Interesting platform changes at Woking

[GrahamA]

Seemingly caused by a blockage on the up Portsmouth Direct near Woking there have been some unusual platform changes today.


First image (from Open Train Times) is from 10:00 today. My train is the 10:00 Weymouth and it's on platform 2 which is normally an up platform. This train normally leaves from platform 4 but there's an Alton train in that one. The Alton train normally is platform 5 but the train on platform 5 is a Waterloo train just in from Guildford.


Moving SW a bit the paths of the down trains seem to clash. Not seen that before on OTT.


This view is from approx 18:20 and shows the NOGO on the up line from Guildford. I arrived on an up train from Weymouth alongside two other up trains - platforms 1,2 and 4. Never experienced that before either.

It's very flexible having all the through platforms at Woking signalled in both directions, but this morning's changes were a bit last minute and caused all kinds of confusion for passengers on the station.

 

[Oldgaloot]

There may be absolutely zero connection but I came back from Waterloo this afternoon on the 17.00 Portsmouth service. Usually a 9 coach train, today it was 4. The guard said he'd tried to discover where the missing 5 coaches were but "no-one knew". Go figure, as our American cousins say.

 

[jwhite9185]

Trains have been crossing over from platforms 4/5 to the usual lines towards London for a good week or so now.

Even the 455's that run a stopping service from Guildford were doing it yesterday. Not noticed any diesels doing it though, so guess it's to do with the Guildford line.

As the points are outside my living room window, I can tell due to the trains that are crossing over making just a bit much more noise!

 

[Bigfoot]

There is an ongoing points failure at Woking junction. Has been an issue for well over a week.

 

[TEW]

Trains are still able to arrive in to platforms 1 and 2 from Guildford, but they have to use the Down Fast line to WK506 signal, from there they can then be routed in to platforms 1 and 2. I believe WK506 is approach controlled though so it's usually slower doing that, and it still prevents any departures from Woking on the Down Fast line.

 

[pompeyfan]

I’ve been told it’s a problem with the diamonds off the up Guildford, and are not likely to be fixed until after the summer.

 

[greaterwest]

Trains are still able to arrive in to platforms 1 and 2 from Guildford, but they have to use the Down Fast line to WK506 signal, from there they can then be routed in to platforms 1 and 2. I believe WK506 is approach controlled though so it's usually slower doing that, and it still prevents any departures from Woking on the Down Fast line.

It's actually a little worse than this. Due to how the signalling system works, while a train is crawling up to WK506 signal on the Down Fast this prevents an arrival on platform 4 (cannot clear WK371 signal until the section after WK373 is clear).

I’ve been told it’s a problem with the diamonds off the up Guildford, and are not likely to be fixed until after the summer.

Also what I have heard!

 

[Big Jumby 74]

There is an ongoing points failure at Woking junction

My first thought.

I’ve been told it’s a problem with the diamonds off the up Guildford

Not good. Some on here may remember the song and dance getting the diamond renewed on the UMF at Weybridge, except the Woking situation is far more critical train service wise!

 

[TEW]

It's actually a little worse than this. Due to how the signalling system works, while a train is crawling up to WK506 signal on the Down Fast this prevents an arrival on platform 4 (cannot clear WK371 signal until the section after WK373 is clear).


Also what I have heard!

I assume an arrival in to platform 2 in the down direction and platform 4 in the up direction is possible at the same time? If so, that explains why the platforms are often being used like that.

 

[greaterwest]

I assume an arrival in to platform 2 in the down direction and platform 4 in the up direction is possible at the same time? If so, that explains why the platforms are often being used like that.

Yes you can arrive on platform 2 from the Brookwood direction and platform 4 (or 5) from the Guildford direction at the same time. And that is the preferred method of work due to the delays caused by crossing from WK506 to the Up Fast.

 

[Bigfoot]

My first thought.

Not good. Some on here may remember the song and dance getting the diamond renewed on the UMF at Weybridge, except the Woking situation is far more critical train service wise!

The weybridge diamond was an experimental crossing which wasn't a success!

 

[pompeyfan]

I assume an arrival in to platform 2 in the down direction and platform 4 in the up direction is possible at the same time? If so, that explains why the platforms are often being used like that.

