Is it morally right to depict children’s cartoon characters in content targeted towards adults?

[PTR 444]

WARNING: If you adored Winnie the Pooh as a child, you might want to stop reading now…

A new film featuring the beloved A.A Milne children’s character has been released in cinemas, but this is no innocent tale. With Pooh now in the public domain, the film’s director, Rhys Frake-Waterfield, has reimagined the character in an adult horror storyline. There’s some more details into the plot here but be warned, this is definitely not for the faint hearted!

How the Winnie-the-Pooh: Blood and Honey Horror Movie Even Exists

Director Rhys Frake-Waterfield takes us inside how he came up with (and got away with) Winnie-the-Pooh: Blood and Honey. He also hints at where he wants to take Pooh Bear and other beloved characters next...

www.denofgeek.com

“I loved Winnie the Pooh as a kid!” exclaims Rhys Frake-Waterfield. “I think everybody does.” Indeed, most people would agree with that statement about the guileless toy bear who embarked on imaginary adventures with his fellow plush animals and human pal Christopher Robin.

But then again, not everybody is making their feature film debut with Winnie-the-Pooh: Blood and Honey. The movie stars Craig David Dowsett and Chris Cordell as Pooh and Piglet, who are now all grown up and bent on revenge against Christopher Robin (Nikolai Leon) after he left them to starve in the Hundred Acre Wood. Fueled with a hatred of all things human, the duo go on a murder spree that terrorizes a group of teens (played by Maria Taylor, Natasha Rose Mills, Amber Doig-Thorne, among others) who foolishly decide to party and the Wood.

Using pre-school children’s characters in content designed for teenagers and adults is nothing new though. In the early days of YouTube, there was the YTP trend in which creators took popular cartoons and remixed those so the characters would mention rude words. There was also that Shed 17 parody of Thomas the Tank Engine which gave the engines a horrific backstory of which I won’t go into too much detail (trust me, I repeat it is definitely not for the faint hearted!). Even TV shows genuinely designed for children can have dark themes which younger viewers often find too scary for them.

While it is clear that there is a market for content depicting children’s cartoon characters in adult scenarios, it does raise the question as to whether encouraging this practice is morally right in the first place. Of course there is the risk that children might stumble across this content believing that it is genuinely the same cartoon, but it also shows how an increasing subset of people are less willing to grow up from their childhood. Whether that’s a good or bad thing is up for debate, but I can certainly raise a bet that a significant proportion of the creators and audience of this movie have Peter Pan Syndrome. Speaking of Peter Pan, he appears to be the next character up for this treatment…

But why stop there? The director already plans to take in “all the feedback and critique” to make his next movies even more effective. In fact, he’s already announced movies about Bambi and Peter Pan.

Is anyone on here actually intending to watch this Winnie the Pooh horror movie?

 

[najaB]

While it is clear that there is a market for content depicting children’s cartoon characters in adult scenarios, it does raise the question as to whether encouraging this practice is morally right in the first place.

As long as it's not marketed to children, I can't see the moral issue. If there's a axe-wielding bear on the loose, does it matter if it's named Winnie or Wilfred?

Children shouldn't consume age-inappropriate content and adults should be able to consume whatever legal content they like. The end.

 

[Thirteen]

Peter Pan is unique in that the copyright is still with Great Osmond Street Hospital so the horror depiction likely wouldn't be able to be released here. It cannot be done yet in the USA as the copyright doesn't expire until sometime this year.

 

[johnnychips]

Peter Pan is unique in that the copyright is still with Great Osmond Street Hospital so the horror depiction likely wouldn't be able to be released here. It cannot be done yet in the USA as the copyright doesn't expire until sometime this year.

I thought the book Peter Pan was quite disturbing anyway. He is an amoral character because he can’t grow from being a little child, so a proper film rather than a Disney version might be very good.

 

[Sorcerer]

I think as long as it's not marketed to children it's totally fine once the character is in the public domain. You might not necessarily like it, and sometimes depicting beloved characters in ways that aren't in line with the character that we grew to know and love, but there is nothing inherently wrong from a moral perspective in doing something such as Winnie the Pooh as a serial killer. Also, might I ask which TV shows you think have dark themes that end up being too scary for children? On the contrary I think many shows these days talk down to children and treat them like they are stupid.

To quickly bring up the subject of Thomas the Tank Engine, in one of the original Railway Series books we had a story about Gordon feeling down over the state of the world and is put into a very depressed state when he hears about his Doncaster brothers being scrapped except Flying Scotsman. This is in line with real life when steam engines were being scrapped in favour of diesels, and in the RWS universe these engines are sentient, so in a way Gordon had just found out that his brothers have essentially become victims of systematic genocide. I doubt any modern children's TV show can get darker than that.

