Irun - Hendaye and border crossing formalities

[Cloud Strife]

I'm really struggling to make sense of how trains actually operated at Irun and Hendaye before the end of border controls in 1993/1995. I know/understand that trains operated something like this:

Madrid -> Hendaye -> Paris
Paris -> Irun -> Madrid

But what I can't comprehend is how this all worked. Did trains also stop at Irun (on Madrid -> Hendaye journeys) and in the other way, did they stop at Hendaye on the Paris -> Irun route?

What I also can't make sense of is how border formalities were handled. Did passengers go through border control at the changeover station for both France and Spain, or did one country do their controls 'on the move' while the country of arrival carried out checks on the platforms?

Thanks for any help with this mystery!

 

[Tester]

I'm really struggling to make sense of how trains actually operated at Irun and Hendaye before the end of border controls in 1993/1995. I know/understand that trains operated something like this:

Madrid -> Hendaye -> Paris
Paris -> Irun -> Madrid

But what I can't comprehend is how this all worked. Did trains also stop at Irun (on Madrid -> Hendaye journeys) and in the other way, did they stop at Hendaye on the Paris -> Irun route?

What I also can't make sense of is how border formalities were handled. Did passengers go through border control at the changeover station for both France and Spain, or did one country do their controls 'on the move' while the country of arrival carried out checks on the platforms?

Thanks for any help with this mystery!

Southbound:

French train ran loaded to Irun having stopped at Hendaye for local traffic.

Everyone tipped out at Irun to go through both French and Spanish border controls.

French train back to Hendaye empty and Spanish train starts from Irun.


Northbound:

Spanish train ran loaded to Hendaye having stopped at Irun for local traffic.

Everyone tipped out at Hendaye to go through both Spanish and French border controls.

Spanish train back to Irun empty and French train starts from Hendaye.


Exactly the same at Port Bou/Cerbère.

 

[rvdborgt]

Southbound:

French train ran loaded to Irun having stopped at Hendaye for local traffic.

Everyone tipped out at Irun to go through both French and Spanish border controls.

French train back to Hendaye empty and Spanish train starts from Irun.

AFAIK there were also a few through trains/carriages. How were they handled?

 

[Tester]

AFAIK there were also a few through trains/carriages. How were they handled?

There were - two ways:


1. Bogie exchange - e.g. Sud Express at Irun

After station duties, through carriages run into a gauge changing shed - vehicles jacked up (with passengers on board) and bogies detached/attached as appropriate - much shunting.


2. Talgo axle variation - e.g. Catalan Talgo at Port Bou

After station duties, the whole train passes through a completely different type of gauge changing shed at walking pace (with passengers on board), where, one axle at a time, the weight of the train is carried by a system of water lubricated ramps, and the axle unlocked, adjusted and relocked - no shunting.


I have experienced both, and in the case of the Talgo, close up. I noticed a group of people walking forward as we approached the gauge changing shed, and took the liberty of tagging along. It was some form of technical visit - and most interesting too! The carriage doors (inward opening) were open for 'our' benefit, so easy to see trackside.

 

[Bletchleyite]

Southbound:

French train ran loaded to Irun having stopped at Hendaye for local traffic.

Everyone tipped out at Irun to go through both French and Spanish border controls.

French train back to Hendaye empty and Spanish train starts from Irun.


Northbound:

Spanish train ran loaded to Hendaye having stopped at Irun for local traffic.

Everyone tipped out at Hendaye to go through both Spanish and French border controls.

Spanish train back to Irun empty and French train starts from Hendaye.


Exactly the same at Port Bou/Cerbère.

How come they did that rather than it being a two-way exchange of passengers in both directions?

 

[Cloud Strife]

@Tester Thank you very much! The local stop explains everything, as I was under the (mistaken) impression that the trains didn't stop at the 'last stop' before crossing the border.

The other interesting question: how on earth was Euskotren's local service handled in Hendaye? I've found a suggestion that the 'new' (now replaced) station building was only opened after Schengen, but in this case, did the train only reach Irun and passengers had to walk across the border?

 

[Tester]

How come they did that rather than it being a two-way exchange of passengers in both directions?

I have no idea - just how it was.

Presumably some agreement between administrations.

 

[rvdborgt]

There were - two ways:

1. Bogie exchange - e.g. Sud Express at Irun

After station duties [...]