I believe so. The overlap is less restrictive putting down trains into the up fast whilst bringing something off the down Guildford in the up direction when compared to DG - Platform 2 / DF - Platform 4.

 

[greaterwest]

I believe so. The overlap is less restrictive putting down trains into the up fast whilst bringing something off the down Guildford in the up direction when compared to DG - Platform 2 / DF - Platform 4.

Thanks for correcting me too, I misread @TEW's original post! Yes, you can run down into 2 and up into 4 without restriction. Just the lower speed limit performing the move over the crossing London side of the station, it takes longer to cross a down train into platform 2.

 

[alastair]

There is an ongoing points failure at Woking junction. Has been an issue for well over a week.

Yes, this was happening nearly 2 weeks ago (8th May) when I travelled through Woking.

 

[Big Jumby 74]

I believe so. The overlap is less restrictive

Things may have changed since my day, but IIRC Woking had a habit (at one time) of working to either short or long overlaps, the latter during leaf-fall (completely understandable), but (again IIRC?) there was a period when working to Long OL's seemed to becoming the 'norm'(?) at any/all time of the year, which was hindering performance, and thus leading (potentially) to a situation whereby every location in the country might have to work (TT wise) to a long OL scenario at some point in the future, thus reducing TT capacity? I may be mistaken, or perhaps it was down to someone/some instruction (at the time) that was driving events at/around the SW area?

The weybridge diamond was an experimental crossing which wasn't a success!

Someone (from on high) wanted to get rid of same altogether, until it was (politely) pointed out, that the then 'in the planning' 10 car suburban plan, required that route (DMF to Chertsey) to remain operational, as it was part of the integral plan going forward.

 

[jwhite9185]

Still trains heading to Waterloo from the South departing from platform 4 and crossing over.

And I saw a diesel from London cross over to platform 2 yesterday. Is this still due to the points failure?

 

[pompeyfan]

The points in question (or rather the interlocking protecting them) are defective and an interim repair isn’t expected until the autumn. Because there’s been operational incidents trains will not be running from WK506 into platform 2 unless it’s absolutely necessary.

 

[TJM]

The points in question (or rather the interlocking protecting them) are defective and an interim repair isn’t expected until the autumn. Because there’s been operational incidents trains will not be running from WK506 into platform 2 unless it’s absolutely necessary.

It is causing noticeable delays timing-wise though on a busy route, how can it be considered acceptable to not fix it until the autumn?

 

[Bigfoot]

It is causing noticeable delays timing-wise though on a busy route, how can it be considered acceptable to not fix it until the autumn?

It probably requires a full closure of the junction for at least 24 hours. Not the easiest to plan at short notice, especially when there are still routes over the junction that work, even if they cause some delays.

 

[Deepgreen]

I've seen this sort of stuff at Woking on many occasions. I suppose as long as a normal-ish service can be maintained it's OK, but to take months to fix a 'points failure' (even if actually a crossing) is dire.

 

[infobleep]

The points in question (or rather the interlocking protecting them) are defective and an interim repair isn’t expected until the autumn. Because there’s been operational incidents trains will not be running from WK506 into platform 2 unless it’s absolutely necessary.

Does an interim repair mean that a longer term repair is required after this?

 

[Big Jumby 74]

Does an interim repair mean that a longer term repair is required after this?

That phrase would suggest so, yes. The problem with this sort of (location) failure, is that the track formation/layout, particularly at the Junction was (pre covid etc) maxed out at certain times of the day. It's not until one sits down with all the relevant timings detail of trains pathed through such a junction, that one becomes aware of how difficult it can be to find a conflict free path through same for some random charter train or test train or some such.
With the revised temporary plan (as is apparently happening at present) there are certain to be a number of timings that, on paper, may have been compromised, in order to keep the core service running. If the revised plan in operation today were to become permanent, then it is very likely the overall capacity (number of train paths) through the junction, and hence through Woking and further afield, would be reduced (from that which existed pre covid).

 

[infobleep]

That phrase would suggest so, yes. The problem with this sort of (location) failure, is that the track formation/layout, particularly at the Junction was (pre covid etc) maxed out at certain times of the day. It's not until one sits down with all the relevant timings detail of trains pathed through such a junction, that one becomes aware of how difficult it can be to find a conflict free path through same for some random charter train or test train or some such.
With the revised temporary plan (as is apparently happening at present) there are certain to be a number of timings that, on paper, may have been compromised, in order to keep the core service running. If the revised plan in operation today were to become permanent, then it is very likely the overall capacity (number of train paths) through the junction, and hence through Woking and further afield, would be reduced (from that which existed pre covid).

