Is being a driver really that good ?

[Geargrinder]

Hello to all Railforums users. I have recently applied for a trainee driver job (with Northern). Having searched this site there is lots of great info on the role and assessment procedure. It looks like a lot of hopeful wannabe's (like me) look through rose tinted glasses and only see the good bits. My questions to drivers & trainees are; What's it really like ? How much do the shifts, weekends affect your family life ? Can you get days off at fairly short notice or are you a slave to the job ? Or is it really the fantastic career it appears, hence the thousands of applicants ?

Cheers all.

 

[DistrictDriver]

Like all jobs, there are good bits and bad bits.
Mostly good in my experience but the bad bits are things like suicides or train failures when you can go into panic mode if you're not careful!

With regards to shift work, when you start off, you usually start off on the bottom link which means a lot of crappy jobs, but once you're comfortable where you are, I think most companies will allow you to swap duties with other drivers.
I was always loved wherever I worked because I prefer late shifts and most people hated them!

 

[mac]

I am not a driver,cannot think of anything more boring than driving along the same bit of track every day. The reason i think every man and his dog wants to be a driver is for the money,a few years ago the money was no better than anything else so folks went for other things now you can get £40000 for a 35 hour week.When things pick up will they want to be driving a train at all hours or doing a 9to5 job for same money.
It's not that many years ago you could become a driver just by asking for a job none of the testing you get now but the job is just the same.

 

[kleb15]

Part of me agrees with Mac, I think a lot of is down to money, i have family in Canada and they told me there's always jobs going there for train drivers cos nobody's that bothered about wanting to do it over there, the pay is actually better than here too over there, but a lot of the jobs are in eskimo areas, and clearly not many people want to uproot and move there for £53000 a year. But ye i only think its so popular here cos of the wage, i mean its around the double the national average wage here, so thats pretty good for what you have to do. My dads cousin works for Northern too, he enjoys it, but he said its like everything else the novelty wears off, and driving the same routes just get boring. Main reason I want this job is for the money I think, also it would be a lot more mentally stimulatiing than my current job, so thats another plus point.

 

[pendolino]

Good bits:

• well paid
• plenty of time off
• working alone (which suits a lot of people)
• generally left to get on with it - no manager breathing down your neck as long as you keep your nose clean
• overtime available if you want it
• no requirement to work overtime if you don't want it
• free/reduced rate travel for yourself and family
• strong unions
• generally good job security (even if the franchise holder changes) unless you have too many safety of the line incidents, or are dishonest, or wilfully break rules
• someone else makes a lot of the decisions - you just get on and do what you're told
• the regular shift pattern allows you to plan your life well in advance
• good camerarderie amongst drivers (mostly)

The bad bits:

• not being able to take leave when you necessarily want to - ad hoc leave tends to be limited and can be 'first come first served'; rostered leave is taken when you're told to take it unless you can arrange a mutual swap
• the shifts can be tiring (not so much the length of shift, but the getting up/going to bed at stupid o'clock)
• working alone (it doesn't suit everyone)
• the work can be repetitive, but rostering is supposed to take this into account as boredom/pre-conditioning is a factor in many safety incidents. Of course, if you get that bored you can transfer to another depot or go and work for another TOC; there are (possibly limited) opportunities for learning new routes/traction as you progress through the links depending on the TOC/depot
• career progression can be limited unless you're prepared to take a pay cut - many management positions pay less than the driving grade
• the effect on family/social life - being at work when your mates/family are going out, or being on a rest day when your mates/family are at work

There's probably more to add to either list. But most drivers stay in the grade for many years so, on balance, it can't be too bad a job.

 

[RJ]

Hello to all Railforums users. I have recently applied for a trainee driver job (with Northern). Having searched this site there is lots of great info on the role and assessment procedure. It looks like a lot of hopeful wannabe's (like me) look through rose tinted glasses and only see the good bits. My questions to drivers & trainees are; What's it really like ? How much do the shifts, weekends affect your family life ? Can you get days off at fairly short notice or are you a slave to the job ? Or is it really the fantastic career it appears, hence the thousands of applicants ?

Cheers all.

IMO any job which pays over £40k for a 35 hour week not requiring any special qualifcations or experience to apply is always going to be well sought after. I've spoken to people who have been put off applying for a train driver job because a £25k salary has been shown on the advertisement.

