Intimidating Ticket Inspector

[PlayboiCarti]

Long story. Was travelling from Mouslecoombe to Brighton, a more or less 7 minute journey. 6:33 to 6:40. Went to purchase a ticket just before I got on, just as the transaction on TrainLine was going through my phone died. So I assumed my ticket had gone through and carried onto the train. Charged my phone up on the train and realised it had not gone through, but wasn't able to purchase one on the train due to no service and could not find ticket inspector on the train. Got off the station and purchased a ticket for the next train, which would literally arrive in the next 10 minutes. Told Revenue Inspector at gate, being honest that my phone had died on the train which he then told me I was lying and had no ticket, despite having one but for the next on into Brighton (once again would arrive in less than 10 minutes). Started being aggressive saying he would detain me for lying and having no ticket and that he will just "call the police", putting me under immense pressure with 2 security guards standing around me. Asked for my name and address so I gave him it, and told him that I had a ticket for the train which was soon to arrive and explained what happened. He told me that I had apparently just purchased it on my phone infront of him, which wasn't true. Was then given a "witness statement" slip with no signature at the bottom. He did not let me scan my ticket to leave, instead just opening the barrier and getting me to leave. I then had walked back and said "I think you forgot to sign the bottom" and then was escorted out the station for apparently trespassing. I am 20, a student in Brighton and have never been in trouble with fare evasion before.

During the question he was asking me I was full of anxiety, and said no to the question of "Are you a university student". I can provide every piece of proof including Student ID, my ticket I had purchased, and time of purchase of ticket which was 6:46. The slip issused was at 6:52. Not very sure if I am going to prison or a large sum of fine. I have screenshots of every aspect of my ticket. He also took my home address which I DO NOT LIVE BACK AT ANYMORE. My parents still live there but not me.

 

[Brissle Girl]

You boarded a train without a valid ticket, so commited an offence. So regardless of what happened after that the rail company is in its rights to prosecute you. However, it is likely that they will offer you an out of court settlement in due course if you cooperate when you receive a letter from them.

The good news is that the address given is your parents, so the letter will reach you, but you need to emphasise to your parents to make you aware of it when it arrives, and given that you’ll have limited time to respond to get the contents to you by email asap.

 

[PlayboiCarti]

You boarded a train without a valid ticket, so commited an offence. So regardless of what happened after that the rail company is in its rights to prosecute you. However, it is likely that they will offer you an out of court settlement in due course if you cooperate when you receive a letter from them.

The good news is that the address given is your parents, so the letter will reach you, but you need to emphasise to your parents to make you aware of it when it arrives, and given that you’ll have limited time to respond to get the contents to you by email asap.

But can I testify this, I did not intend to fare evade I always buy tickets.. I cannot afford a fine..

 

[antharro]

Doesn't matter. The fact of the case is that, intentionally or not, you travelled without a valid ticket. The railway are well within their rights to take you to court for this. However it's likely that it won't come to this. As Brissle Girl said, you will receive a letter from them in due course. This can take up to six months though is usually received a lot sooner. Once you have that letter, post it up here with any personal information (name, address, case number etc) obscured, and you'll receive good advice on what to do next. If you cooperate with the railway there's a good chance you'll end up paying the full price for the ticket and an admin fee, which will likely be a low three figure amount.

Take some time to read other posts in this subforum and you'll get a good idea of the advice offered and the final outcomes.

 

[reb0118]

Unfortunately for you your actions fell into the classic "pay when challenged" behaviour exhibited by fare dodgers when presented by a revenue barrier at their alighting station.

 

[island]

But can I testify this, I did not intend to fare evade I always buy tickets.. I cannot afford a fine..

It makes no difference. Entering a train without a valid ticket is a criminal offence, regardless of your intent, unless there were no working ticket facilities or you had permission from an authorised member of staff.

You also committed the offence of giving false details, although this is unlikely to be detected.

You now need to wait to receive a letter in the post from the train company. GTR almost always lets you settle without going to court for a first offence, but you'll need to pay for administrative costs of around £100.

 

[Fermiboson]

This could be a case for a compelling reasons appeal - GTR will be able to see that every other ticket you purchased on a route you presumably regularly commute on was bought well before ticket checks occurred/etc. and that may make the story more believable. As mentioned above, you did manage to commit two criminal offences in one go regardless of intent (these are strict liability offences), so you really should not be pushing your luck. GTR tend to be quite reasonable to deal with, though I don’t know how receptive they would be to a story like this, presuming that you are able to get evidence to back it up.

