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Is having a phone in the cab while a train is under ATO allowed?
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Dstock7080
Established Member
Electronic devices, switched on, except Connect radio are strictly forbidden, (until the proposed issuance of iPads)
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Apparently the person isn’t a train driver again looking at some comments so I would say no.
The knitting is allowed, at least in the sense of not being forbidden. The phone on the desk almost certainly not - certainly on the mainline you’d most likely be out of a job if you were caught doing that.
Very bad PR, and very poor judgement to do something like that while driving - let alone in full view of the public.
That’s true on the mainline, but most tube lines are ATO these days. I wonder whether the tedium of ATO makes it hard to stay alert/focussed. Not that that’s an excuse, of course.
jon81uk
Member
There was a very similar discussion last year https://www.railforums.co.uk/threads/tube-driver-filming-himself-whilst-driving.275046/
Hardly similar.
One is a fixed camera (with local management permission) whilst talking - risk based commentary driving is a recognised methodology to combat fatigue and actually improve driving.
The other is an outrage that no organisation should tolerate.
I’m really struggling to see how that’s remotely similar.
jon81uk
Member
There was nothing in the first few posts of that thread that indicated there was management permission (personally I didn't read all seven pages) and the first few replies were discussing how it probably shouldn't be happening, in a similar fashion to the first few replies in this thread. I just found the opening of both threads made me think of each other as in both cases the OP was questioning if something is allowed.
I apologise for not reading the entire thread and being more technically minded.
For the record, as a train driver (not operator) of ten years, there is no defending what was shown in the OP. In fact it makes me pretty angry.
Would I step onto a train being driven by someone doing that, or want a member of it family to? Hell no. If you treat the job with that level of disrespect you don’t deserve to have it in the first place IMO.
I don’t think it was a “he”?
Peter Mugridge
Veteran Member
The driver in question has now been sacked.
www.telegraph.co.uk
TfL sacks Tube driver for knitting and watching videos at the wheel
Northern Line driver shocks commuters by appearing distracted at Hendon Central station
www.telegraph.co.uk
It's not for me to question The Telegraph, but the speed of the Company Disciplinary process at LU is best described as 'glacial'. It would be a miracle if this process was done and dusted within 3 months.
Other than seeing the video, I have no knowledge of this situation, but I suspect the driver resigned before they were pushed.
On a wider note as a train operator on London Underground, I estimate I get videoed at least 20 times a day by tourists and enthusiasts (I mean my train gets videoed, rather than me) - virtually every platform in Central London has someone holding a phone up as I come into the platform. It is inevitable in this day and age that everything is recorded and uploaded, which is all the more reason to do your job with a high level of professionalism.
Unless if the video has been recorded a long while ago and only now news of it has surfaced, which I’m supposedly told by my railway-working friend…
Vexed
Member
I can't quote the quote, but at the end of the quote from the article in #11 it does say the incident occurred earlier in the year.
The TfL quote doesn't mention sacking, just no longer working for the company. Could be corporate speak for sacked or just a resignation.
Dstock7080
Established Member
Or depending on age of the individual, retirement.
Turtle
Member
- Joined
- 18 Mar 2013
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- 406
The poster refers to Tube drivers earning £40K which could suggest it's quite old - or the poster is ignorant of Tube driver salaries. Also, I see the Fail has now got hold of the story.
Dstock7080
Established Member
Which would make it 2008/09.
Which is pre TikToc by a long margin.
No way it can be that old based on the device shown in the cab, which is clearly a modern smart phone.
Ironic they clearly consider £40k to be a high salary for the role when it must be approaching twice that these days?!
And for the cost of living in a London suburb which is most extortionate.
Pretty much the latter, as @Vexed has pointed out the article said the incident took place earlier in the year and somewhere on the way a TikTok user transforms the clip into a bash for (the majority well-mannered) tube drivers.
DavyCrocket
Member
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- Messages
- 646
Train Operator who found it appropriate to watch videos and knit was night tube.
It’s not uncommon now to see books (non work), iPads or telephones being used whilst operating a train.
Has LU done anything to reduce this behaviour and carry out enforcement.
Even ORR found that whilst not a mobile phone, train operators at Stratford were leaning down to collect their belongings and not looking out
It’s not uncommon now to see books (non work), iPads or telephones being used whilst operating a train.
Has LU done anything to reduce this behaviour and carry out enforcement.
Even ORR found that whilst not a mobile phone, train operators at Stratford were leaning down to collect their belongings and not looking out
I bet it is uncommon, as most people in the role will be responsible, and won’t want to lose a £80k per year job for a very silly reason.
Must be going on for a fair while, as I recall watching this Video125 bonus clip of a Northern line driver reading a newspaper while driving between stations, all the way back in 1999. (See 0:41 mark)
bramling
Veteran Member
Unfortunately, the reality is that it’s very difficult to monitor what drivers are doing when in their cab between stations in tunnels.
Whilst I’m sure this has always, to some extent, gone on, TFL for their part have spent many years essentially deprofessionalising operational roles, so it probably shouldn’t be a surprise to see this sort of thing occasionally get flagged up.
Apart from the potential measure of having cameras in cabs, which is essentially a scattergun method of dealing with the issue, to address this sort of thing it’s necessary to install a highly professional culture. Recruiting the right people, training them in the right way, and mutual respect between staff and management. One just needs to look at the daft uniform TFL makes its staff wear to see the extent to which mutual respect exists.
whoosh
Established Member
- Joined
- 3 Sep 2008
- Messages
- 1,628
That Tik - Tok video...
That just undermines every other train driver in the whole world. Whether they manually drive or 'operate' under ATO.
With regard to falling standards at London Underground, I have witnessed a Train Operator in the centre window of an arriving train, with back facing the direction of travel, putting on their coat and grabbing their bag. Not good if the emergency brake plunger needed pressing.
And this was at Stratford Jubilee Line after the incident of a person falling onto the track.
There is also, presently, a video on YouTube of a Train Operator on their last day at work, which is filmed and hosted on YouTube by another Train Operator. In some ways it's nice that the person retiring is so well thought of by the YouTuber, but... oh dear... the YouTuber films from their own train at one point, and as the train goes through a crossover - there's the reflection: filmed with a mobile phone in one hand, whilst driving manually with the other hand.
I mean WHAT ON EARTH?! Posted to their own YouTube channel, so you could find out who it is if you wanted to (Management).
You have to wonder....
That just undermines every other train driver in the whole world. Whether they manually drive or 'operate' under ATO.
With regard to falling standards at London Underground, I have witnessed a Train Operator in the centre window of an arriving train, with back facing the direction of travel, putting on their coat and grabbing their bag. Not good if the emergency brake plunger needed pressing.
And this was at Stratford Jubilee Line after the incident of a person falling onto the track.
There is also, presently, a video on YouTube of a Train Operator on their last day at work, which is filmed and hosted on YouTube by another Train Operator. In some ways it's nice that the person retiring is so well thought of by the YouTuber, but... oh dear... the YouTuber films from their own train at one point, and as the train goes through a crossover - there's the reflection: filmed with a mobile phone in one hand, whilst driving manually with the other hand.
I mean WHAT ON EARTH?! Posted to their own YouTube channel, so you could find out who it is if you wanted to (Management).
You have to wonder....
I’ve seen this too at Stratford, and it has to be said it doesn’t look particularly professional.