But ultimately no, I don't think it's morally wrong given that films have audience ratings for a reason. I've seen people talk about how they first saw Team America: World Police because their parents thought it was a children's film due to using Supermarionation that was used in the Thunderbirds TV show (which is another example of a children's TV show that had some dark elements) only to find out the hard way that it was definitely not for children when the main character is singing about everyone having AIDS within the first ten minutes. The point there is that it's up to the parents to ensure their children aren't exposed to adult content regardless of what it is.

 

[whoosh]

Personally, all the usage of Winnie-the-Pooh in Facebook memes over any and all political point scoring events (Brexit being one example) massively annoys me.

Nevermind this poisoning of what should be nice children's characters, in this new film.

Should be left alone in my opinion.

 

[najaB]

Personally, all the usage of Winnie-the-Pooh in Facebook memes over any and all political point scoring events (Brexit being one example) massively annoys me.

It might annoy you, but that's life.

Still isn't a question of morality though.

 

[GusB]

I think as long as it's not marketed to children it's totally fine once the character is in the public domain. You might not necessarily like it, and sometimes depicting beloved characters in ways that aren't in line with the character that we grew to know and love, but there is nothing inherently wrong from a moral perspective in doing something such as Winnie the Pooh as a serial killer. Also, might I ask which TV shows you think have dark themes that end up being too scary for children? On the contrary I think many shows these days talk down to children and treat them like they are stupid.

Agreed. Ultimately it's up to parents to make sure that their kids aren't watching stuff they shouldn't. Regarding "dark themes", I recall reading The Children of Cherry Tree Farm by Enid Blyton, which depicts a child going out to rough sleep in the woods with the wild man Tammylan; a situation that would ring all kinds of safeguarding alarm bells these days, but to me it was just a story.

To quickly bring up the subject of Thomas the Tank Engine, in one of the original Railway Series books we had a story about Gordon feeling down over the state of the world and is put into a very depressed state when he hears about his Doncaster brothers being scrapped except Flying Scotsman. This is in line with real life when steam engines were being scrapped in favour of diesels, and in the RWS universe these engines are sentient, so in a way Gordon had just found out that his brothers have essentially become victims of systematic genocide. I doubt any modern children's TV show can get darker than that.

Wasn't it Henry who refused to move from the tunnel because it was raining? I definitely feel like that some days!

But ultimately no, I don't think it's morally wrong given that films have audience ratings for a reason. I've seen people talk about how they first saw Team America: World Police because their parents thought it was a children's film due to using Supermarionation that was used in the Thunderbirds TV show (which is another example of a children's TV show that had some dark elements) only to find out the hard way that it was definitely not for children when the main character is singing about everyone having AIDS within the first ten minutes. The point there is that it's up to the parents to ensure their children aren't exposed to adult content regardless of what it is.

I'd forgotten about Team America - So ronery...

 

[Sorcerer]

Agreed. Ultimately it's up to parents to make sure that their kids aren't watching stuff they shouldn't. Regarding "dark themes", I recall reading The Children of Cherry Tree Farm by Enid Blyton, which depicts a child going out to rough sleep in the woods with the wild man Tammylan; a situation that would ring all kinds of safeguarding alarm bells these days, but to me it was just a story.

Can't say I'm familiar with that story personally, and I do see why it might ring some alarm bells, but it ultimately was just a story like you said. I think any reasonable parent will already make sure their child knows what not to do with strangers before they even think about doing what was done in the book.

Wasn't it Henry who refused to move from the tunnel because it was raining? I definitely feel like that some days!

Quite so, and many people seem to think that was a very dark punishment. It didn't traumatise me in the least though. Not to mention, he was let out the very next story. But yes, it is very relatable to some people to not want to go out because of the rain!

I'd forgotten about Team America - So ronery...

I'm quite partial to the scene outside the bar where he practically loses his stomach lining after having at least one too many drinks.

 

[Parjon]

The real deal is a kids story. This "reimagining" I think is just peurile with a very narrow audience.

 

[PTR 444]

I think as long as it's not marketed to children it's totally fine once the character is in the public domain. You might not necessarily like it, and sometimes depicting beloved characters in ways that aren't in line with the character that we grew to know and love, but there is nothing inherently wrong from a moral perspective in doing something such as Winnie the Pooh as a serial killer.

That makes sense.

Also, might I ask which TV shows you think have dark themes that end up being too scary for children? On the contrary I think many shows these days talk down to children and treat them like they are stupid.

