Is a Leeds to Llandudno service possible?

[Bigman]

I have seen reference before to 156’s working from Glasgow Central to Carlisle via Dumfries and then working through to Newcastle. This I understand involves a change of crews from Scotrail to Northern at Carlisle.

This got me wondering how possible it would be to operate a through Leeds – Llandudno service (1 a day), with a change of crew at Chester from Northern to TFW? I believe that this would be possible if a 158 was used. I would welcome some thoughts.

 

[RobShipway]

I have seen reference before to 156’s working from Glasgow Central to Carlisle via Dumfries and then working through to Newcastle. This I understand involves a change of crews from Scotrail to Northern at Carlisle.

This got me wondering how possible it would be to operate a through Leeds – Llandudno service (1 a day), with a change of crew at Chester from Northern to TFW? I believe that this would be possible if a 158 was used. I would welcome some thoughts.

The TFW class 158's are going to be replaced by class 197 units I believe, so since Northern already has similar class 195 units, surely it should be better to run with either class 195/197 units?

I think the problem will be though finding the paths to provide the service, if the demand is there for having a service between Llandudno and Leeds?

Another alternative would be to make it a coast to coast service, starting say at Holyhead via Chester to Leeds and on to Newcastle. You could have one service travelling to Llandudno from Newcastle, if there was say two services an hour. But that maybe more of a service for XC rather than any local TOC's.

 

[XAM2175]

Dare I ask why?

 

[Mcr Warrior]

Dare I ask why?

Someone wants to make their once-a-year holiday trip without changing trains?

 

[Whistler40145]

I'm pretty sure that you won't find many paths available from Manchester Piccadilly or Manchester Victoria to Leeds or Newcastle

 

[30907]

I'm pretty sure that you won't find many paths available from Manchester Piccadilly or Manchester Victoria to Leeds or Newcastle

I assume the OP is talking about combining/linking existing services (Leeds-Chester/Manchester-Llandudno in some permutation). There is a precedent - for a year or two (late 80s?) half the hourly York- Manchester TP went to North Wales.
However, a random 1tpd at any sensible time wouldn't fit modern interval service patterns - the Carlisle example quoted is a hangover from the 1980s or even before, and isn't particularly efficient IIRC.

 

[Bletchleyite]

Someone wants to make their once-a-year holiday trip without changing trains?

Well, I suppose the people who shouted for a direct service from Little-Rathole-on-the-Sea to Manchester Airport for their once a year bucket and spade need to get to a British destination instead this year

I don't support random once a day services. An all day quality connection is preferable.

 

[RobShipway]

I assume the OP is talking about combining/linking existing services (Leeds-Chester/Manchester-Llandudno in some permutation). There is a precedent - for a year or two (late 80s?) half the hourly York- Manchester TP went to North Wales.
However, a random 1tpd at any sensible time wouldn't fit modern interval service patterns - the Carlisle example quoted is a hangover from the 1980s or even before, and isn't particularly efficient IIRC.

Well, I suppose the people who shouted for a direct service from Little-Rathole-on-the-Sea to Manchester Airport for their once a year bucket and spade need to get to a British destination instead this year

I don't support random once a day services. An all day quality connection is preferable.

Besides, I think if there was a service as Bletchleyite says it would be better to be an all day connection and if there is say two services an hour or every two hours, then one of those would be better stopping at Llandudno Junction for Llandudno and going on to Holyhead to meet up with Ferries coming over Ireland.

 

[Bletchleyite]

Besides, I think if there was a service as Bletchleyite says it would be better to be an all day connection and if there is say two services an hour or every two hours, then one of those would be better stopping at Llandudno Junction for Llandudno and going on to Holyhead to meet up with Ferries coming over Ireland.

If TfW wasn't a thing and the Llandudno service was to be diverted to Victoria, it might actually make sense as a TPE or Northern operation. In the context of TfW being devolved, I'm not sure it does - there is the Chester to Leeds service which offers a change at a few places along the way.

Hardly anyone will use a train from Leeds to Holyhead then a ferry. They'll only use the ferry if driving; otherwise, the sensible way to get from Leeds to Ireland is a flight from Manchester.