2. Talgo axle variation - e.g. Catalan Talgo at Port Bou

After station duties [...]

And how were border controls done? On board?

 

[Tester]

@Tester Thank you very much! The local stop explains everything, as I was under the (mistaken) impression that the trains didn't stop at the 'last stop' before crossing the border.

The other interesting question: how on earth was Euskotren's local service handled in Hendaye? I've found a suggestion that the 'new' (now replaced) station building was only opened after Schengen, but in this case, did the train only reach Irun and passengers had to walk across the border?

Euskotren has served Hendaye as long as I've known (mid-70s), with a small station in the southwest corner of the main station, and a halt at the international bridge on the Spanish side.

A rather bucolic run to San Sebastian - many of the overhead 'masts' were actually tree trunks!

And how were border controls done? On board?

Nothing on board - in both cases large halls within the respective station buildings.

Arrival platform > exit country formalities > entry country formalities > departure platform (or exit to town).

 

[Sir Felix Pole]

There were (are) dedicated broad and standard gauge platforms at Hendaye and Irun respectively which helped segregate international passengers.

Euskotren has always served Hendaye - it is rather less bucolic now to San Sebastian. There are several underground sections and Amara terminus is due to be replaced by a through station. Border checks into France are still quite common owing to the refugee crisis at Hendaye on Euskotren. There are no main line services at the moment due to Basque 'Y' reconstruction.

 

[stuving]

If you are interested in the physical arrangements at Hendaye, this 2013 Alamy picture is the best I can find, and shows what I saw in 2003 (plus a few weeds). The border post was on the platform, which had a fence along the middle so passengers could be herded through the border post between trains. The fence was partly wire mesh which is hard to see.

You can also see some of this on Google earth. A standard gauge and a broad gauge track cross the bridge together to Irun (there's also the narrow gauge Euskotren line). In the picture the two near tracks were broad gauge, and there were two of these international platforms, one each side. It looks as if much of that, including the fence structure, is still there, at least in part.

 

[farci]

I found a series of pictures of the Euskotren in Hendaye showing their platforms

 

[Cloud Strife]

Euskotren has served Hendaye as long as I've known (mid-70s), with a small station in the southwest corner of the main station, and a halt at the international bridge on the Spanish side.

So, I assume passengers using Euskotren would have had to pass through border controls (in both directions) only in the Euskotren station in Hendaye? I can't find any pictures of the pre-1996 station, but I can't imagine how else it could have been done. Unless - given that the 'trainside' platforms are sealed off with a fence/gate there, could passengers have gone through border controls in the main building before going to the Euskotren station 'trainside'?

If you are interested in the physical arrangements at Hendaye, this 2013 Alamy picture is the best I can find, and shows what I saw in 2003 (plus a few weeds). The border post was on the platform, which had a fence along the middle so passengers could be herded through the border post between trains. The fence was partly wire mesh which is hard to see.

Thanks! This helps to explain how border controls would have been handled once Spain joined the EEC, as most travellers would just have needed a cursory check and it could have been carried out on the platform. It also explains why the pictures of the customs controls in Hendaye station are all quite old, as presumably the large interior rooms for border checks were no longer needed once the border became 'soft'.

 

[AndrewE]

There were - two ways:


1. Bogie exchange - e.g. Sud Express at Irun
After station duties, through carriages run into a gauge changing shed - vehicles jacked up (with passengers on board) and bogies detached/attached as appropriate - much shunting.

I have done exactly this in a couchette and don't remember "much shunting." I thought that the whole train - or significant lumps of it - were done at the same time with the coaches still coupled, just a dozen bogies swapped from under the elevated [bit of the] train. Certainly nothing like the shunting of couchettes etc at Basel at 5 a.m. when you did seem to whizz in and out of the station several times

At night the border formalities were dealt with by the couchette atttendant. At the start of your journey you gave him (I never saw a "her") your passport and a completed customs declaration form - including details of all the currencies you had and their amounts, although that might only have been for journeys into or through Switzerland.
I think the Sud express was 2 pm from Lisbon, so the crossing into Spain might have been just officials walking through the train inspecting documents.