Some people do just do it for the money and fair play to them, so long as whoever is in the job is competent enough to do it well then motive isn't an issue.

 

[W230]

My questions to drivers & trainees are; What's it really like ? How much do the shifts, weekends affect your family life ? Can you get days off at fairly short notice or are you a slave to the job ? Or is it really the fantastic career it appears, hence the thousands of applicants ?

I'm currently a trainee and can't really add much more to the points put forward by pendolino who pretty much sums up all the good and bad points!

At the moment I enjoy it. I am sure with time and familiarity, like all jobs, it will become more routine. I hope I continue to enjoy it, but again with all jobs there is no guarantee of that. I worked shifts in my last job and they were far more intrusive on my family life than these are so the railway is actually an improvement. As for being a slave to the job - there are people queueing up to work rest days and any overtime going. So i'm guessing they must still like it (or at least the money!!!)

Coming to the railways as an outsider you see that there are some people who don't seem particularly happy in the grade, but most do seem happy and say they enjoy it. My biggest concern was the spending hours on my own part as i'm very sociable person but it seems at the TOC i'm at you see alot of others drivers about during the day and there are always lots coming in and out when on my break, and as already mentioned by others there is plenty of banter. I'm glad I took up the job and even if in a few years I decide it's not still the right job, I have wanted to do it for ages so am going to have a go at it!

 

[notadriver]

What do you do now Geargrinder? Do you drive for living ? It's a useful point of reference for a comparison.

 

[otomous]

For me, 3 years in, I still find there is something different about every day as a driver. There is too much to concentrate on to get bored about. Pendolino's list of disadvantages and advatages is spot on but everyone is different. Maybe because I spent 16 years getting bored and frustrated at a desk I still pinch myself when I realise I'm out there at the front of a train!

 

[E&W Lucas]

Good bits:

• well paid
• plenty of time off
• working alone (which suits a lot of people)
• generally left to get on with it - no manager breathing down your neck as long as you keep your nose clean
• overtime available if you want it
• no requirement to work overtime if you don't want it
• free/reduced rate travel for yourself and family
• strong unions
• generally good job security (even if the franchise holder changes) unless you have too many safety of the line incidents, or are dishonest, or wilfully break rules
• someone else makes a lot of the decisions - you just get on and do what you're told
• the regular shift pattern allows you to plan your life well in advance
• good camerarderie amongst drivers (mostly)

The bad bits:

• not being able to take leave when you necessarily want to - ad hoc leave tends to be limited and can be 'first come first served'; rostered leave is taken when you're told to take it unless you can arrange a mutual swap
• the shifts can be tiring (not so much the length of shift, but the getting up/going to bed at stupid o'clock)
• working alone (it doesn't suit everyone)
• the work can be repetitive, but rostering is supposed to take this into account as boredom/pre-conditioning is a factor in many safety incidents. Of course, if you get that bored you can transfer to another depot or go and work for another TOC; there are (possibly limited) opportunities for learning new routes/traction as you progress through the links depending on the TOC/depot
• career progression can be limited unless you're prepared to take a pay cut - many management positions pay less than the driving grade
• the effect on family/social life - being at work when your mates/family are going out, or being on a rest day when your mates/family are at work

There's probably more to add to either list. But most drivers stay in the grade for many years so, on balance, it can't be too bad a job.

This is an excellent post!

My personal answer. I love the job!
The best thing I have ever done. Less emotively, it's a good, secure income, which means I can provide well for my young family. I've done fancy "graduate" jobs, and frankly, you can keep them. I'll stick to watching green lights go by!

To be a driver, you've got to be of the mindset that you will do it right, every time, without fail, no matter how bored you are. If that's you, then there is an excellent future out there, waiting for you.

 

[Geargrinder]

Thanks to everyone for their posts so far. The answers are exactly what I was looking for. I know I'm ok with shift work and any potential monotony. What concerned me was the level the TOCs might interfere with any family/social life by demanding overtime, rest day working and making it difficult to get a day off if you need it. All I've got to do now is survive the recruitment process !

 

[GB]

Shift work is one thing, train crew shift work is a whole different story.