 

[RobShipway]

If TfW wasn't a thing and the Llandudno service was to be diverted to Victoria, it might actually make sense as a TPE or Northern operation. In the context of TfW being devolved, I'm not sure it does - there is the Chester to Leeds service which offers a change at a few places along the way.

Hardly anyone will use a train from Leeds to Holyhead then a ferry. They'll only use the ferry if driving; otherwise, the sensible way to get from Leeds to Ireland is a flight from Manchester.

True. But I say the same from staying in North Wales many times over the last 20 years. Most people would be staying in caravans needing everything including the kitchen sink. There would be no way that could be carried on a train either from Newcastle or Leeds. If you want to visit an attraction outside of Llandudno, it is not easy to be using public transport these days. Back in the 1970's/1980's you had the Crosville buses L1 service that went from Chester to Holyhead stopping at all the major places along the coast including Llandudno. Now, just to get from Llandudno to Rhyl you have to change buses at least twice.

 

[Bletchleyite]

True. But I say the same from staying in North Wales many times over the last 20 years. Most people would be staying in caravans needing everything including the kitchen sink. There would be no way that could be carried on a train either from Newcastle or Leeds. If you want to visit an attraction outside of Llandudno, it is not easy to be using public transport these days. Back in the 1970's/1980's you had the Crosville buses L1 service that went from Chester to Holyhead stopping at all the major places along the coast including Llandudno. Now, just to get from Llandudno to Rhyl you have to change buses at least twice.

If you were going from Llandudno to Rhyl (goodness knows why you'd want to) why wouldn't you just go by train? Direct once an hour.

Hiring a static caravan is no different to a self catering cottage - things e.g. cookware are provided. If you own one you'll take them the first time then they are there.

 

[RobShipway]

If you were going from Llandudno to Rhyl (goodness knows why you'd want to) why wouldn't you just go by train? Direct once an hour.

Depends on where you are staying in Llandudno and where you are wanting to be in Rhyl. You maybe staying somewhere as friends of mine did the one time where it was quicker to get a bus from Llandudno to Bangor and then a bus to Rhyl then walking 3 miles to the station or waiting over an hour to get a bus into Llandudno town centre to get to the station there. I did say to them though, that the bus for Bangor I believe does go near Llandudno Junction so they could have got a train from there to Rhyl. When they looked at doing that, it was cheaper to take the bus!

 

[Mag_seven]

A reminder that the topic of this thread is Is a Leeds to Llandudno service possible?

If anyone wants to discuss anything else then they are welcome to start a new thread elsewhere.

Thanks

 

[HST43257]

Leeds to Llandudno is an interesting one for me

Combining the 1tph Leeds to Chester, 1tph Leeds to Manchester and the 1tph Manchester to Llandudno to create a 2tph Leeds to Llandudno service. Avoiding the problems of Castlefield, which I see as a + despite the loss of the Airport TfW service.

Of course no one would use it for the full service, but the journeys in between like (random examples) Rochdale to Rhyl or Pudsey to Prestatyn may be wanted, and it creates an overall better frequency. I view Cross Manchester connections as very important.

 

[krus_aragon]

Now, just to get from Llandudno to Rhyl you have to change buses at least twice.

Point of order: the frequent No. 12 service runs direct from Llandudno to Rhyl: six buses an hour, pandemic notwithstanding.

Bangor to Chester would, for example, require at least two bus changes (discounting Holywell, where the route number changes but you can stay sat on the same bus). But Bangor to Chester is definitely a journey where rail is preferable, unless you're time-rich/money-poor and want to see how far you can get on a DaySaver bus ticket.

 

[Neptune]

Is this another solution looking for a problem? Is the market for Calder Valley to North Wales much higher than the market from North Wales to Manchester Airport bearing in mind the service to/from North Wales will now be on the other side of Manchester?

Also bear in mind the current service will be operated by Castlefield friendly units in the not too distant future.

I can’t say I’ve checked many tickets on the Calder Valley for destinations in North Wales over the last 20 odd years. I suspect those coming from North Wales would rather have a direct service to their nearest international airport than to Rochdale or Halifax.

Im not at all convinced by this suggestion whatsoever. It just seems like a direct service for a small market for the sake of it.