'Ironing Board' seats

[Bletchleyite]

So, I'm on the 1810 ish East Croydon to MKC for the whole journey bar one stop.

It's formed of a newer Electrostar unit with ironing boards.

I have plenty of legroom despite being 6' 4" (much of which is in the upper leg), unlike on a Pendolino or 350 (except priority seats). This is the case in every seat on the train. Indeed, it is I think the only current UK multiple unit in which I can comfortably sit in every seat (the all-tables Electrostars may be another, I can't recall if there are also tight airline seats in those e.g. at the ends).

I can open my laptop enough to type this, unlike on a Pendolino.

The seat is wide enough (just), unlike many other 2+2 and all 3+2, and is not rammed up hard against the wall.

It's upright, but supportive. Though I admit the ScotRail tapered cushion is even better.

It's quite hard, but no harder than the office chair I've sat in all day.

Because it tapers in at the top, it doesn't feel claustrophobic, nor block the window view.

Why do people hate them so much?

 

[xc170]

Why do people hate them so much?

I've wondered that myself, I don't have a problem with them myself.

I think it's more a band wagon...

 

[bramling]

So, I'm on the 1810 ish East Croydon to MKC for the whole journey bar one stop.

It's formed of a newer Electrostar unit with ironing boards.

I have plenty of legroom despite being 6' 4" (much of which is in the upper leg), unlike on a Pendolino or 350 (except priority seats). This is the case in every seat on the train. Indeed, it is I think the only current UK multiple unit in which I can comfortably sit in every seat (the all-tables Electrostars may be another, I can't recall if there are also tight airline seats in those e.g. at the ends).

I can open my laptop enough to type this, unlike on a Pendolino.

The seat is wide enough (just), unlike many other 2+2 and all 3+2, and is not rammed up hard against the wall.

It's upright, but supportive. Though I admit the ScotRail tapered cushion is even better.

It's quite hard, but no harder than the office chair I've sat in all day.

Because it tapers in at the top, it doesn't feel claustrophobic, nor block the window view.

Why do people hate them so much?

Too hard and too upright. The hardness also accentuates the known issue of Electrostar rough riding - particularly if one sits over the bogies. I also find myself gradually sliding forwards, which is also something I find happens on the VTEC Mk4s. With the ironing boards I tend to have to use my work bag as a footrest, which is not practicable if there's someone sitting opposite.

Finally the unpleasant experience is completed by whenever the train jolts one's elbow is shunted into the armrests, especially the one by the window which is fixed down and thus the issue can't be resolved by raising it. Oh and the armrests are a little too high too.

(The armrest issue also happens on earlier variants of Electrostars, to be fair).

As for the ironing boards, a little less hard and a little less upright and they'd be okay.

Many other designs of seat also have a footrest where one can rest feet opposite. I don't know if this is intentional or not, but on the Networker seats for example the seat support frame below the cushions for the seat in front or opposite acts as a perfect footrest. The ironing boards don't have this at all, which for me is another drawback.

 

[JN114]

They're very good for posture

 

[bramling]

They're very good for posture

If they're so good, why do I always come off one with mild backache for the rest of the evening? Never had this from any other type of train (or car) seat.

 

[cactustwirly]

Perhaps they're a bit too hard....

I like that they are supportive, and you get a lot of legroom. Though I wish they had a bit more padding.
I'd much rather sit in one than those horrible seats in the EMT HSTs.

My favourite seat is the grammer seat in the GW HSTs which have all the advantages of the so called 'ironing boards' with a bit more padding.

 

[Bletchleyite]

My favourite seat is the grammer seat in the GW HSTs which have all the advantages of the so called 'ironing boards' with a bit more padding.

Yes, I too am a fan of those, they are my preferred UK railway seat and are also found in other parts of Europe such as the PKP FLIRTs and Railjets.

Nearly an hour on and I am still comfortable in said seat.