 

[stuving]

So, I assume passengers using Euskotren would have had to pass through border controls (in both directions) only in the Euskotren station in Hendaye? I can't find any pictures of the pre-1996 station, but I can't imagine how else it could have been done. Unless - given that the 'trainside' platforms are sealed off with a fence/gate there, could passengers have gone through border controls in the main building before going to the Euskotren station 'trainside'?

Remember that what is now Euskotren was a tramway when built in 1912, and for most of its life. Border crossing formalities would have been much the same as for someone walking across the road bridge. Here is another library picture, from a post card datemarked 1959. I think the border posts for tram passengers would be at the stations on each side, much where they are now.

Can anyone explain why the main stop for cars seems to be made on exiting France or Spain, not as I'd expect on entry?

 

[Cricketer8for9]

And how were border controls done? On board?

Yes. My passport was collected in France and returned to me in Spain. Not without some consternation on my part: the other couchette passengers reassured me this was normal.

 

[Tester]

So, I assume passengers using Euskotren would have had to pass through border controls (in both directions) only in the Euskotren station in Hendaye? I can't find any pictures of the pre-1996 station, but I can't imagine how else it could have been done. Unless - given that the 'trainside' platforms are sealed off with a fence/gate there, could passengers have gone through border controls in the main building before going to the Euskotren station 'trainside'?

Yes, on Euskotren all border formalities occurred at Hendaye station.

 

[Bletchleyite]

Yes. My passport was collected in France and returned to me in Spain. Not without some consternation on my part: the other couchette passengers reassured me this was normal.

I've experienced this too, it was indeed the norm. You'd give the couchette/sleeper attendant your passport and tickets for any overnight checks and they'd return them in the morning.

(Similarly it used to be the norm to give your passport as deposit in hotels before the days of a credit card swipe being an option)

 

[Tester]

I have done exactly this in a couchette and don't remember "much shunting." I thought that the whole train - or significant lumps of it - were done at the same time with the coaches still coupled, just a dozen bogies swapped from under the elevated [bit of the] train. Certainly nothing like the shunting of couchettes etc at Basel at 5 a.m. when you did seem to whizz in and out of the station several times

Agreed - the shunting wasn't to central European levels, but was more than the 'straight through' of the Talgo.

Whilst several carriages were bogie changed at the same time, my recollections are of more than one pass, and a fair amount of hanging around.

 

[riceuten]

I did this journey in the late 90s and mid noughties. We were due to start a holiday in San Sebastián but the cheapest flight was to Biarritz early in the morning. We arrived there and walked to the SNCF station from the airport (not actually that far) and I had in mind to catch the InterCité Nuits train to Irun and change for a Cercanias train to San Sebastián Renfe station near to where we were staying. I duly arrived at the station and asked for a single to Irun. The ticket seller said there “were no trains from here to Irun”, so I pointed out the screen over her head that showed a train to, er Irun. “OK,” she said, “there ARE trains to Irun, but I can only sell you a ticket to Hendaye - you will have to get off there and buy a ticket to Irun”. This all being too much, we decided to get ‘El Topo’ (the mole) to Amara, but not without first being unable to find the Euskotren station at Hendaye - at that time a ramshackle blue shed in the car park. We had a similar experience in Cerbère and Port Bou in the opposite direction. I was able to buy a ticket to Port Bou on SNCF, but Renfe were only able to sell me a ticket to Cerbère and no further - I had to queue for 10 minutes to purchase a ticket to Perpignan.

At the time due to some arcane arrangement, SNCF could only operate trains to Port Bou and Irun, and Renfe to Hendaye and Cerbère, but not vice versa.

So, I assume passengers using Euskotren would have had to pass through border controls (in both directions) only in the Euskotren station in Hendaye? I can't find any pictures of the pre-1996 station, but I can't imagine how else it could have been done. Unless - given that the 'trainside' platforms are sealed off with a fence/gate there, could passengers have gone through border controls in the main building before going to the Euskotren station 'trainside'?



Thanks! This helps to explain how border controls would have been handled once Spain joined the EEC, as most travellers would just have needed a cursory check and it could have been carried out on the platform. It also explains why the pictures of the customs controls in Hendaye station are all quite old, as presumably the large interior rooms for border checks were no longer needed once the border became 'soft'.

