Is EMR Weekend First still available?

[WesternLancer]

Hi - thread title says it all really.

EMR website no longer seems to mention it (but does now have a dedicated page with some fair old detail on setfrog upgrade bidding) - all very well but I'm not bothered with that (no smart phone) so just want to use good old fashioned Weekend First.

I can't find it listed on BR fares either (but I don't think all w/e 1st are listed there?)

So does anyone know if it is still available to buy on board (or at all) on sats / suns / b hols, and what price is it?

I think last time I used it it may have been £12 IIRC.

Thanks in advance.

 

[Scott1]

Still available for the foreseeable as far as I'm aware, though I'd imagine it will be reviewed when the new fleet comes. There was a plan to change first class to a full 7 day services, but it was put on the back burner for Covid and seems to have been quietly shelved.

 

[_toommm_]

Seatfrog is still available, although I haven’t travelled on that route since the HSTs left so not sure if it’s available at Weekends.

 

[WesternLancer]

Seatfrog is still available, although I haven’t travelled on that route since the HSTs left so not sure if it’s available at Weekends.

Thanks - I can indeed see that Seatfrog is available - but I want to know if Weekend First still is.

There was a plan to change first class to a full 7 day services, but it was put on the back burner for Covid and seems to have been quietly shelved.

Thanks, sounds promising - however, what do you mean by "a full 7 days service?" There are 1st class seats on the intercity trains on every day of the week for which a 1st class ticket or an upgrade is required - excepting the Corby EMUs of course. Sunday has a revised or no complimentary food offer on the inter city route but I'm not much bothered by their free food offer as now the hot food has gone on every day the free food is not of much quality in my view - subjective opinion of course - in any case.

My question is can you take an unreserved 1st class seat at weekends with a std ticket and pay the train manager the upgrade fee in cash or by card on ticket check still (aka 'Weekend First')?

 

[hexagon789]

Thanks - I can indeed see that Seatfrog is available - but I want to know if Weekend First still is.


Thanks, sounds promising - however, what do you mean by "a full 7 days service?" There are 1st class seats on the intercity trains on every day of the week for which a 1st class ticket or an upgrade is required - excepting the Corby EMUs of course. Sunday has a revised or no complimentary food offer on the inter city route but I'm not much bothered by their free food offer as now the hot food has gone on every day the free food is not of much quality in my view - subjective opinion of course - in any case.

My question is can you take an unreserved 1st class seat at weekends with a std ticket and pay the train manager the upgrade fee in cash or by card on ticket check still (aka 'Weekend First')?

The upgrade is still mentioned on their website: https://www.eastmidlandsrailway.co.uk/trains-stations/on-board-the-train/standard-class

First Class upgrades

If you’re travelling in Standard Class at the weekends you can upgrade to First Class for just £12 each way. You’ll enjoy benefits such as larger seats, refreshments (available from the buffet bar when you show your First Class ticket) and quieter carriages.

You can buy your First Class upgrade on the train. Just ask a member of our on-board staff. The £12 upgrade is subject to availability and isn't available if you’re travelling on an Advance ticket.

 

[BJames]

@WesternLancer It was announced on the train a few weeks back by the TM. And also see above ^ I believe it is still available.

As for the offering - I travelled first on Sunday and got free water, hot chocolate, biscuits and crisps. Not too bad considering I really wanted it for the peace and comfort as we were diverted via Corby and it was a really good advance deal.

 

[Scott1]

Thanks - I can indeed see that Seatfrog is available - but I want to know if Weekend First still is.


Thanks, sounds promising - however, what do you mean by "a full 7 days service?" There are 1st class seats on the intercity trains on every day of the week for which a 1st class ticket or an upgrade is required - excepting the Corby EMUs of course. Sunday has a revised or no complimentary food offer on the inter city route but I'm not much bothered by their free food offer as now the hot food has gone on every day the free food is not of much quality in my view - subjective opinion of course - in any case.

My question is can you take an unreserved 1st class seat at weekends with a std ticket and pay the train manager the upgrade fee in cash or by card on ticket check still (aka 'Weekend First')?

Yep just sit down and they'll come to you. You can't do the upgrade at the station, it needs to be done on the train. The only condition is there is unreserved space available.