 

[Bletchleyite]

If they're so good, why do I always come off one with mild backache for the rest of the evening? Never had this from any other type of train (or car) seat.

The only railway seat that ever gave me backache (severe backache) was the appalling GNER single-piece cushion on which the base sloped towards the knees, which is a ludicrous piece of non-design.

 

[class387]

In the correct configuration with tables, armrests and good legroom and spacing, which the 377/7 you travelled on does have (alongside with 377/6s and 387s) they are one of my favourite seats. I like the firmness and design of the seat and the posture is very good.

Squeezed in with no legroom or other amenities like they are on the 700 though...

 

[Bletchleyite]

True. Just arriving at my namesake, backside still not numb!

FWIW, though, rubbish layouts aren't the fault of the seats. I find 1990s Chapman seating perfectly acceptable - but not in the knee-crushing Class 153 layout! And I find the IC70 a terrible seat even in the 76-seat Mk3 layout which is pretty low density by modern standards.

 

[FOH]

I like them. Far more preferable to the other 377s and the horrid 455s

 

[wls1]

I really like them, i like the support that it gives and i like the fact that they have lots of legroom. Also they make me feel that i'm extremely high up, higher than any other train in-fact.

My only small problem is that electrostars have very poor ride, especially when i trundle along not too bad track on my 357 to college its pretty bad.

 

[shredder1]

Built for accountants, not for customers, they`d have us in cattle trucks if they thought they could get away with it.

 

[Starmill]

The seat is narrowest at the part of your body where your shoulders are, and I keep banging my head on the top of them when I sit down. Also the cloth covering rather than a proper moquette is very very rough and wears badly.

 

[Welshman]

The only railway seat that ever gave me backache (severe backache) was the appalling GNER single-piece cushion on which the base sloped towards the knees, which is a ludicrous piece of non-design.

How I agree with you!

The last time I travelled out of Kings Cross to York, I ended-up with sciatica for a few days afterwards.
The first-class was no better.

 

[Hadders]

Try the ironing boards on a class 700 and you might have a different opinion.

 

[Starmill]

The only railway seat that ever gave me backache (severe backache) was the appalling GNER single-piece cushion on which the base sloped towards the knees, which is a ludicrous piece of non-design.

This isn't even slightly accurate, it's been looked into before. No more accurate than your notion that a very very hard seat base does not give some people lower back pains. Of course they might be fine for you but something in the middle is likely to be better overall.

 

[47802]

Moaning Southerners as usual, while Northerners like me find them luxurious at the side of some seats on Northern Trains.

 

[bramling]

Moaning Southerners as usual, while Northerners like me find them luxurious at the side of some seats on Northern Trains.

These are the same northerners who took such an aversion to the 319s?

 

[Bletchleyite]

This isn't even slightly accurate, as I have been over sooo many times.

It is a fact that (a) that seat gave me severe back pain, (b) the base sloped towards the wrong side, and (c) it was a single piece cushion. (All three have been solved by VTEC who have replaced them with two piece cushions).

No more accurate than your notion that a very very hard seat base does not give some people lower back pains.

I never said it didn't, though I'd debate whether they were "very very hard", they are about the same as most padded dining-table chairs and many office chairs.

 

[185143]

These are the same northerners who took such an aversion to the 319s?

I'm quite a fan of the seats on our 319s!

 

[Starmill]

It is a fact that (a) that seat gave me severe back pain, (b) the base sloped towards the wrong side, and (c) it was a single piece cushion. (All three have been solved by VTEC who have replaced them with two piece cushions).

They are (were) not single-piece, they are two pieces stiched together - and the one ones were the same as the new ones. The old ones sloped unusually, you're right, the new ones slope the same way. The difference is that the new ones are softer and have a softer moquette - which makes it even more odd that you claim to prefer hard seats.

 

[Starmill]

I never said it didn't, though I'd debate whether they were "very very hard", they are about the same as most padded dining-table chairs and many office chairs.

If you have a wooden dining chair set then yes. Would you like to see wooden train seats?