I *think* the Hendaye (or Hendaia) Euskotren station is treated as being physically part of Spain - most of the time I passed through it’s been uncontrolled (the horror!) but I’ve seen French and Spanish border police on the platform and they chose the only person of colour on the train to interrogate. Much to their chagrin, he not only had a valid (French) passport, but also a ticket!

 

[rvdborgt]

My passport was collected in France and returned to me in Spain. Not without some consternation on my part: the other couchette passengers reassured me this was normal.

I had almost forgotten that this was the norm until the recent past... of course it worked that way.

 

[Sir Felix Pole]

Agreed - the shunting wasn't to central European levels, but was more than the 'straight through' of the Talgo.

Whilst several carriages were bogie changed at the same time, my recollections are of more than one pass, and a fair amount of hanging around.

Only the couchette cars ran Paris to Lisbon and v.v. - seating passengers had to change carriages at Irun southbound or Hendaye northbound. There were also full sleeping cars Irun / Hendaye - Lisbon and v.v. plus dining car. Until the mid '70s there was even a Porto portion via the Douro Valley.

 

[Cloud Strife]

Yes, on Euskotren all border formalities occurred at Hendaye station.

Excellent, thank you very much for that! I've found that when it opened, the Puente Internacional station in Irun was divided in half, so passengers would get out of the train, go through Spanish controls and then board the train again to reach Hendaye and the French controls. Then, at some point (it's not clear exactly when, but probably after 1955 once the border reopened), there was a shuttle train operated to Hendaye. I'd guess that after the end of Franco's regime, all the controls were simply shifted to Hendaye and trains ran straight through, especially as passports stopped being stamped at some point in the early 80s and Spain geared up to join the EEC.

Can anyone explain why the main stop for cars seems to be made on exiting France or Spain, not as I'd expect on entry?

This, I can answer! So, the answer is that the photo is quite deceptive. As there was a lot of bureaucracy associated with the border in those times, all cars had to stop and clear customs and passport controls on both sides. It looked like this on the French side:


I know for sure that the customs office was located on the right side in a large building as shown below, but I'm not sure what the building is on the left side. My feeling is that the border police were probably stationed on the left side for dealing with passport formalities, and with very low levels of traffic, it wouldn't have been a problem to control everyone. I've found some hints that the Gendarmerie were stationed in the building in the left.

On the Spanish side, there was (and still is) the customs building on the right side which was right next to the Euskotren stop, so they probably just used that building for all their formalities.



Later on, when the Puente de Santiago opened, the border crossing infrastructure was located all within Spanish territory for both France and Spain. In the picture below, Spain had the booths closest to the camera, whereas France had the ones further away:



You can see a view here of how the new border crossing looked at the Puente de Santiago:



This one was upgraded further at some point, while the A-8 / A-63 crossing was also opened in the mid 70s.

 

[Austriantrain]

Nothing on board - in both cases large halls within the respective station buildings.

Arrival platform > exit country formalities > entry country formalities > departure platform (or exit to town).

Certainly not on the Paris - Madrid Talgo sleeper.

 

[Tester]

Certainly not on the Paris - Madrid Talgo sleeper.

Ah - I see the cross purposes!

My description above is of the 'station interchange' arrangements.

For the through trains, night trains were dealt with by attendant retention of passports and customs declarations, as was customary then.

Day trains checked on board at the border, again as then customary.

 

[Gordon]

The light railway to Hendaye was known as 'El Topo' and was legendary for its twisted wooden overhead poles. Re-use and recycling is not new! It was a favourite of my late Uncle who was a noted expert on Spanish secondary railways.

Here is a photo of the SEFT (topo) taken by my late uncle at Hendaye on 20 April 1969



View attachment jjw4612507.jpg

 

[peteb]

A related anecdote: in the mid-1980s my partner and I were backpacking around France on a France Vacances ticket.

We tried to get to Irun for an afternoon but were turfed off the (international) train at Hendaye ("pas de billet valable au delà ici", "ticket not valid after here") yet they couldn't or wouldn't sell us a ticket to cross the border........

So we walked across the frontier and had our passports stamped "entrada" for Spain.

After a short wander round Irun we made our way back to the border on foot and this time noone seemed interested in us, or asked for passports so we got back to Hendaye and travelled back to Bordeaux.

We later had all sorts of fun at the French border at Boulogne as we had no second entry stamp for France yet had been to Spain......