There will be some weeks at minimum before the letter arrives and all is said and done - it should not be impossible to save something on the order of £100. Come back if/when you receive further correspondence and forum members will be able to advise on how to reply.

 

[skyhigh]

This could be a case for a compelling reasons appeal....

This isn't a Penalty Fare so there is no such thing as a "compelling reasons appeal".

 

[AlterEgo]

This could be a case for a compelling reasons appeal - GTR will be able to see that every other ticket you purchased on a route you presumably regularly commute on was bought well before ticket checks occurred/etc

Well, they will only see the times the OP bought a ticket. GTR's problem is they suspect the OP doesn't buy tickets when they don't get challenged. There's more to this story than just the ticket irregularity, as the OP mentions being escorted off the premises for trespass without elaborating on the events that must have led to that.

I think this will be a case of learning a difficult lesson, unfortunately.

 

[Fawkes Cat]

Not very sure if I am going to prison or a large sum of fine.

On these points:
- you won't be going to prison. Unless you aggravated matters a lot (assaulting railway staff - that sort of thing) the only sanction the court is allowed to impose is a fine.
- the fine is based on your income (assumed to be £120 per week if it's less than that: assumed to be rather more if you don't co-operate with the court) and then various costs are added on. Broadly, assume £400 - £500. It's up to you to decide if this is a very large fine.

 

[Brissle Girl]

He also took my home address which I DO NOT LIVE BACK AT ANYMORE. My parents still live there but not me.

How did he get your home address (although pedantically, if it's not your home address, why call it that?)

If it was your driving licence, and you really do not live there anymore (as opposed to being a place you go outside term times), then you need to get that amended, as you are committing a further offence by not updating it.

 

[PlayboiCarti]

How did he get your home address (although pedantically, if it's not your home address, why call it that?)

If it was your driving licence, and you really do not live there anymore (as opposed to being a place you go outside term times), then you need to get that amended, as you are committing a further offence by not updating it.

Because I live at University, so what happens now i’m not with my parents, it won’t become their responsibility right. I do not live at the address anymore. He pressured me into emptying my bag infront of him

 

[PlayboiCarti]

On these points:
- you won't be going to prison. Unless you aggravated matters a lot (assaulting railway staff - that sort of thing) the only sanction the court is allowed to impose is a fine.
- the fine is based on your income (assumed to be £120 per week if it's less than that: assumed to be rather more if you don't co-operate with the court) and then various costs are added on. Broadly, assume £400 - £500. It's up to you to decide if this is a very large fine.

What if I have no income, I live off student loan. Really unsure how this will turn out

 

[methecooldude]

What if I have no income, I live off student loan. Really unsure how this will turn out

Then you'll need to find the money from somewhere

 

[Brissle Girl]

What if I have no income, I live off student loan. Really unsure how this will turn out

As I understand it the hospitality industry is always short staffed, so maybe find a part time or vacation job (as so many students do these days)?

 

[Fermiboson]

Because I live at University, so what happens now i’m not with my parents, it won’t become their responsibility right. I do not live at the address anymore. He pressured me into emptying my bag infront of him

For future reference railway staff do not have the right to check the contents of your bag for a ticketing offence - but that is a very moot point by now.

It won’t become their responsiblity if you ignore the TOC, but it will very much remain your responsibility, increasingly so, and end with a conviction.

Are your parents informed? If not, inform them; they need to be able to notify you of the arrival of a letter rapidly, in addition to giving any financial support they may be able to within a short time period.

In unequivocal terms: your cheaper option is to pay the settlement. The court will have you pay the TOC the ticket cost back anyways, plus a 40% surcharge, plus a whopping £400 fine as opposed to a £100 admin fee, plus a criminal conviction. GTR are generally reasonable with their settlement offers and you won’t find yourself having to pay £500 for a bunch of anytime singles for £50 worth of evaded fares, like some other TOCs tend to do.

Save whereever you can. Eat cheaper food, go out less, be more efficient with your laundry, walk instead of taking the bus, etc. There are many ways to save £100 within the time period of a few weeks to a few months that you will have; in the end it’s not going to be a gigantic amount, and there is little point in fretting over it now given that this is the minimum you will have to pay.

 

[island]

For future reference railway staff do not have the right to check the contents of your bag for a ticketing offence

To be clear, they have the right to ask to see what's in your bag, in the same way as you or I do. They do not have a right to forcibly take it and look in it. The passenger has the right to refuse to show the contents, although in some instances this may constitute a failure of the attitude test and result in a prosecution report rather than a penalty fare or verbal warning.