The reason the FAINSA seats are popular is because they are lower in mass and cheaper - not because anything about them is good for posture. Of course - ScotRail have spent more money on getting better ones, but that's entirely what you'd expect. The best thing about their design in my view is that they are thin, which allows better legroom.

 

[Fuzzytop]

I do in fact have a wooden dining set. The wooden bench and chairs are, however, rather comfortable. Quite unlike the awful FAINSA seating on the 387s and friends.

I really find the FAINSA seating lacks any kind of support for the lower back. I'm only in my early 20s but it gets to the point of actually hurting quite a bit - so much so that I often get off and wait until a more comfortable unit turns up, or stand by the door for the rest of the journey. If there's space, that is - the last time I took a 387 on the GN, easily half the occupants of my carriage had chosen to stand rather than take one of the (many) vacant seats.

I don't think I'm particularly picky when it comes to seating. No other railway seating causes me any bother whatsoever.

 

[185143]

I do in fact have a wooden dining set. The wooden bench and chairs are, however, rather comfortable. Quite unlike the awful FAINSA seating on the 387s and friends.

I really find the FAINSA seating lacks any kind of support for the lower back. I'm only in my early 20s but it gets to the point of actually hurting quite a bit - so much so that I often get off and wait until a more comfortable unit turns up, or stand by the door for the rest of the journey. If there's space, that is - the last time I took a 387 on the GN, easily half the occupants of my carriage had chosen to stand rather than take one of the (many) vacant seats.

I don't think I'm particularly picky when it comes to seating. No other railway seating causes me any bother whatsoever.

Because it's more comfortable than the seating I wonder...?

 

[bramling]

I do in fact have a wooden dining set. The wooden bench and chairs are, however, rather comfortable. Quite unlike the awful FAINSA seating on the 387s and friends.

I really find the FAINSA seating lacks any kind of support for the lower back. I'm only in my early 20s but it gets to the point of actually hurting quite a bit - so much so that I often get off and wait until a more comfortable unit turns up, or stand by the door for the rest of the journey. If there's space, that is - the last time I took a 387 on the GN, easily half the occupants of my carriage had chosen to stand rather than take one of the (many) vacant seats.

I don't think I'm particularly picky when it comes to seating. No other railway seating causes me any bother whatsoever.

Same with me. The only other seats I find uncomfortable are the Merseyrail Pacers, which everyone does, and some seats in Chiltern's 165s which is more to do with the slope of the seat base.

Lots of passengers can be heard commenting negatively on the GN 387s, and many can be observed shuffling around throughout the journey which is an indicator of discomfort.

 

[185143]

Same with me. The only other seats I find uncomfortable are the Merseyrail Pacers, which everyone does, and some seats in Chiltern's 165s which is more to do with the slope of the seat base.

Lots of passengers can be heard commenting negatively on the GN 387s, and many can be observed shuffling around throughout the journey which is an indicator of discomfort.

Merseyrail pacer seats don't deserve the bad rap they get in my opinion...

*waits to get lynched*

 

[bramling]

Merseyrail pacer seats don't deserve the bad rap they get in my opinion...

*waits to get lynched*

The seats are awful, the legroom is awful, they're 3+2 - and to cap it off these units can turn up on long trips like Manchester Airport to Southport or, worst of all, the Cumbrian Coast. Ironically, I find the original bus seat units perfectly okay, quite comfortable in fact.

 

[Starmill]

Oh and for future reference it is actually quicker to get the 1815 from East Croydon and change at Clapham Junction than getting the 1810 all the way

 

[Fuzzytop]

Because it's more comfortable than the seating I wonder...?

It definitely is! That said I jokingly noted to GTR that it'd be better to have no seats at all than the Fainsa stuff, and ironically received the response that they would "consider my suggestion". Though I suppose this means you can blame me when the next DfT-specced units come out with true cattle-class vans for passenger accommodation, just empty with a few grab bars?