So what is needed for a full fix I wonder. Simply more time to fix the issue, which they don't have, hence the interim fix.

 

[Bald Rick]

I’d expect an ‘interim’ repair in days rsther than months.

 

[Big Jumby 74]

I’d expect an ‘interim’ repair in days rsther than months

Quite so. A plain lining job no doubt. Presume it's 2236's? Either way Up Pompey's will still need to run via the Down line(s).

 

[Bald Rick]

Quite so. A plain lining job no doubt. Presume it's 2236's? Either way Up Pompey's will still need to run via the Down line(s).

2236 aye. Plain lining doesnt help.

 

[Big Jumby 74]

Plain lining doesnt help.

Get that point now. Had wondered at one time if 2235 diamond was the problem, but obviously not, not that that makes the resolution any easier. Speaking of the DMS, has that seemingly endless TSR been lifted now. Sorry to ask, have been out of the picture for so long now.....!

 

[infobleep]

If a train heading down is on platform 5, can down trains use platform 4 at the moment or must they always use platform 5?

This evening the 18:01 Guildford to London Waterloo was late. It arrived into Woking 18:21.

The next train to use platform 4 wasn't listed on the departure boards until 18:34. The 18:26 to Alton was listed as starting from platform 5, and running 1 minute late. It had departed West Byfleet on time. Why couldn't it use platform 4?

How long would train departing platform 4 up need before a down train could use it?

The 18:24 to Portsmouth, also using platform 5, was 2 minutes late.

No train used platform 4, before the train to Alton departed platform 5, at 18:32; now some 6 minutes late and not 1 minute.

Although the guard referenced the short platforms, no mention was made of the late running. Perhaps they are so use to it, they don't think about it.

As a result I missed the connection at Ash Vale and I am now in the middle of my 26 minute wait for the next train to Camberley, which if on time, will give me 6 minutes to make the start of a theatre performance in Camberley. Om average it is 2 minutes late and if that occurs then I will have 4 minutes.

It is a 4 minute walk to the theatre and I am young enough to run, so I should make it, just, dpending on how long it takes to cross the roads.

I could have traveled from Guildford via Aldershot but at this time of the evening, it is faster to go via Woking, as the trains to Ascot depart 9 minites later than they do for most of the day. 62 minutes at the time vers 50 minutes at other times. Via Woking was scheduled to be 54 minutes.

Also there is nothing on National Rail Enquiries saying one could be delayed at Woking.

 

[DerekC]

One thing I noticed at Woking this afternoon is that whatever system drives the platform displays can’t tell which of two trains approaching on different tracks is going to arrive first. This was on platform 5 (down slow) when an Exeter train was approaching on the down fast alongside a Portsmouth via Basingstoke train on the down slow. Platform 4 (down fast) was being used for an up service at the time so the Exeter was diverted to 5. This had been planned about 20 minutes before as a platform alteration so both trains were shown on the Platform 5 display and until both were approaching the last signal before the platform the order was correct (i.e as the signaller had set the route up) with the Exeter first. However as the Exeter crossed to the down slow, the Portsmouth being held at the signal, the display changed to show the Portsmouth arriving first, with the automatic announcement made accordingly. Result some confused passengers, although the fact that the train came down the platform slowly with “Exeter St Davids” on the front helped!

I appreciate that predicting arrival sequence isn’t simple when you have more than one approach and decisions about priority being made by the signaller but I can’t work out why the system changed its mind having got it right to start with.

 

[DelW]

I appreciate that predicting arrival sequence isn’t simple when you have more than one approach and decisions about priority being made by the signaller but I can’t work out why the system changed its mind having got it right to start with.

It does seem strange that it changed from the correct sequence to the incorrect one at the last minute.

But even in normal times, Woking is prone to last minute switches between platforms 4 and 5 or vice versa. These often leave the information systems struggling to keep up, with manual announcements conflicting with automated ones and/or with the displays. I've lost count of the number of times I've been part of a stampede over the footbridge, with anyone needing to use the lifts at risk of being left behind.