 

[PlayboiCarti]

Okay thanks everyone, bear in mind the ticket is 1.75! I am so ****ed

 

[Haywain]

Okay thanks everyone, bear in mind the ticket is 1.75! I am so ****ed

No, you're not. You are going to be dealing with GTR who are, typically, the most reasonable train company to deal with. It is highly likely you'll get offered a settlement, and GTR generally go fo an admin fee of around £60 on top of any fares. For the future, while you are in the Brighton area have a look at getting KeyGo which works on both trains and buses and avoids the buying tickets aspect as it's a tap in, tap out system.

 

[gray1404]

I cannot work out why the ticket inspector wanted to look inside your bag? Once you have settled this matter I would make a separate complaint about his aspect of his behaviour and ask if he was acting in line with their company policy.

 

[reb0118]

I cannot work out why the ticket inspector wanted to look inside your bag?

I once had a "non paying customer" inform me that she had lost her purse and went through all the usual excuses to waste time and avoid paying.

Another passenger, a regular who boarded at the same station, had witnessed her remonstrations on board and enquired as to the reason. When I explained that the poor lady had no money for her fare he informed me that she had sat down on the same bench as him, on an otherwise empty station, and had proceeded to count out a large quantity of cash (he estimated between £80 & £100) whilst engaged in a heated argument with an unknown person via her mobile phone. He seemed incredulous that the female couldn't pay. As he had seen where the money was placed.

I returned to her informed her that I had information from a credible source that she could pay and asked her to pay or get off. She denied having the means to pay. I pointed to where I was informed the money was and offered her the opportunity to empty it to "prove" her case. She refused, stood up, waved her arms about, and again remonstrated to the assembled passengers in the coach and asked: "since when was it a requirement to empty your pockets to travel by train?" I agreed that it wasn't a requirement at which an old dear aboard chimed in - "no, but you do need a ticket, hen. Just pay the man or get off".

The brass neck of somebody carrying more cash than I had refusing to pay a few pounds - but I suppose the "deal" she had struck for her substance was for £100 and not £96.40.

So yes, you can ask passengers to empty their pockets or bags, whether it is wise or not is immaterial. We can not, of course, physically search those bags without permission (and even then I wouldn't advise it). Sometimes a firm & robust manner is required.

 

[D365]

How did he get your home address (although pedantically, if it's not your home address, why call it that?)

If it was your driving licence, and you really do not live there anymore (as opposed to being a place you go outside term times), then you need to get that amended, as you are committing a further offence by not updating it.

Because I live at University, so what happens now i’m not with my parents, it won’t become their responsibility right. I do not live at the address anymore. He pressured me into emptying my bag infront of him

@PlayboiCarti if your bank accounts etc are still registered to your parents’ address, your electoral address is still at the address, and you stay with them [at least for a few nights] outside of term time, you do not need to change your licence.

As for the purported offence - is this the point where we say ”wait and see what the letter says”.

 

[Gloster]

The rules (DVLA leaflet INS57P) say that the address on your licence and that DVLC hold must be ‘one in GB where we can contact you at any time’, but not a PO Box address. It may reasonably be inferred that the address at which a close family member, or even a friend, normally resides (in GB) and with whom you are in regular contact would fulfil this requirement.

 

[WesternLancer]

As I understand it the hospitality industry is always short staffed, so maybe find a part time or vacation job (as so many students do these days)?

I think the op means they have no income as students money is borrowing via their loan. But the court will translate that into a notional minimum income for the purposes of setting the fine.

 

[PlayboiCarti]

I think the op means they have no income as students money is borrowing via their loan. But the court will translate that into a notional minimum income for the purposes of setting the fine.

Exactly this

Thanks everyone, I shall keep you updated. Can i just ask why the witness statement doesn’t have a signature on the bottom and why does it say authorised travel from mouslecoombe to brighton. Why did he not let me scan my ticket to exit out the station, I don’t understand.

 

[30907]

Thanks everyone, I shall keep you updated. Can i just ask why the witness statement ...say authorised travel from mouslecoombe to brighton. Why did he not let me scan my ticket to exit out the station, I don’t understand.

Most likely because your ticket wasn't valid for the train you caught and the barriers might have rejected it.
.

 

[WesternLancer]

Exactly this

Thanks everyone, I shall keep you updated. Can i just ask why the witness statement doesn’t have a signature on the bottom and why does it say authorised travel from mouslecoombe to brighton. Why did he not let me scan my ticket to exit out the station, I don’t understand.

I think if you negotiate with southern in terms of the usual advised format on here you can get this sorted at least without worrying about court.