At our place we have...

0410-1105
1000-2100
2033-0800
1045-1845
1815-0508
0725-1617
0312-0958
0600-1800
1800-0600
1636-0340
2100-0400
0635-1550
1100-1700
2359-0600
2359-0950

We can end up doing 4 or 5 different shift patterns a week!

This is a FOC so perhaps not quite as bad on a TOC?

 

[E&W Lucas]

Thanks to everyone for their posts so far. The answers are exactly what I was looking for. I know I'm ok with shift work and any potential monotony. What concerned me was the level the TOCs might interfere with any family/social life by demanding overtime, rest day working and making it difficult to get a day off if you need it. All I've got to do now is survive the recruitment process !

You've got to be very organised. Your rest days are rostered, and whilst you know what they are a significant time in advance, they are inflexible. Obtaining leave, especially during school holidays, can be difficult.

It's not a job, but a whole lifestyle!

 

[Beveridges]

This is a FOC so perhaps not quite as bad on a TOC?

Nowhere near as bad with a TOC as a FOC, but still not good. The worst drivers roster I've seen with a TOC has 0300 & 0400 starts, and then with late turns finishing later than 0200, and a few night turns thrown in as well (like 2000-0600). Obviously those were the most extreme turns, there was everything inbetween as well. The best drivers roster I've seen has only 1 shift that starts before 0530 (out of 30+ lines) and nothing that finishes after 0030. I've seen guards rosters that are better still.
However some drivers/guards have been lucky enough to arrange a permenant swap for permenant lates, and others work permenant earlies, so if you can get a permenant swap, then the train crew shifts are nowhere near as bad as traditional shifts.
There is also the option of permenant nights in the form of depot driving. Some hate nights but at least you are always done for 0600 or 0700 and never have to get up early and never have to attempt to change your sleep pattern every week.
So the question of whether train crew shifts are worse than traditional shifts really depends on where you are based, and if the options for swapping exist.
Of cause the worst rosters of the lot will be with freight. I could tell that DRS rostered turns were hell when I looked into the trainmen jobs back in Dec 2009. Which is a shame really as freight work sounds a lot more interesting than passenger work, but the shifts just put me off from ever going there.

 

[E&W Lucas]

The best drivers roster I've seen has only 1 shift that starts before 0530 (out of 30+ lines) and nothing that finishes after 0030.

That sounds like a London depot. Easier hours, but you've got to be able to get to/ from work.

 

[Geargrinder]

Looking at the timetables I guess there are a lot of early starts with Northern, although there must also be start times spread over the day to cover everything. As I recently didn't get through the TPE application it would make me feel better if TPE shifts were worse than Northern

 

[Mintona]

I've only been driving on my own for a week so obviously it is all new to me at the moment and I haven't had time to get bored yet. I'm forever finding new things out about my routes, and I suspect that if I'm here in 30 years I'll still be finding new things out! Compared to train dispatch which I have done previously, it isn't monotonous at all, as there is so much to concentrate on.

And as I'm based in London if I do want a new challenge maybe 10/20/30 years in the future there are plenty of other depots and companies who will need train drivers!

 

[Beveridges]

Looking at the timetables I guess there are a lot of early starts with Northern, although there must also be start times spread over the day to cover everything. As I recently didn't get through the TPE application it would make me feel better if TPE shifts were worse than Northern

The first trains in passenger timetables are not the same as book on times. The train time is nowhere near the time the driver would start his shift in some cases. Add the time to book on, get a taxi to the maintenance depot, prep train (If necessary), await permission to exit depot from the DP/Signaller, run ECS to wherever the train starts from, then maybe the train can sit in the station for another good half an hour before its due out. You can be talking about booking on 2-3 hours or more before the first train with passengers is driven, in some cases. Of cause, some locations (usually small depots) Like Wigan or Buxton will not require drivers to go to a maintenance depot at the start of the day, so earliest start times are more similar to the time of the first passenger train, with perhaps the odd exception

 

[Silv1983]

Looking at the timetables I guess there are a lot of early starts with Northern, although there must also be start times spread over the day to cover everything. As I recently didn't get through the TPE application it would make me feel better if TPE shifts were worse than Northern

This might help:

Sundays aren't part of the working week for Northern - whereas with TPE they are. So when you are rostered to work the odd sunday the extra $$ all adds up and it makes the salaries more comparable. If you opt to work more sundays than you're rostered - the salary can quickly surpass that of TPE.