The plan was for the service to be the same on a Sunday as a Tuesday, but from what I've heard it's gone rather quiet. As things stand on weekends you may get an at seat service, or need to walk to the buffet bar and there is no meal service on most trains, hence the weekend proce.

 

[BJames]

Yep just sit down and they'll come to you. You can't do the upgrade at the station, it needs to be done on the train. The only condition is there is unreserved space available.

The plan was for the service to be the same on a Sunday as a Tuesday, but from what I've heard it's gone rather quiet. As things stand on weekends you may get an at seat service, or need to walk to the buffet bar and there is no meal service on most trains, hence the weekend proce.

The buffet bar hasn't been open on any of the EMR Intercity trains I've taken between London and Nottingham since before the pandemic. I was very much under the impression that the buffet bar isn't in operation any more, and that it's trolley service and first class at-seat service. I do remember having to go to the buffet bar before the pandemic for my free first class bits on the one first class journey I took then.

 

[Kite159]

I see they have gone down the XC route in not allowing passengers holding advance tickets to upgrade. Bit of extra money for nothing assuming First Class is carrying around mostly fresh air (especially on the 7 coach units).

I would imagine most of the guards will ignore that restriction and still sell a passenger the £12 upgrade

 

[BJames]

I see they have gone down the XC route in not allowing passengers holding advance tickets to upgrade. Bit of extra money for nothing assuming First Class is carrying around mostly fresh air (especially on the 7 coach units).

I would imagine most of the guards will ignore that restriction and still sell a passenger the £12 upgrade

The announcement I heard didn't mention such restriction so I imagine it would be sold anyway, at least I hope so. There's varied loadings in EMR first in my experience - have been the only one in First on a 4 car unit before, and on a 7 car unit last week I was the only one in the leading carriage but there were a few more people in the other two coaches. But I've had a full 180 first class before at 20:05 from St Pancras back to Nottingham.

Far less 7 coach units about now too of course, but in general you're right, and certainly at the weekends, that it's unnecessary for EMR not to just sell this upgrade to anyone who wants it.

 

[WesternLancer]

The upgrade is still mentioned on their website: https://www.eastmidlandsrailway.co.uk/trains-stations/on-board-the-train/standard-class

Thanks - I didn't think to look on the std calss entry - and Mr Google didn't find that for me. Seems clear tho.

Yep just sit down and they'll come to you. You can't do the upgrade at the station, it needs to be done on the train. The only condition is there is unreserved space available.

The plan was for the service to be the same on a Sunday as a Tuesday, but from what I've heard it's gone rather quiet. As things stand on weekends you may get an at seat service, or need to walk to the buffet bar and there is no meal service on most trains, hence the weekend proce.

Thanks - that process remains as before then I think from memory.

The buffet bar hasn't been open on any of the EMR Intercity trains I've taken between London and Nottingham since before the pandemic. I was very much under the impression that the buffet bar isn't in operation any more, and that it's trolley service and first class at-seat service. I do remember having to go to the buffet bar before the pandemic for my free first class bits on the one first class journey I took then.

I agree. Looks like web site text not updated for quite soem time!

I see they have gone down the XC route in not allowing passengers holding advance tickets to upgrade. Bit of extra money for nothing assuming First Class is carrying around mostly fresh air (especially on the 7 coach units).

I would imagine most of the guards will ignore that restriction and still sell a passenger the £12 upgrade

Indeed - I have asked for it with an Advance Std ticket and guards been happy to make the sale. That was in HST days.

 

[yorkie]

Does anyone know the current situation?

The website still has it:

Standard Class | EMR

Our Standard Class tickets provide everything you need for an enjoyable journey, at affordable prices.

www.eastmidlandsrailway.co.uk

If you’re travelling in Standard Class at the weekends you can upgrade to First Class for just £12 each way. You’ll enjoy benefits such as larger seats, refreshments (available from the buffet bar when you show your First Class ticket) and quieter carriages.

You can buy your First Class upgrade on the train. Just ask a member of our on-board staff. The £12 upgrade is subject to availability.

Edit: a lady at the St Pancras gateline confirmed it is still available.

