlikely to arise within the London zones 1-6 due to the fares structure.

But it can happen when travelling from outside of London into it.

 

[ivorytoast28]

While I don't condone the advertising of such stations, the reality is who regularly needs to travel between two stations that are unmanned? If you really want you can easily enter the TFL contactless system off national rail at places like Wimbledon or Farringdon also but again what use is it unless you happen to be travelling between two random suburban stations that both have no gates? Most people are going somewhere central and goodluck getting in/out there

Edit: Just watched the videos you posted, jeez, how do people stand watching that sort of dumb monologue, what a joke, no wonder they need free train travel

 

[D841 Roebuck]

A little glossary:

feds = officers
bare = many
free yard = no-one's home

Social media influencer = oxygen thief

 

[miklcct]

but again what use is it unless you happen to be travelling between two random suburban stations that both have no gates?

There are so many stations in zone 2 urban London without gates, that travelling between them are a likely occurrence. For example, Kentish Town West, London Fields, etc.

 

[laseandre]

Honestly, who gives a damn about unticketed travel - the railways are a public service and should be run as such. The faster the private companies go bankrupt the better.

 

[Tetchytyke]

There are so many stations in zone 2 urban London without gates, that travelling between them are a likely occurrence. For example, Kentish Town West, London Fields, etc.

There are a lot of unbarriered suburban stations in London, if we list every journey pair we'd be here forever.

Barriers cost money, both to install and staff. AFAIK stations can't be entirely unmanned with barriers shut, though specific gatelines can be controlled remotely from elsewhere in the station.

So the question is whether it's worth installing barriers in smaller suburban stations when nearly all stations in zone 1 have barriers, and fares between the outer zones are usually relatively low anyway.

Greenwich would no doubt be barriered if the layout was more conducive to it, but beyond that, I don't see rampant fare evasion from Woolwich Dockyard when Woolwich Arsenal and zone 1 destinations have barriers.

 

[jon81uk]

Honestly, who gives a damn about unticketed travel - the railways are a public service and should be run as such. The faster the private companies go bankrupt the better.

Most of them are being run as public service at the moment aren't they?
Also TfL is a public service and a number of the stations flagged in the videos being discussed are DLR.

 

[zwk500]

Honestly, who gives a damn about unticketed travel - the railways are a public service and should be run as such. The faster the private companies go bankrupt the better.

AIUI the private companies are being paid fixed fees, and it's the government that takes on the revenue risk. Any unticketed travel makes naff all difference to the private companies' viability but directly hurts the taxpayer.

 

[Starmill]

It has frequently been shown that ticket gates pay for themselves in a short period after installation.

Nothing of the kind has been shown. The capital cost of the gates is possible to create a positive business case for, yes. However, the cost of the extra staff is very significant - note also that many of them are represented by RMT and are currently taking significant industrial action, the only solution to which will be a meaningful pay rise. Obviously some companies like Northern circumvent RMT by hiring via a contractor, but then there's the contractor's profit to pay.

Honestly, who gives a damn about unticketed travel - the railways are a public service and should be run as such. The faster the private companies go bankrupt the better.

Or the alternative view is that by asking most people travelling on trains to pay twice, once through public funding and then again through buying a ticket, the majority are being seriously ripped off!