Several, although dark themes are likely to be constrained to one or two episodes rather than the entire series. Thomas the Tank Engine (pre-CGI), Thunderbirds, Spongebob, Tom & Jerry just to name a few.

To quickly bring up the subject of Thomas the Tank Engine, in one of the original Railway Series books we had a story about Gordon feeling down over the state of the world and is put into a very depressed state when he hears about his Doncaster brothers being scrapped except Flying Scotsman. This is in line with real life when steam engines were being scrapped in favour of diesels, and in the RWS universe these engines are sentient, so in a way Gordon had just found out that his brothers have essentially become victims of systematic genocide. I doubt any modern children's TV show can get darker than that.

Was this story adapted for the TV series? I know there were one or two episodes involving engines escaping scrapyards, but IIRC I don’t remember any of these involving Gordon.

But ultimately no, I don't think it's morally wrong given that films have audience ratings for a reason. I've seen people talk about how they first saw Team America: World Police because their parents thought it was a children's film due to using Supermarionation that was used in the Thunderbirds TV show (which is another example of a children's TV show that had some dark elements) only to find out the hard way that it was definitely not for children when the main character is singing about everyone having AIDS within the first ten minutes. The point there is that it's up to the parents to ensure their children aren't exposed to adult content regardless of what it is.

This reminds me of when Sausage Party was released. The fact that this was a CGI animation led to many parents taking their kids to see this at the cinema, only to walk out in horror.

 

[61653 HTAFC]

This reminds me of when Sausage Party was released. The fact that this was a CGI animation led to many parents taking their kids to see this at the cinema, only to walk out in horror.

"Many" parents, really???

The BBFC print handy little logos on movie posters that indicate what age groups films are suitable for. If there were more than a tiny handful of parents who (a) didn't look at what certificate the film had; (b) didn't pick up on the obvious double-entendre in the title; and (c) weren't aware of the film-maker's previous works... well, I'm surprised they managed to successfully breed without losing an eye!

 

[najaB]

"Many" parents, really???

Many doesn't mean the same as "a large percentage" though. Even if it only happened a handful of times per cinema, that could still easily be a couple thousand instances.

 

[Thirteen]

In the case of Team America and Sausage Party, the trailer alone would indicate it's not for kids.

Cinemas aren't allowed to have anyone under 15 into these films in the UK anyway, it's different in America where someone under 17 can have an adult with them.

 

[najaB]

In the case of Team America and Sausage Party, the trailer alone would indicate it's not for kids.

That presumes that the parent saw the trailer. Many times the first thing parents see about the film is the poster on their way into the cinema.

 

[Darandio]

That presumes that the parent saw the trailer. Many times the first thing parents see about the film is the poster on their way into the cinema.

And the posters were pretty indicative it wasn't for kids as well.

• Check Out His Package
• His Cork Is Huge
• She's Got Buns, Son

Granted, not all others had phrases quite as suggestive but even a film with the title 'Sausage Party' should be pretty damn obvious.

 

[najaB]

And the posters were pretty indicative it wasn't for kids as well.

• Check Out His Package
• His Cork Is Huge
• She's Got Buns, Son

Granted, not all others had phrases quite as suggestive but even a film with the title 'Sausage Party' should be pretty damn obvious.

Agreed, but again, that assumes that they were paying attention. That said fact is that too many parents are too busy (or too lazy) to pay close enough attention to spot that.

 

[61653 HTAFC]

Many doesn't mean the same as "a large percentage" though. Even if it only happened a handful of times per cinema, that could still easily be a couple thousand instances.

A couple of times per cinema seems high. I'd expect such things to happen just a handful of times nationwide for both Sausage Party and Team America. "From the makers of South Park" is a pretty obvious indication of the content unless you've been marooned on a desert island since the early 1990s.

Agreed, but again, that assumes that they were paying attention. That said fact is that too many parents are too busy (or too lazy) to pay close enough attention to spot that.

Things like this make me wonder if you should have to pass some sort of exam before being allowed to become a parent. As I said above, it's a wonder they managed to do it without injuring themselves!

 

[Sorcerer]

Was this story adapted for the TV series? I know there were one or two episodes involving engines escaping scrapyards, but IIRC I don’t remember any of these involving Gordon.

It was adapted but only very loosely. The subject of mass scrapping of steam engines is brought up once and is concluded within about two minutes rather than being the catalyst for the first part of the story. That said the loose adaptation was more down to the Flying Scotsman model not being finished in time rather than the dark nature of the first half of the story. Even so, it was also a series 3 episode, and if their aim was to be less dark for children, then they most definitely abandoned this goal by series 5 a few years later.