 

[SirAlf]

Used it yesterday on the 20:02 from St Pancras, just paid £12 on the train. Only available to people with flexible tickets though so no good if you’ve got an Advance. Got coffee, biscuits, choc brownies and an egg & bacon sandwich.

 

[WesternLancer]

Used it yesterday on the 20:02 from St Pancras, just paid £12 on the train. Only available to people with flexible tickets though so no good if you’ve got an Advance. Got coffee, biscuits, choc brownies and an egg & bacon sandwich.

In my case I have been permitted to use it with a Std class Advance ticket - tho that was some time back. Staff member was happy to take the supplement on that occasion. I guess it may vary depending on how busy they think they will be.

 

[ainsworth74]

Used it yesterday on the 20:02 from St Pancras, just paid £12 on the train. Only available to people with flexible tickets though so no good if you’ve got an Advance. Got coffee, biscuits, choc brownies and an egg & bacon sandwich.

Which would be the same bizarre policy as XC. I can see an argument to giving priority to flexible ticket holders but it seems crackers to turn down extra money...

 

[CyrusWuff]

Which would be the same bizarre policy as XC. I can see an argument to giving priority to flexible ticket holders but it seems crackers to turn down extra money...

The argument for not allowing Weekend First with an Advance is typically that you should have booked a First Class Advance to start with.

From a purely commercial point of view it makes sense, as it likely represents a loss of revenue to the TOC given the earnings from a Standard Advance plus an upgrade will almost certainly be lower than that from a Standard Advance (bought by another passenger) plus a First Class Advance (that you've bought.)

From a passenger point of view, on the other hand, it's bonkers that they'd refuse what (from your point of view) amounts to free money.

 

[Robbouk]

This morning they were offering it and didn't mention anything about it not being available to advance standard ticket holders, but then it was a 7 carriage service and it wasn't very busy in 1st (in my carriage anyway). Perhaps it does depend on how busy they are as to who it's offered to.

 

[Alex C.]

Which would be the same bizarre policy as XC. I can see an argument to giving priority to flexible ticket holders but it seems crackers to turn down extra money...

Do XC still offer weekend first diretly? I travelled with them for the first time in a long time recently and couldn't find mention of anything other than SeatFrog on their website (which wasn't bad, £13 for two of us to upgrade)

 

[WesternLancer]

Do XC still offer weekend first diretly? I travelled with them for the first time in a long time recently and couldn't find mention of anything other than SeatFrog on their website (which wasn't bad, £13 for two of us to upgrade)

I used it last year to sample XC HST services - just asked for it when my ticket was checked and the guard was happy to let me pay - one supplement for the full trip even tho I had split tickets for a midlands to plymouth day return trip. I wasn't using an Advance ticket but in terms of w/e 1st being offered, it was. I don't think it was announced, despite their being plenty of capacity that day.

 

[800Travel]

I used it last year to sample XC HST services - just asked for it when my ticket was checked and the guard was happy to let me pay - one supplement for the full trip even tho I had split tickets for a midlands to plymouth day return trip. I wasn't using an Advance ticket but in terms of w/e 1st being offered, it was. I don't think it was announced, despite their being plenty of capacity that day.

Do you need to try to find the guard, or is it pretty much a case of you go to first class, find an available seat, and then you should ask the first staff member who comes round re the supplement? I.e. I'm wondering if on short journeys, if no one comes around who you could ask, it could be a free upgrade, but I struggle to believe that's right as it would be a point of revenue loss.

 

[WesternLancer]

Do you need to try to find the guard, or is it pretty much a case of you go to first class, find an available seat, and then you should ask the first staff member who comes round re the supplement? I.e. I'm wondering if on short journeys, if no one comes around who you could ask, it could be a free upgrade, but I struggle to believe that's right as it would be a point of revenue loss.

You sit down and wait till they come round basically - and the trolley person comes 1st and asks to see your ticket before giving you any free stuff - it's at this point that I show my ticket and say I'd like to pay for w/end 1st. trolley person usually says they will let the train manager know, who comes along later to take payment, whilst serving the free stuff without waiting for the payment to be taken by the train manager

 

[Haywain]

you go to first class, find an available seat, and then you should ask the first staff member who comes round re the supplement?

In my experience you will often be lucky to be given the opportunity to sit down before your ticket is checked in EMR first class.