Also, despite only being an employee of Northern for just over a week - it's patently clear that they are an excellent company and look after their staff.

 

[Geargrinder]

Thanks again guys, these replies answer a lot of my questions. Beveridges - Thanks for the insight into depot driving, sounds like its pretty good and might be more up my street than Mainline.
I currently work as an HGV driver and am away all week, but home at weekends. Its unsociable but I still get weekends at home with the family which is great. The big change for me will be working some weekends. I know every TOC, and probably every depot, works differently but on average what percentage of weekends do passenger drivers generally get rostered. Although Northern pay overtime for Sundays would their rosters generally require less Sunday working than, say, Transpennine Express who have it as a normal duty day ? Cheers

 

[Silv1983]

Thanks again guys, these replies answer a lot of my questions. Beveridges - Thanks for the insight into depot driving, sounds like its pretty good and might be more up my street than Mainline.
I currently work as an HGV driver and am away all week, but home at weekends. Its unsociable but I still get weekends at home with the family which is great. The big change for me will be working some weekends. I know every TOC, and probably every depot, works differently but on average what percentage of weekends do passenger drivers generally get rostered. Although Northern pay overtime for Sundays would their rosters generally require less Sunday working than, say, Transpennine Express who have it as a normal duty day ? Cheers

I can't comment on TPE but I imagine with only 90 odd drivers they have to do their fair share each. I've had a good look at the Northern Links but maybe a veteran driver could clarify/add more... but - presently the starting link (or shift pattern as referred to in other jobs) shows that each Northern driver does a sunday once every 6 weeks I think. However, if you don't want to do it someone else will bite your hand off.
That leaves Fridays and Saturdays - of which you will work 2 out of every 3. One will most likely be an early turn, and the other a late. The 3rd you will get off as part of a long weekend.
The way I see it is... I can have any Sunday I want to have a roast with the family, and the early turn saturday leaves me free to spend the afternoon/night with friends family etc. Not too shabby.

 

[Geargrinder]

I can't comment on TPE but I imagine with only 90 odd drivers they have to do their fair share each. I've had a good look at the Northern Links but maybe a veteran driver could clarify/add more... but - presently the starting link (or shift pattern as referred to in other jobs) shows that each Northern driver does a sunday once every 6 weeks I think. However, if you don't want to do it someone else will bite your hand off.
That leaves Fridays and Saturdays - of which you will work 2 out of every 3. One will most likely be an early turn, and the other a late. The 3rd you will get off as part of a long weekend.
The way I see it is... I can have any Sunday I want to have a roast with the family, and the early turn saturday leaves me free to spend the afternoon/night with friends family etc. Not too shabby.

Thanks for that Silv. Its not too shabby at all. I suppose the companies, like TPE, who include sunday as a normal day bought the overtime out.

 

[notadriver]

Thanks again guys, these replies answer a lot of my questions. Beveridges - Thanks for the insight into depot driving, sounds like its pretty good and might be more up my street than Mainline.

Shunt drivers are not regarded as main line drivers in some quarters. It's not the same as a HGV shunter who (may) has an HGV licence and can easily switch to driving on the roads if he/she wanted.

 

[Geargrinder]

Shunt drivers are not regarded as main line drivers in some quarters. It's not the same as a HGV shunter who (may) has an HGV licence and can easily switch to driving on the roads if he/she wanted.

Yes, but I know HGV shunters who choose it for the lifestyle improvements of regular hours, not late off, etc etc for not much less pay, and most started on the road and moved into the depot...

This comes to the point of my question - I have seen people whose dream job was HGV driving only to find the reality is nothing likes the clips of Eddie Stobart and Ice Road Truckers they've seen on TV.
I have a friend whose dream was to be a police officer. He applied for every job going, became an expert at the recruitment process, then relocated his family on the premise of better pay, job satisfaction, good pension, loads of time off (the list goes on). The reality for him has been constantly late off, rest days cancelled, shift changes, crappy duties, changes to working conditions&regs and he is now looking at coming back as an HGV driver !