 

[800Travel]

In my experience you will often be lucky to be given the opportunity to sit down before your ticket is checked in EMR first class.

If on a short journey though no one came round, would you need to find a staff member to pay at the other end - or seek out the guard? Or would you just leave at that stage?

 

[yorkie]

Simply take a seat, and if/when asked for your ticket, say "I'd like to upgrade please", or words to that effect. The person who inspects your ticket may not be in a position to charge you, so may inform the Guard of your request.

If no-one takes your money, then there is no debt due.

 

[STINT47]

A word of warning if you take a seat in first class without speaking to staff first or making payment you could get a penalty fare.

I've seen revenue officers issuing a penalty to a gentleman traveling in first on a standard ticket. When he asked to upgrade they informed him that this has to be paid for before sitting down.

 

[yorkie]

A word of warning if you take a seat in first class without speaking to staff first or making payment you could get a penalty fare.

On operators who don't advertise upgrades being available, maybe. But not on TOCs such as LNER, EMR etc.

I've seen revenue officers issuing a penalty to a gentleman traveling in first on a standard ticket. When he asked to upgrade they informed him that this has to be paid for before sitting down.

On EMR? When did this take place? What ticket did the passenger hold exactly, and what day of the week was it?

If it was a Season ticket holder on a weekday, that would be rather different to a Single or Return ticket holder, especially at weekends, where upgrades are advertised as being available.

Also, seeing revenue officers acting in a certain way does not guarantee their actions are correct/appropriate.

 

[LowLevel]

A word of warning if you take a seat in first class without speaking to staff first or making payment you could get a penalty fare.

I've seen revenue officers issuing a penalty to a gentleman traveling in first on a standard ticket. When he asked to upgrade they informed him that this has to be paid for before sitting down.

That's not EMR policy, upgrades are always available from the train manager via the host provided there's space.

Standard method of operation for hosts to be professional is to ask any standard ticket holders in first class "are you wanting to upgrade?" as an opening gambit rather than make the abrupt "this is first class!" type comment.

 

[WesternLancer]

Standard method of operation for hosts to be professional is to ask any standard ticket holders in first class "are you wanting to upgrade?" as an opening gambit rather than make the abrupt "this is first class!" type comment.

This is indeed my experience - albeit for courtesy I try to let the host know I want to upgrade as I hand my ticket over, so they know my intention (this is for w/e 1st). ON the very rare occasions I 've done it on a weekday - not recently so under previous operators - I've either paid an excess at ticket office before boarding or would speak to the guard / Train manager before taking a seat.

The query was if it was short journey - so I guess an example might be eg Long Eaton to Derby perhaps (or Nottingham to Beeston or East Mids Parkway). I suspect it would be v rare for anyone to want to pay the w/e 1st for such a short hop so it might arouse suspicion, but I'd expect the payment to be taken on the basis it was the 'fare due'.

 

[sprunt]

From a purely commercial point of view it makes sense, as it likely represents a loss of revenue to the TOC given the earnings from a Standard Advance plus an upgrade will almost certainly be lower than that from a Standard Advance (bought by another passenger) plus a First Class Advance (that you've bought.)

If the difference between the Standard Advance and the First Class Advance is significantly more than £12, I would expect most of the people who are likely to buy the upgrade would just buy the Standard Advance and sit in Standard, in which case the TOC (or the DfT, as they're now passing the money on to them) may as well get the £12.

 

[yorkie]

If the difference between the Standard Advance and the First Class Advance is significantly more than £12, I would expect most of the people who are likely to buy the upgrade would just buy the Standard Advance and sit in Standard, in which case the TOC (or the DfT, as they're now passing the money on to them) may as well get the £12.

It can see why the company chooses for the official policy to be only walk-up holders, but in practice, if there is space available, it doesn't make sense for the Guard to turn down £12. In my experience, while booking office clerks are often rigid in their interpretation of rules, Guards are - in general - usually very pragmatic. There'll always be exceptions, of course!

I had a very good experience last weekend and the upgrade was absolutely well worth it when I travelled. I think the Guard's ticket machine was inoperable, so I wasn't actually charged in the end, but I would have certainly have considered it good value, had I been charged £12.